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Originally Posted by Altair
Debrah,
1] Carnivore animals are generally smarter, but sure you can find many herbivores that are 'smart' too, it's just that carnivores stand out more and they have to based on how they survive in this world. Elephants do happen to be an exception if we look at the animal species that are considered quite intelligent.
2] Banning animal sacrifice is not a command to be a vegan, or is it?
Do you recognize that people in many ancient civ's lived mostly on grains (and a bit of veg and fruit, few meats) due to what was available? For most it did not had anything to do with being a vegan or vegetarian by choice. Many would eat mostly plants, true, but would not deny themselves of a fish or a chicken when it was available. We only know of such clear abstinence choices in the history of India (starting with the upanishad and Buddhist periods, as even Vedic traditions did eat cows) and with some Christian sects later on. You name a fair number of cultures that all come from the same geographical area (India) so you make it appear as if vegan culture was some kind of big thing in the ancient world! Whether Pythagoreans were (all) vegetarians is still not clear.
Most of the time people in the ancient world simply ate grains as the staple, and produced fruit and vegetables also. Milk was part of the diet in many ancient civilizations and meat occasionally (more if you were wealthier). This is still true today if you go to many Muslim countries for example. The poorer people eat less meat. Do you think they consciously choose to live a vegan lifestyle? Why don't we see your argument at display in today's world with the poor in Egypt, Indonesia or Afghanistan?
3] There is also the issue here of what classifies meat as 'meat'. Throughout history there have been taboos on certain meats, but not on fish (again, excluding India). It wasn't unheard of for early Christians to avoid eating land animals, but still eat fish (and drinking milk, so no veganism).
4] I was confusing gorillas with monkeys and chimpanzees concerning egg consumption. Point taken.
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Of course poor people ate less meat because the kings and nobles of 'ancient times' reserved the right to hunt for themselves all too often. As for the poor today, well, humanity has instilled the idea that meat consumption is required so why are you surprised that the poor in Egypt, etc., are clamouring for meat too? Habituation and socialization has brought that about.
In looking for a little more info on Pythagorus, I came across the following:
'.....Pythagoras and his many followers practiced vegetarianism for several reasons, mainly due to religious and ethical objections. Pythagoras believed all living beings had souls. Animals were no exception, so meat and fish were banished from his table.....'
https://www.history.com/news/beans-a...-vegetarianism
As for the Japanese emperor, it was for practical (as well as some religious reasons) that meat from livestock was banned. I should say I also learned today that they still continued to eat fish and other seafood. But because Japan has limited land, it was decided for about 1200 years that they wouldn't use livestock or eat them either.
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/japan-meat-ban