[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Namaste Moonglow

The more I've spent time looking objectively at Spirituality and not waxing lyrical about it, the closer to psychology it becomes. At one time I was quite excited at being Spiritual, being on the forums and engaged in all this esoteric stuff but after a while that all died. I think the turning point was when I was building a website of all things to do, and this particular one was giving me problems. To understand the problem better I thought to myself 'What's in it for me?' I asked to same about Spirituality. I also couldn't figure out why any Spirit would choose to Live a 'useless' existence. If we chose our existence here as in Karmic Obligations/Life's Purpose and we were 'here to learn the lessons' then what of people who simply can't process Spirituality because of their genes? Does having 'Spirituality-capable' genes mean that some people are born more equal than others? Does that mean the people who are not Spiritual are doomed to purgatory for eternity?

Strangely enough, Self Actualisation is one of the 'cornerstones' of Spirituality and it's also top of Maslo's Hierarchy of Needs - and Spirituality also fulfils a few more. How much is 'raising your vibrations' and Spiritual development the same as Pavlov's Theory? I went into both of those while I was training the trainers, it was a part of their curriculum for understanding personal development.

The real paradox is is that while people are busting their chops to become 'Spiritually advanced' everything that can happen, is happening or will ever happen is happening because there is no time. So, while we're trying to advance Spiritually we're already there, but we've chosen to forget that so we can feel better about working on our Spiritual advancement.

Being Spiritual is a self-image just the same as anything else in the 'real world' and people identify with Spirituality and being Spiritual just the same as they identify with being a football fan. The only difference is that Spiritual consciousness is 'higher grade' and more important than any other. Allegedly.

It's all layers, as Raziel there points out.

But how much of any development - personal. Spiritual or any other - depends on you being you and me being me? If there was no you and no me we couldn't have this conversation, you wouldn't be able to see you because I'm not here to reflect you and there wouldn't be a you to reflect. The way things are gives us a good, solid feeling that you are you and I am me, and therefore we can interact. It's a process of individuation that's going on, not one of unity - we came from unity.

You can't run away from who and what you are, although many would rather not look at certain aspects.

In Spirituality, there being no time is a lovely concept and something to trot out when you want to sound Spiritual, yet still the conversations go to their being a concept of time. If there is no time then what happens to Spiritual development, karma, Past Lives????? Wrinkles?? Nobody has explained why I have wrinkles if there is no time.

Namaste Greenslade,

Suppose a way to look at is if it is created in ones mind, then can be subjective. For another seems to have another view point or may find similarities, but one has his/her own twist on it.

Who created what is viewed as "Spirituality" anyways? Humans did, didn't they?
Finding connection with that which is felt in its presence. The vibration/energy felt. The wondering and for some realization there is more then what is thought. Goes beyond just thinking about it, but living it, with it, of it. How to describe that which is beyond the words.

Much like you. I have a certain image of you that forms in my mind through the interactions here. Bu, I can wager that meeting you in the flesh would expand the outlook much greater. Yes sense a personality and energy with in the words, but sure there is much more to the man behind the words.

So, I see the spiritual side of us. It doesn't choose this one is better then that or ask what one believes. The true ( for lack of better word at present) Spirit embraces all, as I feel it. Maybe a concept to some, but do they feel what I do or you do?

What you have experienced, or anyone else for that matter is objective to the individuals. It was and is lived. To another subjective if not or not understood.

Can one observe the "ego"? Or what may relate to what it represents to that person? I don't feel it is a question in regards to the individual existing, but more into how one may or may not relate to life and/or Spirit, or anything else, and the individual him/her self.

It all seems to seep into the general consciousness. If so, then it exists and it is in some form or another. One can relate or not, but this does not make what is placed there null and void. Time included.

High/low are on the same scale and depends where one is at and may feel that seems to determine what one emits. If Spirit was so high that it required years and years of practice to attune to it, think many would not even have a concept of its presence, much less be aware enough to even notice something.

But that is just my outlook at present. If desired to be in touch with the divine, stop looking for it and take notice. As one sees it, feels it in what ever manner there it is reflecting back. If that's ego talking, I take it

It is as one creates to be for oneself. Yes Spirituality is just another identity if seen that way. But it is not all that has developed, I like the word Life. For that is what everyone is experiencing and developing with in.