Unconditional love?
 

In my brief time here I've noticed quite a few references to the phrase, "unconditional love." I'd like to add a few comments on this issue.

I hate to be a spoil sport, but someone needs to explain that there is no such thing as "unconditional" love. It's a myth.

It may be that some people have used the term incorrectly to describe something else that is genuine, but the idea that love just pours out in all directions with no restrictions, no discretion, and no limits is just not on. Worse than that, the term "unconditional love" has been used in such a way by many people as to devalue or even condemn genuine love.

A common example of unconditional love is the love of a mother for her children. But they overlook that the first "condition" for such love is that they must be her children. It may not even be a fair condition if it leads to injustices for people who are not her children.

Let's compare the mother to God. Many people claim that the concept of unconditional love comes from God, who loves everybody and who loves infinitely. We are all his "children", so we could say that God (because he is so much greater than us) has the kind of love that a mother has for just a few people (i.e. for her children), except that God has this infinite (unconditional) love for everyone.

But what happens when one of God's children hurts another one of his children? What if the offender does so deliberately and cruelly and repeatedly? Does God say, "It doesn't matter. You are my child, and I love you unconditionally?"

No. God cannot do that without becoming unloving toward the child who is suffering. God must speak up and condemn the behaviour of the errant child. His "love" involves rules, and it also involves punishment for people who break the rules.

Technically, God still loves the sinner even when he is meting out punishment, and in that sense his love is not conditional. But his "love" is expressed in a way that is not usually covered by the fairly recent term "unconditional love". The term "unconditional love" was invented to describe a kind of love that refuses to pass judgment.

Long before the term "unconditional love" was coined we already had the concept of forgiveness (which always implied some kind of repentance as a condition for receiving it); but people were not happy with that. They wanted a God who was indifferent even to the sin, and especially to whether or not a person repents.

That was when Lucifer came along with his doctrine of unconditional love. He pretended to have something better than what God was offering. God wanted you to show some sorrow for your behaviour, to turn around, to make restitution, to change. But Lucifer said that you could have his friendship and still go on breaking as many rules as you like, without him passing judgment on you. He would love you "unconditionally". See how diabolically clever it is? It sounds so much better than what God was offering. It is so much easier than finding forgiveness through repentance.

But it's a lie.

Look at the bigger picture in all of these situations where people preach (and try to practise) unconditional love. Their families break up; their marriages collapse; their relationships with others remain superficial and flat, often masking selfish indifference.

It's easy to be "unconditional" with someone that you don't really care about. Professional social workers and psychologists are the world's experts at this. They'll listen to you with an apparently non-judgmental ear until your scheduled appointment is up, and then you'll go away thinking well of them. "Why can't my family and friends be as non-judgmental?" you'll ask yourself. But the answer is probably because your family and friends have an emotional investment in you that goes beyond a scheduled appointment. This investment makes them shout their disagreement when they see you doing things that may hurt them and you both.

It probably would be good if your family and friends could be more patient, more forgiving, and more sympathetic to your point of view. But do not assume that the professional distance of social workers and counsellors represents greater "love" than these other people have for you.

The Bible says, "Those whom the Lord loves, he chastens... And if he does not chastise you, then he is treating you as a ******* and not as a son or daughter." (Hebrews 12:6-8) It goes on to say that no rebuke or correction is pleasant at the time that we receive it. But if we will recognise the truth in a correction, and if we will act on it, we will be happier in the long run. (Hebrews 12:11)

By taking heed to the conditions of discipleship that Jesus has prescribed for us, we can find life in all its fullness. Over and over we read that great "conditional" word "if" in the Bible. And if we meet the conditions, the truth can set us free (John 8:31-32), if we meet the conditions, we can have fellowship one with another (1 John 1:7), if we meet the conditions, he will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9), and if we meet the conditions, we can ask for what we want, and God will give it to us (John 15:7). Everywhere you look in the Bible, you will find exceeding great and precious promises. But they almost all have conditions attached to them. Look for the word "if" and you will see that it appears before almost every promise.

Follow the conditions, and you'll discover all the blessings and wonders of true love, which is God's love. Ignore the conditions, and you will have nothing but regrets. This is the message of true love. It's not as popular as the message of "unconditional love", but it is the truth.

" I hate to be a spoil sport, but someone needs to explain that there is no such thing as "unconditional" love. It's a myth."


Isn't this just your opinion ? You cannot speak for all, in my opinion there is " unconditional love " It is loving without attachment.

Did you read past the first line? Do you have any comments on the reasons given to support the conclusion?

Yes I did read all your post which is based on your beliefs and your beliefs only.

You obviously believe that that Bible is the word of God and that is fine for you but a lot of people including Christians don't, which is their choice.

As I mentioned on another thread, the God of the OT is not the God I believe in because of the violence and abuse it mentions, God is love. You keep asking for evidence and I have answered you that the evidence is there for you to read.

This is just MY opinion and I don't expect others to have the same opinions as me, we all interpret things our own way. My God has unconditional love for all, love without attachment/expectations.

"The bible is the word of God" isn't the topic. The topic is unconditional love.



I'm asking you to comment on the reasoning in my post about why there is no such thing as unconditional love. Would you mind addressing the reasons I've given?


Yes, yes, I understand you have your own opinion. No one has said anything about you not having your own opinion. What I am asking you to do is to think about the reasoning on both sides of the argument. Just repeating over and over again that you have an opinion doesn't add anything to the discussion.

