A very sick dogma!

Christianity is a very broad church, encompassing the extreme fundamentalists/Biblical literalists, to the out of sight liberals who don't actually believe a deity exists. I have no problem with Christians I term 'mainstream', who go about their faith in a live and let live way, and don't seek to force it on others. I do however have a big problem with those who preach, "you must be 'saved' or burn in the fires of hell". My childhood was spoilt by having this dogma forced down my throat Sunday after Sunday. I suffered horrible nightmares in consequence. Surely a deity who sanctioned such a fate for the 'unsaved' however good they are, would be in need of serious psychiatric attention?

[psychoslice]

Well said.

Originally Posted by justme50

Christianity is a very broad church, encompassing the extreme fundamentalists/Biblical literalists, to the out of sight liberals who don't actually believe a deity exists. I have no problem with Christians I term 'mainstream', who go about their faith in a live and let live way, and don't seek to force it on others. I do however have a big problem with those who preach, "you must be 'saved' or burn in the fires of hell". My childhood was spoilt by having this dogma forced down my throat Sunday after Sunday. I suffered horrible nightmares in consequence. Surely a deity who sanctioned such a fate for the 'unsaved' however good they are, would be in need of serious psychiatric attention?

Ephesians 1:4 - For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love

For one to argue that God had looked through the corridors of time and saw who would believe and predestined us based on that "foreknowledge" 1. that person is misusing the word "foreknow" and 2. this person is claiming that God looked down upon them and chose them based on something good that he saw in them: their choice to believe. So, in essence this person is claiming to have merited God's grace. Therefore, it's no longer grace, but wages due to us for our good work.

I am not quite sure what you are saying Teehee?

Originally Posted by justme50

I am not quite sure what you are saying Teehee?

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- Not of works, lest any man should boast.

You mentioned it was by man's works, his deeds, his wages, that exemplified him unto God. Quite the contrary... God had not picked any of "us" or the elect by something they had done or would do, it is by Grace. Grace is unmerited favor, and the act of meriting favor contradicts the meaning of Grace. Even Faith is considered a gift...

Truly a deity that has sanctioned such a fate will be praised during the time of judgment by the Saints or Elect.

The deity you describe would be a sicko if it existed!

[Honza]

Originally Posted by justme50

The deity you describe would be a sicko if it existed!

Speak for yourself. What you see is often a reflection of your own state.

Originally Posted by Honza

Speak for yourself. What you see is often a reflection of your own state.

Tell me what is good about the deity depicted in the Bible, which is portrayed as more evil than any human has ever been?

[Belle]

I know plenty of good people who believe in such a dogma.

What I find strange is they don't try to convert me - but maybe they are praying for my soul.

Those that held that view also seemed to hold the view tho that you never knew what might happen in the last few moments of someone's life, and that the door was never closed.

I do believe Christianity is big enough to hold different aspects of belief, and there is room for that element as well as less harsh elements.

There is plenty of reference to a good God in the bible as well as one of anger.

Originally Posted by TeeHee

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Does God save all men by grace? If not, you must often wonder if you are one of the people who is saved or will be saved by God's grace or is it your belief in Jesus that saves you?

How about the 144,000 chosen people?