[inavalan]

Just because you asked ...

To keep track of the points you raised, I'll interleave my comments, with no intention of being argumentative. I just try to explain some of my views, with no intention of convincing anybody of their validity. Considering the way I arrived to them, there is also no possible intellectual counter-argument, or dogma/guru yardstick to measure validity.

Originally Posted by ketzer

Hi inavalan

Thanks for the reply, though I am not sure I entirely understood. Anyway, to the extent I did, some possibly analogous concepts for that sand box might be the eastern mystic's Akashic Records or the physicist/philosopher's Block Universe.

The Akashic Records is supposed to be a repository of information. The sandbox I used as a simplified model is a framework.

Originally Posted by ketzer

The path we trace through that spacetime sandbox might be thought of as what physics would call a "world line" through spacetime, and if asked they might say 'you are that world line'.

I wouldn't say I am the world line, but that that is a path through a probability multidimensional space-time space (sounds weird, but it is my best effort to be clear).

Originally Posted by ketzer

Of course, as far as I understand it, that is a line traced through one "world", and if Everette is right, then there are perhaps infinitely other possible worlds in which one is drawing world lines at the same time.

That sandbox isn't a world, it is a framework. Worlds / realities are those created by each one of the participants in that framework (not only humans).

I'm not sure what is your concept of time, be it same or simultaneous. The way I see it, the clock time (experienced by those in the framework / sandbox, in which it is just a coordinate in the time-sandbox that includes the alternate probable choices) vs. the psychological time (experienced by those that are outside the sandbox), is similar to the dream time vs. the clock time.

I don't subscribe to the blanket statement that everything happens simultaneously. It doesn't.

But, the ripples of the events that happen now, the so called point of power, propagate instantaneously through he space-time sandbox / framework, both through probable futures and probable pasts.

Originally Posted by ketzer

Yet, this Seth multi-me concept makes me wonder if all those other worlds are all that separate, or if they are more mixed up together in that sandbox of yours.

I don't subscribe to Seth's concepts as they were channeled by Jane Roberts. I just find that several of them are identical or similar to those I have. I believe that the differences result from the distortions Jane introduced, and those I introduced in the channeled material. Jane had a poor technical background, and was influenced by her understanding of various religious / spiritual concepts. Her early and painful demise, and her an her husband earthly difficulties were proof that she wasn't able to fully understand and apply whatever she received from Seth.

Originally Posted by ketzer

Perhaps your sandbox analogy is more relevant metaphor, particularly if we are moving through that sandbox in accordance with the arrow of time. Starting on one side of the sandbox, and following that arrow to the other, there are very few paths that could have gotten us to the grain of sand we are on at the start, but countless paths to hop from grain to grain to get to the other side.

We don't go through the physical framework / sandbox from one age to the other. Each incarnation can start in any space-time point of it. You can have a life now, next one 10,000 years ago, right now, or 1 million years form now.

Even through each life, we go only one time direction because of our concept of what we can. I know it sounds at least intriguing.

Originally Posted by ketzer

So in that sense there is much more information and entropy in the direction we call 'future', but much less in the direction we call past. Then as we progress through that spacetime sandbox, always following that arrow of time, the number of potential paths that could have lead to the grain we are on from the side we started from grows, and the number of potential paths of grain hoping left to us to get to the far side diminishes accordingly.

So we might see, entropy always increasing in the past but decreasing in the future. We don't see it that way because of course when we look back our memory tells us that we only took the one path to get to the grain of sand we are on, but perhaps that is not so. Perhaps, just like one of Feynman's particles, we actually take every possible path to get there, at the same time, experiencing all possible events that could have happened along the way, and our 'memory' is just telling us we only took the most probable one.

Not really. Our perception of the past, our memories aren't fixed; they change continuously, as the whole state of the sandbox changes. We don't go through all possibilities, not even probabilities; we just select one, then go to the next choice. Our choice's ripples, as I wrote, propagate instantaneously through entire sandbox.

A good illustration of this is that if you talked to the surviving personality of a person whom you knew in this life, you'll find out that his version of the events you lived together is different than the one you recall, or that the "public records" have. This because the past changed in the sandbox, but that person's memories got frozen in the clock-time moment he died.

Originally Posted by ketzer

That would fall more in line with the Seth idea.

I don't think Seth's idea is what you described; but I can say that from what I read, Jane and her husband didn't understand Seth's concept of time. They just took it as being simultaneous, which doesn't mean anything, and it is incorrect.

Originally Posted by ketzer

Thinking about (as best as I can understand it) Shannon's information theory, entropy is analogous with information, and so perhaps if Seth is right, at a ?higher level?, 'multi-me' is living all those world lines at once, and amassing all that information in that me sandbox as I go from one side to the other, from birth to death. From that conceptual perspective, multi-me is not just one world line, but a network of world lines all leading to through and beyond the grain of sand I am on.

If I remember correctly, entropy is a measure of the disorder in a system, and can reflect the amount of useful information, it isn't really analogous with information, but that is irrelevant.

Not sure what you mean by "multi-me", but I believe it doesn't fit in my description of time above. From clock-time perspective you can say that there are incarnations of you all over the place in the sandbox; possibly some of them in the same clock-time moment, in different incarnations. But that doesn't matter, because incarnations come one after another from the perspective of the psychological time, which is the kind of time outside the sandbox, where we incarnate from.

Also, each incarnation creates its own reality / universe, in which only the creator is primary creation, and all the other "components" are secondary creations, a.k.a. "not the real ones", "copies" (not identical to the reference). My subconscious can perceive everything in my reality, but only the primary creations in (all) the other realities created by all the other participants.

Originally Posted by ketzer

Now let that arrow of time float about like the needle on a compass, and the possibilities of multi-me experiences become almost endless for just that one me sandbox. I can start at any grain along any wall, (or perhaps even in the middle), and pick a direction from my compass, and move to the others side, accumulating all those paths and all that information as I go.

The difference between what you and I say here, is that I say that you, as in an incarnated you, can take only one path in each life, and it is irrelevant what other incarnations of you did or will do, both from clock-time point of view, and from psychological time point of view.

And yes, you can start an incarnational life in the physical framework in any space-time-probability point, and you can go only toward whatever seems as future, because you believe that it is the only possibility.

Originally Posted by ketzer

The upshot is that Mr. Murry doesn't really live his groundhog days sequentially, but does so all at once, and is perhaps only examining them as if they were individual sequential events.

In the movie, the weather-man experiences those lives successively, as we spectators see them too, like from the psychological time perspective. Each repeat of that day is happening approximately in the same coordinate in the sandbox, bot not at the same time, not concurrently.

Otherwise the movie metaphor is pretty good, excepting the cheesy reason for which he has to go through it. Even the fact that some of the other character react as if they have memories of past days encounters may be acceptable, because that is the weather-man's perception.

Wouldn't it be nice if we consciously knew, as he did, all that we learned in our previous incarnations, and knew that we are indestructible so not afraid, even if we had to listen every morning to Cher's husband singing the same song?

Originally Posted by ketzer

Of course, there are still countless other sandboxes to explore so I would still, relatively speaking, know nothing.

If you mean other reality frameworks than our physical, I agree.

Too long. I hesitated to post it.