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Originally Posted by Greenslade
Hi there Dazza
You can be conscious that you have the thought of I am - if you're lucky - but consciousness is not the thought of I am. You can become I am itself beyond all thought but that's a very different beastie, and then you can become conscious of that. CAN become conscious of it, because having the thought and being conscious of having the thought are two different beasties. Thoughts are 'objects', they have properties and values and everything else that gives them existence within our minds. Similarly with realisations, they seem to come from nowhere but the unconscious, to the conscious mind, is 'nowhere'. So no, it doesn't come from self or what most people think self is and this is why there's so much confusion - if people don't know what self is they don't know themselves, all they know is they have a belief but they don't realise that.
They are not conscious that the self and the belief of what self is are not the same, and if you're going to get Spiritual on this the self is a kara or 'invented thing' that is their Ahamkara - Aham being 'I'. People invent definitions to suit themselves but they become the invention rather than the self they have redefined.
Consciousness is epiphenomenal, which means it is beyond cause, effect and every other phenomenon. It doesn't need the thought of being conscious, it exists in its own right - sorta kinda because words aren't much use. The thought of consciousness and what it might be is not consciousness, consciousness becomes conscious that there is a thought of what consciousness is so it's 'above' the mental processes. It's like there's another 'layer' above. Realisations are part of the mental processes, 'technically' they're the outpourings of the unconscious mind that we become conscious of.
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Hey Scottie,
The thing is that peeps keep on saying what consciousness is when it isn’t realised .
All one perhaps has to do in this instance is understand how one can be conscious and aware that I AM is .
By what means?
Mind? self, Self, Consciousness, awareness etc etc ..
Some say consciousness is all there is and is also of the mind and beyond, of self and beyond but it can be simplified into there is only what you are .
Consciousness is not the thought of I AM you say but that’s similar to someone saying I AM not my mind-body .
The thing is that we know context is key and having a foundation in place that is sound has to be paramount .
In a way when we speak about Consciousness is not the thought of I AM but without Consciousness there is no thought and no one has realised Consciousness to be a thought of I AM or not .
It really in my eyes is mental gymnastics based upon an unknown foundation of what Consciousness actually is .
You are an advocate of the perceiver and the perceived are the same, so how is the perceiver and the perceived experiencing that in regards to Consciousness .
It’s either all Consciousness or all mind that what you are experiences in order to be aware of that experience .
Now what you are is not separated from mind or Consciousness so equally said you are mind, you are Consciousness, and you are the the thought of that too …
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Originally Posted by Greenslade
sometimes helps to think about what we are conscious of and having consciousness itself but that's for the mind's understanding. Because when everything has dropped away, what is left?
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It's all mindful understanding, that's the bottom line and that's what is required to understand when realisations are being thrown around ..
From an understanding of there is only what you are then there can only be that when self has dissolved or fallen away, when mind and the world has been transcended ..
Now what is left beyond all this cannot be realised to be this and not that and that doesn't reveal what Consciousness is what Sanskrit term means and relates too lol .
The arguments that occur thru peeps speaking in Sanskrit terms when renouncing the world to be illusory and such likes is barmy ..
x dazzle x