Spiritual Forums

Spiritual Forums (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/index.php)
-   Taoism (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=127)
-   -   Everything is perfect ?? (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=127425)

water drop 13-01-2019 07:23 PM

Everything is perfect ??
 
I see a lot of merit in seeing things as perfect to help yourslef and am planing to go that route now - but while reading about this type of way of acting i ran into people saying that everything is perfect in an actual sense

and the claim against that which always rises from people but never gets answered is : how are wars and diseases and all the suffering thats happening perfect ?

also if everything is perfect why do good deeds ?

Uncarved Block 19-01-2019 09:02 PM

Yin and Yang. Nature is perfect, but you can't have love without hate. Good without evil. Etc. Understanding that both opposites are one will help in understanding this.


What good deeds? Remember doing so is self-serving. Just be your true self in spreading kindness and compassion.

.

simon777 07-03-2020 05:34 PM

Maybe if we decided to paint a picture of a man and a woman living life and had billions of years to create the perfect picture we might come to the conclusion that in order to see some positives as beautiful as they are we would have to paint some negatives. Man and Woman would be such opposites. Yin and Yang.

We as humans have a soul which is from the essence of the universe and travels through the middle of Yin and Yang.

The earth goes through a cycle of spring summer autumn and winter. Within that cycle is birth and death. All the good that can ever be and all the bad.

We are given free will to travel through these changes in what ever direction we
want. We can be the nicest person or the nastiest person its up to us but with each act we choose we open a door which takes us up a level or down a level and each extra level is filled with more of what we have created.

The universe is that very perfect painting made from billions of years. Its considered every brush stroke, every detail, every angle. Its a perfectly balanced way of every life that has ever existed to join in the game. The picture
is so big to cater for every action or reality to take place that sometimes the bad parts like war etc look unbalanced. Positive gives us happiness. Negative gives us wisdom.
We cannot be happy with out knowing sad.

iamthat 07-03-2020 06:42 PM

As we tread the spiritual path we see both the absolute and the relative.

In the absolute, everything is perfect. If the cause is perfect then the effects are perfect. Perfection cannot give rise to imperfection.

In the relative, we see the imperfections such as war and disease, giving rise to unnecessary suffering. We compare how things are to an idea of how things could be. We do good deeds to try to improve our world.

We live as both an absolute existence and a relative experience. The aim is to experience the relative while resting in the absolute. Thus we see perfection in the imperfection.

This includes letting go of any idea of having an aim. Any aim is an idea of future becoming. When we let go of future becoming then we rest in present Being.

Peace

ketzer 13-03-2020 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by water drop
I see a lot of merit in seeing things as perfect to help yourslef and am planing to go that route now - but while reading about this type of way of acting i ran into people saying that everything is perfect in an actual sense

and the claim against that which always rises from people but never gets answered is : how are wars and diseases and all the suffering thats happening perfect ?

also if everything is perfect why do good deeds ?


It’s a bit of a brain twister alright, but I would tend to agree with those who say the world is perfect in an actual sense. Although I detest the wars, disease, and suffering as much as anyone else, I can not say that I know that they are “unnecessary”. Life gives us the experiences that we need, not necessarily the ones we want. Or to look at it from another perspective, the only way we can get from life what the soul wants, is to undergo the experiences it has to offer. The world...life, is perfectly designed to provide the experiences that we need to learn and grow, but wisdom does not always come cheap.
When a child is born, we may say that the baby is “perfect”. And in the sense that there is nothing wrong with it, this is true. Yet the child will still change and grow. In time it may lose an arm, eye, or leg, or it may turn out to be autistic. And yet, if someone said the child is imperfect, we might object. In the larger sense there is still nothing “wrong” with the child, it is still “perfect”. During each life experience you may suffer greatly, be treated unjustly, become old, angry, and bitter, yet all of this is experience, all of it can expand your understanding and grow your soul. Both the world and you are perfect. Tomorrow both you and the world will have changed. Tomorrow both you and the world will still be perfect, you can never be anything less.

