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Originally Posted by Prokopton
Pejorative use of 'ritual'
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Originally Posted by TzuJanLi
you are assuming intent not present
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Well I may be mistaking you, if you say that:
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That the originators of Taoist thinking chose 'the way' so as to avoid codification and ritualization
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... then it appears the essence of Tao is freedom from 'ritualization', and ritual in general is not a word I've never seen you use positively.
Still, everything else you say is certainly true. The origins of the Tao seem to some scholars now to be as much shamanic as philosophical, but as for what Taoists (or I) would call 'Tao', your definition is spot on, as I say.
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More than the observations, it is the preconceptions and intentions that result in usefulness..
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Please elaborate if you feel like it -- which preconceptions and intentions are useful in your opinion, or result in usefulness, and which don't? (Or according to your opinion of Taoist opinion?) Personally I don't think preconceptions or intentions always determine usefulness, nor do I think that it is possible to say which preconceptions and intentions are bound to result in usefulness and which are not. (Although as always with the Tao, we can notice patterns.)
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if there is a 'heresy', it is in the usefulness or lack thereof of a method..
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There isn't, as I said. Usefulness or lack is simply that -- although extremely important of course, it doesn't need to have a connotation of heresy, which implies 'only one correct way' or deviation therefrom. I think we probably agree that the idea of 'only one correct way' is not really at home in the Taoist tradition.
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Originally Posted by Gem
I only kniow that a life path isn't a way to anywhere particular ans such notions as all paths lead to thesame place is some invented sentiment more that factual, so it isn't really much to do with weather this experience of that experience being spiritual or material. These are considered to be passing temporance in equal measure.
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I'm not saying all these are wrong Gem, just that what the Taoists such as Lao-Tzu meant by Tao is much more as defined by TzuJanLi -- the universal, macrocosmic self-creating complex system.
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Originally Posted by Gem
The Tao means the way, so I guess anyone can make what they want of it.
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Exactly, 'Tao' and all its associated concepts (such as yin/yang, the 5 elements, etc.) were always open to the use of all and the means of a lot of experiment -- just exactly as with western notions that grew from similar brews of shamanism and philosophy. The only proviso, as TzuJanLi mentioned, might be that something which turns out to work is probably better than something that doesn't!