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Originally Posted by Kioma
My apologies again Leadville. You're right, my post takes a very simplistic and generic view, and deviates on multiple issues.
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thank you
Worse has been said.
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Let me tie my points specifically to point 9 of the OP.
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I had to look back. That was midwinter when the conversation with Still Waters began. It was one point among several and was specifically in connection with Spiritism at that point.
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First of all I do not believe there are any 'laws' of God that can be transgressed. We are talking about GOD, not some local Constable. The universe INNATELY regulates what you can and cannot do - THAT is what the 'law' of God looks like. THAT is why there is evil and suffering in the world, because a LAW of God is 'Thou shalt have free will', and that's just the way it IS. There are consequences, but they are a matter of self-definition and evolution, NOT crime and punishment. THAT is what a 'law' of God looks like. God doesn't make 'laws' that you can flout willy-nilly and other people just suffer for it because someone decides not to follow the 'law'. All you have to do is look around you to compare what people tell you about 'God's law' and what actually happens. It is much deeper and more complex than that - but it IMPOSSIBLE to break a law of God. If there are certain things God does not want you to do, I don't think it's much of a stretch to think God has the power and authority to make sure you DON'T. It is written into the very fabric of existence - the universes and by extension yours.
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Well it wasn't my choice of phrase 'law of God', it was Still Waters' but I'd call it the
natural law rather than 'God's law'. One natural law is that of cause and effect and could be a detailed conversation in itself, covering much we might consider. You might prefer to call it 'universal law' which takes the God element out of any debate.
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Point 9 basically states that the PRIORITY is for the child.
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That's not
exactly what it says.....
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Well, what about the mother's 'experiencing the trials for which she IS to be the instrument? Why is it all of a sudden that is no longer important? If a woman wants an abortion, obviously she has a reason for thinking as she does. It may be a reason we agree is 'good', and it may not, but to just arbitrarily assume that the PRIORITY of the child supersedes that of the mother is a bit presumptuous, don't you agree?
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Now we're into another conversation.
You're saying "PRIORITY" but Still Waters didn't actually say that in his opening posting.
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One can imagine scenarios where that may be true - some expedient may have come up that actually makes the child's 'trials for which it is to be an instrument' of higher priority than the mothers - but even that is problematic. How does anybody not know that if that child is a female, and grows up and becomes pregnant, then her unborn child will be determined to have higher priority than the woman whose mother's body sovereignty was forcibly taken away because of the very same thing? Wouldn't that be a rather reactive and short-sighted way to run a universe?
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You're straying away from the issues in Point 9 but please don't get me wrong - I'm not arguing with you. I feel the indignation you feel yet I am conflicted over spirit-teaching compared with what I feel I understand from my personal guidance.
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So that's the point I was making above, either spirit has a plan, or it doesn't.
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You
could say "spirit has a plan" but the actuality is that WE incarnates made whatever 'plan' we decided for ourselves before we incarnated on this last occasion. That's how I understand things and the approach I take towards life.
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If you believe spirit proceeds based on foreknowledge of what is to be done, then abortion is NOT a crime, as it too will be completely foreseeable - and if abortion is not foreseeable, then how could anything else be?
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My reaction to this is essentially what I wrote directly above. I see it that WE proceed in line with our individual, our personal, spiritual progress. Free will is open to us all - within certain limits - and what happens in our incarnate life is shaped by the decisions we freely took before we incarnated, the decisions we take in our human forms and the impact on our lives of others' free-will actions or omissions.
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I'd love to discuss in more depth some more of your previous reply, and points 8, 10 and 11 of the OP as well, but I feel it best if I focus there for a start.
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I would be happy to speak with you further on any points I feel able to offer my thoughts about.
My only request would be that we stick to one or maybe just a few points at a time to avoid things getting long-winded and messy!