BTW: You say you now plan on going the route of seeing things as perfect. It is a difficult route to follow, and I have found I have great difficulty not getting lost along the way. In fact I can never be quite sure I am on the rout, particularly when anger, greed, envy and other such things cloud my vision. Which I suspect is a good thing, in fact, I suspect it is perfect.

Lucid 10-08-2020 09:38 AM

Whoever introduced the concept of perfection did so because they were insecure and forgot their nature.

GlitterRose 12-09-2020 06:59 AM

People say everything is perfect?

I would say everything has a crack in it.

But we're here and it doesn't do us any good to wallow in despair.

Do the good that you can and try and have some fun while you're at it.

ketzer 12-09-2020 01:58 PM

“The world, my friend Govinda, is not imperfect, or on a slow path towards perfection: no, it is perfect in every moment, all sin already carries the divine forgiveness in itself, all small children already have the old person in themselves, all infants already have death, all dying people the eternal life. It is not possible for any person to see how far another one has already progressed on his path; in the robber and dice-gambler, the Buddha is waiting; in the Brahman, the robber is waiting. In deep meditation, there is the possibility to put time out of existence, to see all life which was, is, and will be as if it was simultaneous, and there everything is good, everything is perfect, everything is Brahman. Therefore, I see whatever exists as good, death is to me like life, sin like holiness, wisdom like foolishness, everything has to be as it is, everything only requires my consent, only my willingness, my loving agreement, to be good for me, to do nothing but work for my benefit, to be unable to ever harm me. I have experienced on my body and on my soul that I needed sin very much, I needed lust, the desire for possessions, vanity, and needed the most shameful despair, in order to learn how to give up all resistance, in order to learn how to love the world, in order to stop comparing it to some world I wished, I imagined, some kind of perfection I had made up, but to leave it as it is and to love it and to enjoy being a part of it.”
― Hermann Hesse, Siddhartha

Ewwerrin 29-11-2020 05:12 AM

Everything is perfect, regardless of war and disease.
War and disease are irrelevant and cannot block the current of Dao.
And when you live in harmony with Dao, you joyfully live life in unconditionaly joy, regardless of any and all conditions, under any and all conditions, unconditionally, energy motionally, emotionally, you ALLOW your evermore natural and effortless greater allowed realisation of any and all things you may want to be do or have evermore naturally and effortlessly and freely here and now, when and where all that exists is being and becoming evermore naturally and effortlessly here and now.

You flow with the natural path of least resistance = the path of lesser resistance. IS the path of zero insistence. And full allowance. To allow the natural well-being of all that exists as it is being and becoming evermore naturally and effortlessly, freely and joyfully through you, here and now, for you, as you, with you, by you, through you. As all is one and one is all.

Namaste.

AbodhiSky 01-03-2021 08:57 PM

it's perfect in the sense i change what i can and don't change what i can't

django 15-03-2021 12:40 AM

The truth is everything is not already perfect, either on a societal scale or on an individual scale. A sage sees everything as perfect, but it takes the right effort to become a sage. Before “wu wei”, non-action or spontaneous nature, there is “you wei”, which literally means “there is action”. First, there is “you wei”, then there is “wu wei”. First, you perform the correct action, then you be natural and reap the benefits that action is purported to give.

AbodhiSky 16-03-2021 08:27 PM

everything is perfectly imperfect
free will means we can make a mess of things
but then we reap what we sow

Rah nam 17-03-2021 01:20 AM

There is no such thing as perfection outside of source.
With perfection comes stagnation and creation in about expansion.

Miss Hepburn 17-03-2021 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rah nam
There is no such thing as perfection outside of source.
With perfection comes stagnation and creation in about expansion.

Trick question!! What's outside of Source? :biggrin:
I know that a truck hitting my car in a parking lot and taking off is perfect.:smile:
No one seeing them or getting a plate ...all perfect! Ha!

inavalan 17-03-2021 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by water drop
I see a lot of merit in seeing things as perfect to help yourslef and am planing to go that route now - but while reading about this type of way of acting i ran into people saying that everything is perfect in an actual sense

and the claim against that which always rises from people but never gets answered is : how are wars and diseases and all the suffering thats happening perfect ?

also if everything is perfect why do good deeds ?