[quote=windywherever]Technically, God still loves the sinner even when he is meting out punishment, and in that sense his love is not conditional. But his "love" is expressed in a way that is not usually covered by the fairly recent term "unconditional love". The term "unconditional love" was invented to describe a kind of love that refuses to pass judgment.

Long before the term "unconditional love" was coined we already had the concept of forgiveness (which always implied some kind of repentance as a condition for receiving it); but people were not happy with that. They wanted a God who was indifferent even to the sin, and especially to whether or not a person repents.
QUOTE]


windywherever,

First of all, this discourse on unconditional love represents your present understanding. There is a possibility that this is not a permanent understanding.....i.e. it could be subject to change. It is entirely possible that the day might come when, with tears in your eyes, you can proclaim "How great Thou art!"

You have defined unconditional love as people might wish to define it(love that does not see sin) and is not subject to a FINAL judgment. God's love, however, is a covenant. He does not break it......we might break it.......but He does not. The parable of the prodigal son is an example of this. We can turn from God but He welcomes us back with open arms. The perfection of God is biblically defined by His attribute of mercy. Only one that has the power and right of judgment can bestow mercy.

Sorry, I'm not understanding what you're saying here. How would you define unconditional love?


Sure, God is willing to welcome us back, but in the parable of the prodigal son, the son went back repenting. Although the father was happy to see the son before the son had time to repent, the relationship would have suffered if the son had decided to take advantage of his father's kindness by declining to take responsibility for his behavior and say sorry.

Unconditional love has become synonymous with "never having to say you're sorry" because feeling bad about our behavior is seen as a condition on the love. It's just not consistent with what Jesus actually taught. If God didn't require responsibility and remorse for our bad behavior, I don't think I'd feel nearly as inclined to say, "how great thou art".

windywherever,

You unintentionally limit God when you use the word 'if'......( If God didn't require responsibility and remorse for our bad behavior,etc). That is your concept of what would seem logical and rational for God. My process of logic is this: God by using HIS free will can reject OUR rejection of Him. His love is not conditional on our repentence or our behavior. We think in terms of mortal life......God thinks in terms of eternal life. To repent guarantees fellowship with God in this life and exposes us to the eternal life.....it is for and to our benefit in this life in the here and now. God's love knows no boundaries of time. This is unconditional love. Many a parent has been told by an angry child....."I hate you!"........many a parent has rejected this rejection by their child and has chosen to remain true to the path of unconditional love. God simply does this on a grander scale and does not lose His patience. For us this might seem incomprehensible but that is because we lack the divine mind. God is not of this world.....different universes have different rules.

I don't think social workers and psychologists express unconditional love.
Compassion maybe - but unconditional? No they are as judgmental as anybody else but have the professional training to try to be aware of that and not let it influence their professional judgement.
In ordinary human consciousness it is impossible to express unconditional love - you need to connect with God who streams it through you.
The one who expresses unconditional love says (and means it) in the midst of torture "Forgive them Father they know not what they do"

It's easy to be "unconditional" with someone that you don't really care about.


Windywherever, I would say that you are assuming that people who have a professional standard, do their jobs without genuine feeling. That manner of behavior, which I would not use as a blanket idea would be better expressed as "conditional love", where Love is given only under certain conditions. Unconditional love is not an umbrella one raises and holds up to protect themselves from all responsibility for choice, it is making the choice to treat all you meet as worthy and not to separate your own welfare from the whole or any part of the whole.

Who is to say when one is acting with unconditional love? There are mothers and fathers who care for other people's children just as their own. There are children who act with unconditional love when they spontaneously share their lunch, for example, with a child who forgot his. Only the self can feel unconditional love whether they feel it within or without. Compassion is as close as we can come to speak in general and objective terms, but many DO have moments of thinking or acting with unconditional love. It is not impossible, just not logical to the survival mentality. Unconditional love is an experience when you align with the divine and the divine acts through you so that out of your presence, love pours out in action. It is a state we all could have as an ideal of the deep nature of love, though that is a free will choice. Unconditional love is not just about mastering the conditions of life, but of choosing to feel love is really who and what you are. In my words, which are just one idea of this concept that transcends words, UL is a flow of love from within the self that is needless grace and gives a reflection of divinity in all directions.

In a way it is kind of like trying to describe color to a world that only sees black and white. TO begin to know what unconditional love means, you start by emptying yourself of expectations that anyone or the world owes you anything. Our demands and expectations are all conditions. That does not mean you abandon any good will you have or faith you have and act in a contrived manner, rather that you only have and project good will all of the time. Even saying, no, can be done with unconditional love. For example if someone asks you to do them a favor and you do not feel love is speaking to you or that the request is one you can fulfill with integrity, you may say no. Using discernment is how one gradually feels their way into recognizing moments of unconditional love. The unconditional love in that refusal I mentioned involves being able to forsee a consequence or outcome that is unbalancing or harmful in some way. I would suggest you not make unconditional love out to be so unnatural, but rather consider it as love that binds people together into relationship, as well as actions that multiply good. Out of our innermost vibrations, come our experiences, and out of unconditional love vibrations comes broad mindedness that is serene with challenge or what appears to be some disadvantage. Unconditional love turns everything to advantage by responding with genuine benevolence. What makes genuine genuine you might ask? Unconditional love can be felt by others as strong and nonattached gratitude and simultaneously felt by yourself as the divine within in action. To me, it is nothing less than love expanding in all directions.