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Originally Posted by Lord_Viskey
Please do not take this as a form of "grilling the repondant".
I have a sincere interest in looking at how everyone percieves these phenomenon;
But now for clarification sake, I must go through a "process of elimination" Invalan:
According to your last couple of posts:
1. You've never heard of soul flight (post #2; line 1)
2. further, you normally associate nothing to the term "soul" (post #4; line 1), unless it pertains to something "larger than the self alone" (post #4; line 6).
3. But, (apparently) for my sake, you speculate that it probably has to do with a dream state.
4. Astral "projection" can and does occur (post #2; lines 2& 3) -
5. But it is not a matter of "energy" -
6. In fact, the term "energy" can only be associated (exclusively, by your standards) to physical realm phenomena (post #4; line 3) -
7. which by elimination (comparatively speaking), must exclude any definition of "energy" being attached to the mental phenomena of (the following is what I ascribe to as "mind energy") :
a. an act of consciousness;
b. an act of will;
c. nor an act of desire
8. Which leads to my understanding you as saying that any astral state phenomena occurs as a "point of awareness" (post #4; line 3) -
9. without any "mind energy" being applied to attain this state (comparatively speaking).
10. Now, with a "point of awareness", not being in any "point of space or time" (post #4; line 5),
11. and it cannot be a location (time or space), must relegate this entire phenomenon off [to the reality] of it as being only a "quality" (of mind condition).
So, my questions are these :
1. Without the application of energy to attain astral travel, how does one attain any "quality" of being within a mental state that can be referred to as "a point of awareness" ?
2. If astral projection cannot be attained by the exertion of "energy", and it cannot be in any "location", what distinguishes one's ability to attain such a state of mind?
3. If there are no "road maps" to attain this state (it cannot be reached, nor "pointed to", as in a "location" in space-time & it cannot be accessed through the exertion of conscious energy), how does information transfer between one who can do it & one who cannot do it?
For everyone else who comes accross this post, I'd still like to know your opinions too, on the comparisons between "soul flight" & "astral projection".
Please join in. If the conversation gets too complicated, there's still private messages, aren't there?
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Not sure where you intend to go with this exchange, but I'll reply:
1. yes
2. yes
3. no; I don't make such association.
4. yes; I define it as projection of your awareness onto a non-physical plane that isn't your dream / imagination plane
5. yes
6. yes; this is how I use it
7. yes; I don't use the formulation "thought energy";
I also don't use "mental phenomena" either; a,b,c formulations seem a little awkward to me; I don't even understand what an "act of consciousness" means; "act of ..." seems like the "action as result of ..."; willing, desiring don't seem acts to me
8. I don't know what an "astral state phenomena" is; I call "point of awareness" exactly what the formulation suggests, no other interpretation; it is the basic element of individualization
9. as there is no "mind energy" ...; also I don't use "astral state" excepting as a place holder when talking to somebody and not caring about accuracies
10. not sure what you infer; the "point of awareness" is whatever incarnates into the physical
11. I don't understand the whole phrase; what is it about? what phenomenon? what quality? what is a "mind condition"? ...
1. There is no "travel" in astral travel. There isn't a mental state either. It is a change of focus of the "point of awareness" into another range of the consciousness.
2. Everybody has the ability to consciously change their focus of awareness, and everybody does it unconsciously all the time: imagination, daydreaming, rem- and non-rem-dreaming. This change can be gradual, continuous, or can be a step-change.
3. Not sure what you're asking. What transfer are you referring to? The space and time that we perceive are part of the physical plane only. Even on the physical plane they aren't the way we perceive them; we live a counterproductive misunderstanding of those concepts.
What is "soul"? What is "soul flight"? What is "astral"? What does "project" when "astral projecting"?
PS: Long and convoluted dialogue, so I haven't reviewed it, nor my post.