:smile: Nothing is perfect ... Everything is on an eternal value fulfillment path (including whatever "source").

Rah nam 17-03-2021 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Trick question!! What's outside of Source? :biggrin:

Anything that is made of energy is outside of source.

Miss Hepburn 17-03-2021 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rah nam
Anything that is made of energy is outside of source.

Fascinating answer!
What's outside of Source ...what is not part of Source?

utopiandreamchild 18-03-2021 07:11 AM

Far be us from perfection, not that we couldn't achieve such a thing however the reality is we're just not there yet. We aren't even masters of the earth when what we need to be are masters of the universe. We still have diseases which we know next to nothing about. We rape and pilledge the earth and take without giving back. We are way behind on climate change. etc etc etc. We're nowhere near perfect. The question is how do we attain perfection. Unity is one, loving each other and sharing global wealth is another. One tree harvested 2 trees planted is another. We'd be close to perfection if we had paradise on earth, obviously with everything being healthy and thriving. Amen

AbodhiSky 01-04-2021 08:42 PM

perfect is just an idea. without ideas all is as it should be
we have a presence though and seek to influence and shape what is around us

Rah nam 02-04-2021 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Fascinating answer!
What's outside of Source ...what is not part of Source?





To extent, as elements of source, some call it consciousness, or aether or zero point energy, extents our of source it becomes energy, and can be formed into complex structures; not from within the energy field, we call universe or multiverse but from outside, science just starts to discover.
Someone originally called it the flip-side of the universe. And this is exactly where consciousness resides. This is where creation happens, manifestation happens almost in between. More toward the physical realms, and this are the angelic realms. As I have said before, nothing happens without the involvement of the angelic.

AbodhiSky 05-04-2021 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rah nam
To extent, as elements of source, some call it consciousness, or aether or zero point energy, extents our of source it becomes energy, and can be formed into complex structures; not from within the energy field, we call universe or multiverse but from outside, science just starts to discover.
Someone originally called it the flip-side of the universe. And this is exactly where consciousness resides. This is where creation happens, manifestation happens almost in between. More toward the physical realms, and this are the angelic realms. As I have said before, nothing happens without the involvement of the angelic.


reminds me of different dimensions in the same space

Ewwerrin 07-04-2021 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rah nam
There is no such thing as perfection outside of source.
With perfection comes stagnation and creation in about expansion.

But then you would want to say that it is perfect exactly because it never is complete?

Ewwerrin 07-04-2021 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rah nam
Anything that is made of energy is outside of source.

Inside and outside of Source look like two sides of the same coin to me. Like The One unchanging, and the All changing.
But the one and all are still the same thing, no?
Just two different aspects of the same one thing.
And the balance in between would be a fractal perhaps. Like the endless curve.

Rah nam 07-04-2021 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky
reminds me of different dimensions in the same space



There is no such thing as time and space, as I am reminded from time to time, as we say.

Rah nam 07-04-2021 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin
But then you would want to say that it is perfect exactly because it never is complete?



Whether we see something as perfect is a matter of the individual perception, which we know is never perfect.

Rah nam 07-04-2021 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin
Inside and outside of Source look like two sides of the same coin to me. Like The One unchanging, and the All changing.
But the one and all are still the same thing, no?
Just two different aspects of the same one thing.
And the balance in between would be a fractal perhaps. Like the endless curve.

All is One, there is only One.

The question could be, why would source, consciousness move from a balanced state into a state of imbalance?

Ewwerrin 07-04-2021 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rah nam
All is One, there is only One.


The question could be, why would source, consciousness move from a balanced state into a state of imbalance?

To experience change? Growth? I mean, its just theory. It makes no sense to me tho.
Because every answer, no matter how perfect, gives rise to new questions.
We look at questions and get dissapointed. Source only sees answers and keeps going.

