Asked to find scientific proof of...

[the_crow]

You are right.

[DoctorStrange]

Originally Posted by Charles

This is my first post here following my first message from beyond which I need help with...

I recently had a message at my local Spiritualist Centre via a medium from someone in the spirit world I didn’t know. The message was that “I should scientifically prove once and for all that there is life after death and that the spirit world exists”. This message was given to me because the spirit person knew I was interested in the sciences and should use my intelligence to find the answers.

Having had some time to digest this message and following days of “How am I supposed to do that !?” sort of thinking, it has led me to an even bigger question that I do not know if it is right to ask. This question is not intended to challenge any ones faith or belief but is a true searching question that seeks a balanced response from perhaps some of you in this community who may be able to offer some thoughts or guidance.

Also, I am not sure if the message is intended to be taken literally or interpreted in some way and applied to my own personal journey in life.
To prove it (life after death), is not the end goal for me, there needs be a by-product of the fact so I know it would be of use more than a rubber stamp in a box.


Here is the question(s):
Even if I were able to scientifically prove life after death, so what, what then ?
What would be the end product of doing so ?
How might it affect the way I and other people live their lives ?
Should I seek to prove it anyway ?

Hoping for some thought enlightening discussion on this matter.

Thanks
Charles

Unless mainstream science confirms it, people will just ignore any conclusion you come to. Mainstream science won't confirm it, unless people like Gregg Braden are fully recognised. People are being kept in ignorance by the powers that be.

If you can prove it to yourself, then fine, but be prepared that so many won't accept your conclusions. Don't spend too much time on proving something. Rather work on yourself spiritually. You will be amazed at how easy the answers become the more your work on yourself.

Originally Posted by LifeandOneness

Unless mainstream science confirms it, people will just ignore any conclusion you come to. Mainstream science won't confirm it, unless people like Gregg Braden are fully recognised. People are being kept in ignorance by the powers that be.

If you can prove it to yourself, then fine, but be prepared that so many won't accept your conclusions. Don't spend too much time on proving something. Rather work on yourself spiritually. You will be amazed at how easy the answers become the more your work on yourself.

To scientifically prove something like that it would probably involve a mathematical theory and a way to test the predictions made by the theory. Gregg Braden is free to do the same. No body is holding anyone back.

Einstein came up with a theory that scientists considered absurd and he did it while working a part time job. He wasn't actually working in research or in academia at all. The math was all there however and it made certain predictions that could be tested. When the tests worked out in his favor he became a superstar.

The same could possible be done for a spirit world, maybe, or maybe there is still a lot of physics and tech advances that need to be made. Einstein could not have come up with relativity in 10AD because we didn't have the math, fundamental physics, good telescopes, etc..

At any rate one needs to not only study spiritual material but also quantum physics, all the math, probably just get a degree.
Then begin thinking, look for an angle to come up with some type of mathematical framework for what spirit is, see how it relates to what's currently known, what predictions do the interactions make?

I don't know? This is an example of how it might look. I don't think Gregg Braden is trained enough to do this?
Like anything else it requires lots of work and preparations.

Anyone is free to get a degree, online even, then start applying your skills to metaphysical pursuits.

Originally Posted by joelr

To scientifically prove something like that it would probably involve a mathematical theory and a way to test the predictions made by the theory. Gregg Braden is free to do the same. No body is holding anyone back.

Einstein came up with a theory that scientists considered absurd and he did it while working a part time job. He wasn't actually working in research or in academia at all. The math was all there however and it made certain predictions that could be tested. When the tests worked out in his favor he became a superstar.

The same could possible be done for a spirit world, maybe, or maybe there is still a lot of physics and tech advances that need to be made. Einstein could not have come up with relativity in 10AD because we didn't have the math, fundamental physics, good telescopes, etc..

At any rate one needs to not only study spiritual material but also quantum physics, all the math, probably just get a degree.
Then begin thinking, look for an angle to come up with some type of mathematical framework for what spirit is, see how it relates to what's currently known, what predictions do the interactions make?

I don't know? This is an example of how it might look. I don't think Gregg Braden is trained enough to do this?
Like anything else it requires lots of work and preparations.

Anyone is free to get a degree, online even, then start applying your skills to metaphysical pursuits.

Math is more reliable than Myth.

The evidence Charles is our Faith.

"For those who believe and have not seen is the Kingdom of Heaven".

Jesus never wanted people to be handed all evidence as He wanted us to have faith in Him and develop our Faith in Him through prayer and asking for forgiveness of sins in addition to receiving Him.

