Greetings..
I said: "
That the originators of Taoist thinking chose 'the way' so as to avoid codification and ritualization", to which you reply:
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Originally Posted by Prokopton
... then it appears the essence of Tao is freedom from 'ritualization', and ritual in general is not a word I've never seen you use positively.
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The choice of the word, "Tao", meaning 'way' or 'path', as a 'description' of the understandings gained from direct experiences, as has been related to me, was chosen in part, to avoid codification or ritualization.. not because freedom from ritualization is the essence of Tao, but.. because of the likelihood that ritualization will distort the understanding of Tao, and therefore understanding its 'essence'. I'm not sure that your interpretation of my use of the word 'ritual' is accurate, or even 'useful' in this context..
What i said: "
More than the observations, it is the preconceptions and intentions that result in usefulness.. and, if there is a 'heresy', it is in the usefulness or lack thereof of a method..".. and, in order to get the flavor of the intended communication, it is helpful to keep the phrasing intact.. you replied to the first portion of the phrase, as follows:
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Originally Posted by Prokopton
Please elaborate if you feel like it -- which preconceptions and intentions are useful in your opinion, or result in usefulness, and which don't? (Or according to your opinion of Taoist opinion?) Personally I don't think preconceptions or intentions always determine usefulness, nor do I think that it is possible to say which preconceptions and intentions are bound to result in usefulness and which are not. (Although as always with the Tao, we can notice patterns.)
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Preconceptions and intentions result in varying degrees of usefulness, the point of the phrase is that 'usefulness' is not a valid criteria for 'clarity' or for a method.. ultimately, intention and preconception distort the clarity of awareness that reveals actual usefulness.. aside from that, i am reminded that "Tao is formless", inspiring a curiosity as to why you say "
Although as always with the Tao, we can notice patterns."..
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Originally Posted by Prokopton
There isn't, as I said. Usefulness or lack is simply that -- although extremely important of course, it doesn't need to have a connotation of heresy, which implies 'only one correct way' or deviation therefrom. I think we probably agree that the idea of 'only one correct way' is not really at home in the Taoist tradition.
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Heresy, is to vary from the accepted doctrine.. there does seem to be a certain 'Doctrine of Tao', as in "
always with Tao, we can notice patterns", and.. where there is an accepted doctrine (preconception), there is the potential for 'heresy'.. such that heresy, IF it exists, would be to establish usefulness as criteria for a 'method', when.. Tao, is simply 'the way things are', a condition not dependent on usefulness or a method, but.. which when seen or experienced clearly, Tao reveals which methods 'are' useful..
Be well..