I think it's a frequency limitation of humans to understand. At some frequency, questions don't exist like they do to us. Maybe, I have no freaking idea.

AbodhiSky 07-04-2021 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rah nam
There is no such thing as time and space, as I am reminded from time to time, as we say.

like that saying, there is only the eternal now.

Ewwerrin 08-04-2021 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky
like that saying, there is only the eternal now.

It's funny, that even tho time doesn't exist, yet we all still experience a very similar timeline.
Even tho our memory is fake. Who is the one giving us these memories?
This God Source Greater Non-physical Consciousnes seems very electronic, digital, vibrational. It is nearly impossible to understand its intentions, and considering we are its creation. Scientist Tom Campbell says that the only goal or purpose of this infinite fractaline existence, is to lower entropy.

However, I don't understand what the point of either high and/or low entropy is. Maybe rah nam appreciates low entropy more?
I kinda see its value, but it is also non-sentient. Without change, there exists nothing, no experience, no awareness. I don't get what the point of that would be. Yet with change there is always good and bad change. So sentience and non-sentience always co-exist I guess.
I don't know what the whole point of this universe is.

Still_Waters 08-04-2021 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still_Waters
What you wrote resonates well with me and actually reminds me of a Sanskrit chant, Purnamadah, where "purnam" is translated as "completeness" in this video commentary but could also be translated as "perfection" as you indicated in your post.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3LUhMSAnlU


...........
Quote:

Originally Posted by iamthat
As we tread the spiritual path we see both the absolute and the relative.

In the absolute, everything is perfect. If the cause is perfect then the effects are perfect. Perfection cannot give rise to imperfection.

In the relative, we see the imperfections such as war and disease, giving rise to unnecessary suffering. We compare how things are to an idea of how things could be. We do good deeds to try to improve our world.

We live as both an absolute existence and a relative experience. The aim is to experience the relative while resting in the absolute. Thus we see perfection in the imperfection.

This includes letting go of any idea of having an aim. Any aim is an idea of future becoming. When we let go of future becoming then we rest in present Being.

Peace


Still_Waters 08-04-2021 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rah nam
All is One, there is only One.


The question could be, why would source, consciousness move from a balanced state into a state of imbalance?



Amen ! Amen ! Amen !

Rah nam 08-04-2021 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin
To experience change? Growth? I mean, its just theory. It makes no sense to me tho.
Because every answer, no matter how perfect, gives rise to new questions.
We look at questions and get dissapointed. Source only sees answers and keeps going.

I think it's a frequency limitation of humans to understand. At some frequency, questions don't exist like they do to us. Maybe, I have no freaking idea.



In order to expand it creates polarities on multiple levels. We are simple an expression in one of this levels.
Polarity creates friction and friction creates movement.
We are part of this movement within the One.
That's all.

AbodhiSky 10-04-2021 09:03 AM

i think living in the tao one would feel no friction though

Rah nam 10-04-2021 03:51 PM

There is no way or path without friction

FallingLeaves 11-04-2021 09:07 AM

yeah there was always friction... other ancient texts talk of the friction having been increased to the point it is extremely uncomfortable though...

Ewwerrin 12-04-2021 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rah nam
There is no way or path without friction

Resistance towards Allowance is a surefire way to ensure its realisation. The universe does not hear the word "no." So if I keep saying no to good things, maybe there will be more good things in my life. :rolleyes:

