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Originally Posted by Starjumper7
There are a couple of deeper aspects of this. As you have mentioned, it doesn't do much good for people without the proper experience to hear something that is beyond them. Of course, they will think they then understand it anyway and are then experts. It's because overly mental people confuse mental ideas with real experience ... because that's all they ahve to work with in life.
However, if you can allude to things that they can't relate to in a way that can get through to them, in a way that lets them know that there is something greater out there, then that can serve as useful motivation.
As it say, those who are without desires can see the mystery, but those with desires can only see the manifestations. However, there needs to be some desire instilled in a potential seeker to work to arrive at a desire-less state. This catch 22 situation is described as darkness within darkness.
A similar sentiment to the one quoted is the one which says: "The sage teaches without speaking." Some people wonder, how can this be?
Well, the best way for people to learn is my example. You can tell people to be good till you're blue in the face and it hardly does any good, but if you are a shining example, then they may see the benefit of imitation. It's kind of like telling people to conserve gasoline, they won't do a thing about it till you raise prices.
Another thing about teaching by example, without speaking, is that sages are nei kung masters, and nei kung is taught without speaking. So the sage teaches by leading an ethical life and teaching nei kung. However some of them delight in telling ghost stories.
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yeah words get in the way when trying to teach about something like the Tao! Very confusing especially in the english language... much better to just sit still and if someone decides to want to watch they might get something out of it lol! That is better anyway, all sorts of control issues with words, the speaker kinda 'owns' the thoughts. So letting people alone alleviates that as well.
yeah my reading of the TTC has it talking about 'ideals' rather than 'virtue' the way it is commonly translated. But 'virtue' could be described as 'sticking to an ideal' so the two are related anyway.
Anywho when you see sorta what the Tao is like, you start making mental maps (because people always do that lol). That is kind of like, making an 'ideal' for what it should be like.
For a long time you might be using desire to head toward this ideal that you see. Which in part for Tao becomes a path toward lessening the very desires that keep you going along the path? So as always there is paradox involved. But Lao Tzu did say there comes a time, when you drop the thoughts about the ideal and just kinda step out into the mystery without it.