[nummi]

Originally Posted by Podshell

nummi
I don't get your approach , you start of on the assumption that everone is in full health by dismissing the acid problem then go on to say that people are not in perfect health and have faulty digestion.

I have never assumed that everyone is in full health.

The fact is some foodstuffs in certain people do not get treated with adequate acid and in some too much acid is formed, this can be seen in whole tablets/pills passing through the body or ulcers forming from too much acid produced by the stomach.

The alkalinity/acidity that was mentioned was not about the stomach and gut. In the stomach and gut yes, if things are far too alkaline or too acidic, then digestion is disrupted.

Tablets and pills are made of substances that are very hard to break apart by stomach acids, by design. The medical industry does not want healthy people, because if people were healthy there could be no medical industry. Not to mention no one is supposed to eat those things anyway...

Originally Posted by Podshell

You try something yourself and if it tallies with what the experts say time and time again you begin to trust the source, this is a natural human trait.

It certainly seems to be your trait. It is not my trait.

As I've said before, there are short-term effects, and long-term effects. If you make up your mind based on short-term effects, you'll never see the long-term effects for what they truly are.
If you start trusting your source, as you apparently have, based on short term effects... Rash and hasty decisions are not always right.
And also, do your sources include everything relevant? Of course not. I know this from personal experience. Many sources, one saying one, another saying another. So what's the truth then? Have to compare and think, and experiment if necessary, to see what and how much of either is right and wrong. And form your own picture of the whole, not give blind trust to any source. Make your own source, inside yourself, that's always developing as you find out more. It's what I do...
Even if someone is very right, it doesn't mean I start living according to that persons opinions. I have my own mind, I develop my own.

Because it is too big a subject for one person in one life, the ancient chinese and aryuvedic health systems were not just based on a single persons experiments.

Nor are mine. As I do research, there are many people, different experiences. To know what applies to me I have to experiment on myself, not just blindly trust them. Once tested on myself, I form my own. Then taking into consideration that people differ, as experiences differ, there are obviously differences. But there are overlaying general patterns that apply to nearly all, as research, thinking, experience, and comparing them shows. How these patterns play out on an individual depends on the individual peculiarities.

One harmful influence can have many different effects.
Different harmful influences can have the same effect.
Different influences, and one influence, can have the same effects
These are where it can get complex. But not really... if you are aware enough of the working.

If you identify the reasons that lead to an effect, looking at the persons appearance, thoughts put into words, behavior, etc., accompanied by being aware of the general patterns and what generally causes what, a lot can be concluded with precision.

Same here but these are very small wells of knowledge compared to the whole

Small yes compared to the whole. But at present time, present state we are in, and what we have easiest access to from our present location in every sense, this small is the most important.
To move on to more, first have to remove some obstacles. So a small thing can mean everything if the goal is to move on to higher, because this small thing can keep you from truly moving on for as long as it is not solved.
Some can bypass it, skip it entirely, through other areas being stronger. But that is very few.

The present agriculture system is, if you look at kibbutz/temple/monastary systems these are not for profit they are to feed people.

There are those who are not for profit. Same goes about animals, not just plants.

So is it bad behaviour to kill an animal for food? having done so myself I would say yes, I would also ask you to take a look at your own posts and see how provocative they could be, also meat consumption is advertised extensively in our society and it has worked in brainwashing as people eat it at most meals many times a day.

It is not bad behavior to kill for food if you need the food.
It is bad to kill for food if you don't need the food.

"Meat consumption is advertised extensively in our society and it has worked in brainwashing as people eat it at most meals many times a day"? I could say the same about plants... think about this a little, or a lot.
All the talk about "eat your vegetables"... and the fruits and vegetables and greens, full of toxins, that are sold in shops of many types. It's not just meat, it's everything.
How much do they advertise cookies and candies and such things? A lot... That all is heavily processed plants, as a result of the processing all poisonous, with extra added toxins. Essentially the same goes about meat industry meat; same thing, different source.