This is the reason 'Man' have only found a few relics (some archaeology) through the Centuries yet insufficient archaeology of Jesus' existence. God removed those never to be found in the Middle East. This is my faith/belief. There have been some odd tombs or caves with Mary and Jesu writings discovered quite a few years ago.

We need to believe and change our lives 'now' before its too late for our Souls at any rate; a Priest just delivered the Homily on this tonight through his own spirituality and closeness with God. In fact more and more Christian Apostles/Clergy are delivering these Homilies and Speeches (drawn from their own one-ness in God recently and quite urgently.

I would not be waiting for evidence; too late for people to take their time wondering if they will believe in Jesus. While His World is still twirling and He has not physically arrived again; get in now and open up your Hearts to Him, reflecting upon His Life and what He gave up for us.

I have never read the book of Revelations; I have read James and some of what James has mentioned; and that was many years ago. I am not a prophesizer although every earth type event just before it occurs has happened after feeling it days, weeks and a few months prior. Major things. I feel this is going to occur when we least expect it and I pray that all people Souls do believe in Jesus/God for their own Eternal saving/sakes. With few left here or if any at all, whom are going to pray for the Souls not saved or the Souls going to Purgatory? At least now with Christians praying for the Holy Souls in Purgatory our Loved ones and Souls we haven't met are getting out, through Jesus Divine Love and Mercy through us praying. What later after Jesus arrives here?

I got these things through my own closeness with God and Our Lady Mary last year, that if we do not all pray to open up our Hearts and believe in Jesus quickly, then little hope for when Jesus does arrive again as the (last) time upon His Earth. This through prayer.

If's are an illusion. If we had evidence. We do have evidence and many many Holy Signs Jesus/God has left us; His Earth and Creation for one. Thinking to put most of the people with fairer skins/complexions into cooler countries, people with olive and darker skins/complexions into the hotter countries originally. The polar bears into the cooler countries and the list progresses.

Think about it.

Originally Posted by StaroftheSea

If's are an illusion. If we had evidence. We do have evidence and many many Holy Signs Jesus/God has left us; His Earth and Creation for one. Thinking to put most of the people with fairer skins/complexions into cooler countries, people with olive and darker skins/complexions into the hotter countries originally. The polar bears into the cooler countries and the list progresses.

Think about it.

I thought about it and evolution works fine to explain skin color.
We know dark people migrated north and over time their skin lightened.

Why can't science and theism be compatible? Theism didn't die when it had to succeed to the Earth not being the center of the universe and the sun not revolving around the earth. Giving way to evolution isn't going to hurt it either.

The thing you say about faith seems incomplete. It's great you have your faith but it's egotistical to think that it makes your group special because many groups have strong faith. All religions have strong faith in their own particular ideas. Atheists, non-believers, spiritualists, whoever, have plenty of members who have rock-solid faith in their movement.
So if faith is the evidence then every belief system is equally true. Obviously that makes no sense so faith is completely arbitrary.

I agree with your idea of what if you could prove it - so what, what then? And in all honesty, I don't think we're meant to know or we'd likely know by now. I believe we should live each life as if it's the only one we have and there isn't anything afterwards, (although I believe we go on indefinitely). With all the NDE that are recorded and written about in books, these beings aren't even taken seriously by many. If a person's belief(s) is/are SO deeply ingrained, even actual 100% proof will not change their ability to shift in their belief(s).

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Charles

Here is the question(s):
Even if I were able to scientifically prove life after death, so what, what then ?
What would be the end product of doing so ?
How might it affect the way I and other people live their lives ?
Should I seek to prove it anyway ?

Hoping for some thought enlightening discussion on this matter.

Thanks
Charles

1. My own feeling is this. If the subject interests you and you are curious, and something you want it'll make you happy. If you're looking to change something as a scientist it would be one of changing ignorance.

2. The end product of course, cause and effect apply. You know there will be, some positive some negative.

3. We don't know until that happens, probably because we don't know ourselves and don't know society. It certainly would test us.

4. Should you deny yourself, if available and a field open to study, I would. There are others trying to answer the question right now. One could author a book or make it a career. Should you, it's up to you.

[guthrio]

Respectfully, you will NOT find find the slightest scintilla of proof, scientific or otherwise, for life after death. Why ?

Because there is ONLY Life. There is no "after life"....exactly like there is no "after-you" when you have walked through one door into another room. You are yet YOU...being YOU in another room.

