[ameliorate]

Originally Posted by zastrakoza

I apologize for my poor communication skills. Your gentle words are teaching me how much work I have yet to do to be able to communicate effectively. It does surprise me that I communicate the exact opposite of what I am trying to say!

I am saying the integrated person is entirely realistic. My definition is not idealistic at all. Am I correct in understanding that to you idealistic means not real or not possible? Why would anyone strive to do the impossible? We are in total agreement on pragmatism. I am in my physical body and integrating all the physical and non physical aspects of myself in order to manifest fully as I am. This is not a theoretical exercise and I am deadly intent on expressing as completely integrated. I am reaching out for help and support in this endeavor and also to learn as much as possible from those ahead of me in this transformation. Another way of expressing completely integrated may be fully aligned. I believe this term may be more common, although I am not sure.

As to vices and judgments, I do not say that humans can't find themselves somewhere along the path of incompleteness, which would be a gray area or an area of learning. But I do believe that if we are not judging ourselves or others, then there are no vices. If we are not in judgment of ourselves, we have no vices. Anything that can be considered a vice is only born out of condemnation. If there is no judgment, then there is nothing that could be considered other than right. Love does not condemn and therefore sees no wrong. This is not theoretical. This is real.

We are using the word 'vice' as a generic representative of anything we do not love. So, if I do not love the shape of my nose, if I see it as anything less than it should be, that would be a judgment and in this case a vice. (now I am using this as an example only because I actually like my nose. It is the same one I see on my Dad's face, which seems appropriate to me.)

And in this thread we are discussing self love, not so much the love of others. The issue of self love is in learning to not judge the self. I see no ego in self love, because the ego is not the self. Ego 'loves' the self is a way of saying that the ego does not know love. It only knows itself. It promotes illusion. If we do not see ourselves as divinely perfect, then we are as I am...in training to discover those ideas that are out of alignment with perfection, and transmute them into love. Eventually we are all completely integrated into love. We express as love and we do not experience judgment.

You have a beautiful heart. I love its gentleness. That is very evident and I can feel its warmth and compassion. It seems we are more in agreement than not on the level of heart frequency and it is only this inadequate language I struggle with. Sorry for the many words! I am only trying to make myself better understood. This exchange has been a pleasure and a learning opportunity for me. Thank you.

Thank you for your helpful clarifications and compliments! I am 71 so it's been a long road to arrive at where I now am. I agree we share a certain resonance on the 'heart frequency' which is a joy to find!

Yes, you are right. To me idealistic = theoretically, i.e. not attainable but I see that my view of this may now need to be adjusted.

As previously mentioned, whereas we may be able to overcome judgement, discernment is still desirable I feel. We may not call what we have a vice, e.g. prone to being impatient but it exists as a trait anyway! An undesirable trait if we are on the road to personal growth and wish to reach our potential so needs to be acknowledged and 'worked on'.

As to being divinely perfect, well - I am a realistic optimist, i.e. prefer to see things as they are (wherever possible) but take a positive spin from this. So I acknowledge that I am 'in training' but closer than I was, say, a decade ago. That said, as previously mentioned, I have high self esteem (able mostly to love who I am as a person).

I hope Honza has found our interactions interesting and, if not, that it is not off track at least!