It's not that they advertise eating meat. It's the kind of meat they advertise eating. Meat full of toxins and other bad things - this is the reason it is advertised.
They also advertise eating plants full of toxins. Toxins. The reason why.

It goes both ways. Not just one way.

It is okay to eat meat at every meal. I do... Two meals a day, each time eggs, or fish, or meat, or fat, or organs. Almost each meal also plant stuff. Sometimes I skip a whole meal, don't eat anything.
I could say to you it is not okay to eat plants at every meal. This is as ridiculous.
You eat what you have to eat, depending on what your body needs, and when it needs it, and how much it needs it. If it needs plants, you'll eat plants; if it needs meat, you'll eat meat. To avoid eating something when your body needs it, because you blindly trust someone else's opinions without really knowing why they have such opinions... Now this is pointless hurting of self. Unless for some reason you need this pain.

It can take many years to realise some foodstuffs or the poisons within are effecting you, I think something like mercury can take up to thirty years.

Depends on awareness. If one has nearly no awareness regarding something that hurts, then might be that never realizes it. So many examples to give of people who don't die of old age, but die of sickness and disease.
Also needs self-sensitivity and self-perception. Most don't have these active in themselves, or far too little.

Originally Posted by Podshell

Seeing as most people like the taste of meat then the ulterior motive would be to find any excuse to eat it, not the other way round!!

This is absolutely ridiculous!
It is the exact same as saying, "Just because you like the taste of bananas, your ulterior motive is to find any excuse to eat them."

Please try to think things through before saying them.

Because we have disrupted the planets ecosystem does that mean then we HAVE to eat the animals or fight those who are messing it up, why pick on the innocent animals?

???
Humans have eaten animals for as long as we have existed, as did our partial ancestors, and as have many other animals on this planet. Are you saying the planet's ecosystem has always been disrupted? You see... this is one exact thing I referred to when I mentioned how most meat-avoiders behave.

This, eating meat, has absolutely nothing to do with disrupted planet's ecosystem. It has absolutely everything to do with what our bodies need and what they cannot get in the needed quantities if not for eating meat.

This is where you have to forget the meat-industry completely, because it is a topic and area completely on its own. And look at what our bodies need and have needed, and what omnivorous and carnivorous animals need and have needed. It is obvious. If you don't see it, then try to ask yourself, "why is obvious to you not obvious?" And try to answer it to yourself.

You think the plants, vegetables, seeds, you eat are not innocent? You kill each day just as does every other living human on this planet, be it plants, or animals, or micro-organisms. You kill every day. This is absolute reality. Face it and accept it, or deny it and suffer until karma does its job.

You talk about lies, but condone killing of fellow creatures!

Plants are also fellow creatures.
It's not about condoning, it's about what our bodies need.

That is how some people come to form a belief but itis not based on a full fund of knowledge.

???
What do you mean by "full fund of knowledge"?

I have repeatedly shown that I know about health and diet much better than you. You may say as you like, but doesn't mean it's true, especially if you don't know better than the one you're saying it to.

Yes I agree, but the people who are causing damage to our food chain they cannot see this.

There are those who give orders and who design systems.

There are those who are indoctrinated and brainwashed and thus blindly and ignorantly follow orders and systems.

There are those who see some issues, but don't really do anything about it. Because they don't really have any idea how to make things better so that they would remain better.

Then there are those who would do everything about it and know exactly what must be done. But can't because there are too few of them, and other issues. They'd be crushed if they acted too soon, too early. So they do what little they can, step by step raising frequencies as best they can. To do this little, most important is to keep themselves high and take themselves higher. So they would know exactly how to get higher, what to suggest to others who are ready to listen and raise themselves.

Avoiding eating meat, on this planet, in these times, in these bodies, does not get one higher. Avoiding what the the body needs severely limits the road to higher, and eventually blocks it outright. There are extremely few exceptions to this.

Originally Posted by Podshell

I think some things should be cooked though even only slightly, especially if digestion is not up to it.