Lest you be tempted to dismiss this post as "That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

....I offer the following as objective, credible, proof whose authenticity can be explicitely verified by the keenest and most rigorous of criteria: your own body, comprised of elements whose beginnings within stars were birthed from the beginning of the observed universe....to form the abode that you see in the mirror every day, since its inception as the union of sperm and egg contributed by your progenitors, and theirs, from antiquity. And that's just YOU !. Not to mention ANY or ALL the forms Life takes, whether we, in our own myopia, deign to call these forms "organic" or "inorganic". What's the difference between the "inorganic" atom of carbon that was forged within some star so ancient, its light hasn't even REACHED earth....and an atom of carbon bonded to two atoms of "inorganic" oxygen (carbon dioxide) that you breathe out of your "organic" body with EVERY breath without you taking the slightest notice of its exit from your lungs at ANY time ? No difference between those atoms, AT ALL ! Yet we "seek" proof of Life AFTER death...without realizing that our present form of inquiry (scientific "proofing") is too blunt an instrument to even APPROACH asking the right question !

Life is not just the time you see the plant, or the tree, or the animal, or the person, or the planet, or the star, or universes, in bloom. Life is what causes these forms to become what they are in what appears to us as an ever changing, never-ending succession.

How do you open a door?

.....by intending to proceed through it....and then doing so.

.....or by allowing whatever is hidden from your knowledge on the other side of it, to be seen or known. Whatever the door represents to you, you can always perceive it as an opportunity to discover what its opening will reveal....about you.

Please consider the testimony of one who describes EXACTLY the very experience OF coming from the "other room" in this description of Paramhansa Yogananda's reunion with his resurrected guru, Sri Yukteswar, who had returned to Earth, for a brief interlude with his former disciple, from a higher vibratory sphere called Hiranyaloka. Here's an excerpt from the second source below:

"O Master", Yogananda said, "I was grieving so deeply about your death!" "Ah, wherein did I die? Isn't there some contradiction?" said Sri Yukteswar, eyes twinkling with love and amusement. Sri Yukteswar goes on to say to his former disciple, "You were only dreaming on earth; on that earth you saw my dream-body. Later you buried that dream-image. Now my finer fleshly body--which you behold and are even now embracing rather closely!--is resurrected on another finer dream-planet of God. Someday that finer dream-body and finer dream-planet will pass away; they too are not forever. All dream-bubbles must eventually burst at a final wakeful touch. Differentiate, my son Yogananda, between dreams and Reality!"

Surprising, isn't it ?

"Is life just one "dream"? And could death be awaking from this "dream" in which we call life?"

"Row, row row your boat gently down the stream...
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...Life is but a dream..."

....from which we will awaken to discover that we are yet....the Selves we have always been, on the other side of ALL the doors we pass through on our eternal journey. We live in an eternally spacious PRESENT in which there are no beginnings or endings....

....just doors to an infinity of other rooms we pass through, as ourselves !

So Who ARE We....really ???

As author Baird Spalding says in the first reference, ”Becoming aware of yourself as a spiritual being, offspring of an infinite spiritual system and one with all the powers and capacities within that system, is the very essence of attainment. To grow from the present state of awareness of himself as a material being and into the consciousness that he is a spiritual being contains the full secret of man's attainment.' Man's nature cannot be reversed for he always remains a spiritual being. He can only reverse his notion of himself. Instead of doing this, he should reverse his mistaken idea that he is a material being and retain the truth that he is a spiritual being created in the image and likeness of God."

The aforementioned excerpt ALONE should hint that you are, as an immortal, omnipresent Spiritual Being, CERTAINLY MORE than you have been taught, and INFINITELY MORE than you may have thought.

The entirety of this post is about discovering the Truth of yourself, by yourself, and FOR yourself, regardless whether one is called Christian, or another faith's name, or no name whatsoever. When you discover the Truth for yourself.....(that's just been WAITING for you)...then you will no longer need to substitute the Truth you've found with the doubts (false perceptions) you temporarily put in its place.

Hope this, and the sources below, help you answer your questions.

I invite you to take a look at them both...

The 6-volume set of books by Baird Spalding changed my life and how I see EVERYTHING. I strongly believe they will have a similar effect on yours. You'll see why (especially by the time you get to page 21 of Vol 1) !

Equally life-changing is the second source entitled "Autobiography of a Yogi" Take a good look at the full description of Sri Yukteswar's Resurrection testimony in source below...

1st Reference: Life and Teaching of the Masters of the Far East Volumes 1 - 6 by Baird T. Spalding

2nd Reference: w w w.crystalclarity.com/yogananda/chap43.php