Nature of Afterlife
 

Hi all,

Newbie here. Anyway, I've been doing a lot of personal exploration about what I ultimately believe. And truthfully it changes day to day. I was brought up Catholic but am kind of lapsed. I've run the gamut from "heaven + God", "afterlife without God," "nature" etc. etc.

To be honest, though, I was actually quite troubled when I began to explore Buddhism. In fact it was very frightening. It teaches that the "self" as we know it is an illusion and that reincarnation is not desirable, only nirvana (highest knowledge/enlightenment and extinction). I didn't find Hinduism much more comforting either, as it stresses "oneness" with greater consciousness that excludes individuality (I think??).

I was wondering, what do you all think? Do you believe we retain our individuality in the hereafter?

I believe we do have an individual consciousness and identity as souls (though the boundaries aren't so rigid as they are in the embodied egoic self).

But I also believe that individual souls are born out of the One, and ultimately return to it. By the time that happens, I imagine the individual souls are more than ready for it, and happy to go. Awakening/reaching enlightenment while embodied here on earth is just one small step, as is ceasing to embody at all (and one does not automatically follow the other).

I believe there are further levels, further lessons to learn, and more work to do even after we've ceased embodying. What are they? I don't know; I'm not that advanced! But it's safe to say that if you're still embodying, you're not going to merge back into the One anytime soon.

Thank you, Wandering Star! Very nice perspective.

These days, I'm very skeptical but I also know some of that is because every person's understanding of the currently unknown is different.

Here's my take with some background - I was raised Catholic, but have largely abandoned it. I do, however, put a lot of stock in the teachings of Thomas Aquinas that our nature as human beings is in an embodied state. And most people I think who claim to have communicated with the dead still perceptualize their loved ones in an embodied form. I think it is very hard to divorce ourselves completely from our physical existence as our senses and mind make us who we are. I believe that is why Jesus was a person. The concept of an eternal hereafter in a disembodied form where we are a vaporous, unified consciousness makes no sense to me. That is where resurrection comes in.

How does this play into my current thinking, minus the Catholic dogma? If, as many sneering atheists claim (though that in no way applies to all atheists), that we are just material beings who cease to exist after death, then here is something to think about -- all living things (human and animal) have a specific *formula* for lack of a better word, comprising molecules and energy. That formula still exists after death. (ie H20 is always water) If the world and universe were an accident, then that same accident could happen again and we could, theoretically, be reconstituted. Physicists have said, according to the idea of multiverse, that an eternity means every possibility will be born and reborn. I'm not alluding to reincarnation where souls hop from body to body, I really mean coming back as oneself. Call it resurrection, awakening, being born all over again.

Anyway, this is my line of thinking right now. It may change. But I do not happily envision an eternal afterlife that is formless.

I really can't say for certain because I am not able to see past the veil so to speak but I rather believe that though certain groups start with a concept that holds some truth to it, the concept itself gets a bit misconstrued. I can't say whether or not we eventually lose individuality at some point but from my understanding it is just that we lose the identity we know in this life. We however as a spirit are still individual. But there isn't anything like sexes, races or anything like that. We choose a role to play that has x, y, z issues and characteristics to learn some lessons but that character dissolves upon death. We do sometimes see loved ones as they were while we are still alive because we would otherwise not recognize them but once we are passed over then we understand our true nature. So if this were true and reincarnation is also true then we all were any number of different people at different points who all dissolved back into one identity, our soul. All the different characters meld together over time and define who our soul will be. Those people we were, are no longer individual because they now comprise all the people we ever were. I kind of think that is where the concept lies for me. And I think this is where the concept of we are one lies. Whether this means our spirits are like people with an even bigger spirit or something playing its soul roles I am not sure. But from what I understand we still maintain a certain amount of individuality in the afterlife. But if we don't and we eventually lose it I would think we are accepting of it as a part of existence. Anyways, those are my thoughts. Not sure if they are grounded in truth or not but that is what feels right to me.

But I do not happily envision an eternal afterlife that is formless.

Scary isn't it. Im struggling with it and I began my experiences on this, a fair few years ago.

The first sign I got was loosing forms, in obe or deep meditative states, way I got things in readings etc I wrote to my friends seeking advice, put posts out about it. Its just so much to even try and get your head around.

Since then ive been in a few mind blowing experience that words cant explain. But as much as I am struggling to intergrate all this, I, at this point in my life, absolutely believe it is true.

Its implications roll out into everything. Especially for me in regards of my family passed.

I had no idea what to relate it to, but a kind guy on the site, from me telling him how I saw things, managed to interpretate it into some kind of explanation. I can share what was said in detail if you like.

But for now, For myself, how I see things, (as this guy interpretated it as) are a mixture of Vedic, Buddhist cosmology and eastern mind theory.

My experience so far, leads me to utterly believe it is indeed, formless. Whats interesting about that, is imagine a space that's only felt...