Considering cooking always destroys nutrients and always creates toxins, nothing should ever be cooked, not even slightly. If best health possible is a goal.
Digestion is always up to it. But problems can occur if the specific food item is not for the individual, or there is damage caused by previous wrong dieting or by something else.

One thing I remember when going raw was that in the beginning (for about one month) I felt my own stomach acid... Raw foods need stronger stomach acid, but as a result they also digest faster, and as another result whatever harmful organisms should come with the food, they are far less likely to survive the stronger stomach acid. It takes some time for the stomach to adjust.
If having eaten a cooked diet for a long time, the stomach is weaker, as it doesn't need the resilience that is required for the stronger stomach acid. (In truth it's the other way around, cooked foods require weaker stomach acid. And the "stronger" one is the correct one.)

I know you are not keen on listening to experts but I read Dr Mercolas articles sometimes and they tally with much of what you believe, he is quite good, but advocates meat eating so I do not think he realises the bigger picture regards karma and the soul being the important part not the body

You apparently don't know well enough what karma is. It is about learning lessons, one way or another. Even if someone does something bad, the lesson that comes from it does not have to be learned in a way that something, or the same thing, happens back to the person. There are more ways than one to achieve the same effect.
Karma represents opportunities. Denying and avoiding something is not using the opportunities. But there will come new ones for as long as you haven't learned from it. Repeatedly till you get it right, till you learn from it.

The soul is just as important as is the body. If you neglect your physical body you make a severe disservice to your soul and spirit. All bodies are connected, whole. Making a disservice to one is making a disservice to all.

Of course Mercola does not realize the big picture, but neither do you. He neglects one side, you neglect another. But neither are there two sides, there're more. How about taking it all as a whole, to as big an extent you are aware? You have mentioned the "whole" before, I would suggest you take you own advice on this, and stop avoiding eating meat. Thus stopping doing harm do your physical body and through physical body to your other bodies.

There might be some types of meat you can't do well on, but not all of them.
If something causes you discomfort, then the solution is not ditching that something. First you have to identify why it causes discomfort, and then, if it really is something specifically about the food item that causes it, and not something else, then you ditch it.

For example, something I know from myself. I once ate garlic. It caused issues in the stomach. Gases, inflammation, etc. So I stopped eating it. Later I found out that it wasn't garlic that caused it, but it was the candida/yeast/parasite die-off and the resulting gases, and toxins the parasitic organisms kept in them. They died, they broke apart, they released toxins, that caused gases and inflammation. Garlic wasn't the culprit, garlic was doing very much good. And now, no problem eating garlic. In fact, since I now know and have seen on myself that it kills candida/yeast, I specifically eat it often.
Same can be with any food item. Just because you eat something and notice some negative effects does not immediately mean that the eaten caused it.
Same way that sometimes the same food item might cause issues because at that time your body does not need it.
Sometimes I really like honey and it makes me feel much better. Other times I don't even want to see it.
Same way sometimes I eat eggs and they make me feel so good, other times I don't even want to see any.
Etc.

***********
Having conversed some with you, I can see some damage you've caused yourself by avoiding eating meat and the corresponding dogma. Nor have you really much anything to say... As I do most of the "talking" and explaining... You are not one of those who can do well by avoiding eating meat. Nor have you enough awareness regarding all this to make such certain conclusion that you have made. Essentially, blind trust is what you have.
Your body is not built to sustain and work avoiding meat.
Given the human body, avoiding eating meat is severely limiting and/or hindering oneself.

I suggest you try to correct the mistake, or keep going till karma will correct it for you one way or another, in this life or another. The lesson itself is not that of eating meat, it's the awareness and truth behind eating meat or not and why and when it is relevant and necessary or not.
A way, the easiest way, given the human body, is by eating meat and noticing changes. Experimenting in different ways, with different factors, acquiring the "patterns", and learning from it. This over many months, perhaps even years if necessary.