Great topic, thanks for sharing, this stuff is massive in my life right now, its great to hear others views/beliefs on it :)

Look forward to reading many more.

Loopy

@JR1981, have you read "Life In The World Unseen"? By Anthony Borgia. I like to think this is the way it will be; for me anyway. Everyone has their own interpretations.

Thespian

Hi Loopy,

I've explored Buddhism, too but it wasn't something that I could comprehend and what little of it I did, I was more frightened than comforted. It is my understanding that Buddhism believes that our lives right now are undesirable, that the world is noting but suffering. Reincarnation happens, but should ultimately fizzle out as we attain enlightenment, ultimately resulting in our extinction. If I'm incorrect, please correct me.

As I mentioned, I do not believe (and am not interested) in a formless afterlife where personal identity is shed completely. Assuming there is a God, I do not believe that we ARE God, striving to return to our "source" as one. I don't believe I'm being "selfish" in the usual sense of the word; I'm talking more about survival. We are separate minds, striving to be with one another, not "become" one another. (Well for me, at least.....)

Hey , I should point out, that i know very little if anything, about buddhism, vedic or any other thing! SO i couldnt and wouldnt begin to try and even correct you, the truth is i have no idea about that. As i said, i explained my experiences so far, and someone on the site was able to relate them to these philosphys/ideas etc.

I, as it happens, dont believe in reincarnation or past lives personally. So it wasnt to say that all of what i feel fits one idea or another.

I dont tend to study religions or philosphys much atall. Though one topic i have, since this unfolded got very into, is consciousness and the theorys out there surrounding that. On my search to try and understand better.

Its great to hear your views on things and how you feel about it all. Please know despite these things being what i hold as true, im not here or interested, in trying to change anyone elses mind or disregard there ideas. I just want to learn about them and listen to how others see it.

I do realise, one thing massively, that everything i have ever felt, believed etc, is subject to change in a heartbeat. I feel differently know to what i did 10 years and go, and then differently again 2 years before that etc.

But its a profound and mind blowing voyage of discovery always huh :)

Loopy

Thank you, Loopy. :)

I'm probably better at identifying what I don't believe, but what I do believe is ever changing.

There is alot to learn/resonate to fully comprehend any philosophy ...
My belief is we shed our human body to become a spiritual ball of energy w/our identity in tact ...
All in all I find some philosophies are similar to some religions to some spiritual concepts ...
I've spent decades studying/gathering information on different spiritual concepts, various religions & philosophies ...
Its a wonder I don't live w/a migraine from too much information ... :wink:
Since most of it has similarities, I found it best to reduce it all to a form of simplicity rather than thinking in the abstract - Boooo, too much work! ...
If, whatever it is, offers no confort &/or causes harm, be rid of it ...

The "ONE" is about being joined w/the universe or people, whichever term is suitable ...
United thinking & striving for same ...
A world completely filled w/those who only want love, peace, harmony, etc ...
Or hate, war, greed, etc ...
We live amongst millions who want the former or the latter ...
In today's world, there is no "one" mindset ...

I don't accept that we are all a God, although I do know narcisstic people who think they are ... :cussing: :laughing6:
It seems that everything & anything that is regarded as special can be reduced to the most common ...

As for being "one" w/God (only thinking & doing good stuff), I pray I will be when I die ...
I strive for it everyday of my life ...
But who knows, with all the rumblings about hell & sin I might not make the cut to soar to heaven in a group or individually ...
It might be pre-determined that I be sent to New Orleans for Mardi Gras to experience all sorts of naughty stuff I didn't do while alive on earth ... :laughing3:

Add more inspirational quotes, rules, concepts, etc. as you become ready ...
For now, live life simply & by The Golden Rule = Shared Ethic of Reciprocity:

Native American Spirituality-Black Elk: "All things are our relatives; what we do to everything, we do to ourselves. All is really One."
Bible-Luke: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
The Old Testament-Book of Leviticus: "Love thy Neighbor as thyself" ...
Confucius: "Do not do to others that which we do not want them to do to us."
Hindu/Sanskrit: “Do not unto others which would cause pain if done to you” ...
Buddhism: "…a state that is not pleasing or delightful to me, how could I inflict that upon another?"
Islam: "None of you [truly] believes until he wishes for
his brother what he wishes for himself."
Jainism: "Therefore, neither does he [a sage] cause violence to others
nor does he make others do so."
Shinto: "The heart of the person before you is a mirror. See there
your own form." ...
Taoism: "Regard your neighbor’s gain as your own gain, and your
neighbor’s loss as your own loss."
Wicca: "An it harm no one, do what thou wilt" (do what ever you will, as long as it harms nobody, including yourself).
Yoruba: (Nigeria): "One going to take a pointed stick to pinch
a baby bird should first try it on himself to feel how it hurts."
Zoroastrianism: "That nature alone is good which refrains from doing unto."
another whatsoever is not good for itself".