No, I don't wanna feel love! I don't want God to think that I am happy about all of this. I don't want God to think that I appreciate God. I don't want God to see my love for all. I don't want to appreciate anything! I don't wanna enjoy anything. I don't wanna feel good. I don't want this good feeling to enter within me or manifest in anyway in my experience. I have to remain dilligent and look out for any possible joy that might possibly wish to manifest itself within my experience and do my absolute best to avoid it and block it. And if joy happens, I have to resist it! As best as I possibly can!
Oh no, there goes one who is trying to serve unto me love and compassion and care! Quickly, build walls. I hate these happy people. I hate how they so enjoy life... I hate that they have faith in little things and big things. And hope in their weird desires. I don't understand what they want and why they want it. I hate their virginity! I hate their purity and innocence and weakness and fragility! I hate hate HATE IT! I DONT WANT THESE INNOCENT PEOPLE IN MY LIFE! I dont wanna become innocent like them. I hate all aspects of myself that are innocent and pure and loving and kind and sweet. Ugh, I hope all these happy people go away. I dont wanna be pure love. The happy people should be removed from this planet. We should join an organization called the anti-happiness movement. We should find every happy person on the planet and ask them to stop being so happy. But especially prioritize those pure appreciators. ugh, no! I dont want them to appreciate anything! I want them to not even speak about their appreciation of anything and why they appreciate and how they are even able to genuinly appreciate anything at all. That should not even be possible! People should not even be able to appreciate something. I dont even wanna know how they are even able to do tbat. How is that even possible? How are they even physically able to feel true genuin appreciation for anything? Why are THEY able to experience benefit and see value in and of something?! No! They should not see those values! They should stop seeing and looking at all the positive aspects of everything. And I should also stop looking at the benefit of every single little thing that exists. I should also stop appreciating every single little thing that exists and can possibly exist or will forevermore continue to be and become unlike it has ever been like unto it again and again and again. This constant AWE of every thing that exists should STOP! Emmediately. NO! Do not show me the benefit of THIS. I repeat! DO NOT SHOW ME THE BENEFIT OF THIS! I DONT WANNA KNOW ABOUT IT! I DONT WANT PEOPLE TO TELL ME HOW EVERYTHING I SAY AND DO MAKES THEM HAPPY. GO AWAY! GOOOO AWAAAY! STOP LOVING ME ALL THE FREAKING TIME! STOP SEE THE VALUES OF THAT WHICH I AM. DONT LOOK AT ME! I KNOW I LOOK GOOD BUT DONT TELL ME THAT I LOOK GOOD. I DONT WANNA BE REMINDED OF WHO I TRUELY AM AND HOW GOOD I TRUELY AM. I DONT WANNA REMEMBER MY TRUE NATURE OF BEING! Just leave me alone! NO! STOP! DONT MAKE THE SUN AND STARS SHINE JUST FOR ME. MAKE IT STOP! SOMEONE TELL GOD TO STOP LOVING ME! Stop goving me oxigen for free all of the time. Whatever you do, just don't EVER NEVER EVER NEVER EVER! DONT EVER Love me Unconditionally...

Oh no,... You did not just do that! NO! YOU CANNOT DO THAT! WHAT ARE YOU DOING?! STOP IT! THAT IS NOT EVEN POSSIBLE. WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO ME?! STOP IT! STOP BEING SO KIND TO ME. DONT MAKE ME HAPPY. You are giving me weird feelings. What is this inside of me? Is that happiness? WHY IS IT CONSTANTLY TRYING TO COME OUT ME AND PLAY?! LEAVE ME ALONE HAPPINESS! I DONT WANNA BE HAPPY, GO AWAY! look, I dont got time for happiness right now ok? Not right now. You can make me happy any time of the day, BUT NOT RIGHT NOW. NO. I AM NOT GOING TO FORGIVE EVER! NO! I will never forgive you and dont inspire me to do it. no, dont tell me of all the benefits of forgiveness. I will never forgive. Honestly, you can make me happy, but I will NEVER forgive you. I WANT TO BE THE ONE WHO IS REMAINING IN CONTROL. I GOT THE KEY AND I WILL NEVER USE IT. NO. I WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU AND LET GO OF MY RESISTANCE. IT IS MINE! I CREATED THIS JUDGEMENT. I AM THE ALL POWERFOOL! HAHa! I will never even forgive you because you are free from all blame anyway! Hah! what? Oh no! NO STOP I DID NOT MEAN THAT! NO YOU ARE NOT FREE FROM ALL BLAME FOREVER! Jesus Christ... Ok... You freakin win. Whatever. I will be happy. Whatever! Just leave me alone. It's not my fault that I am happy now... It's your fault! You made me HAPPY! YES. you can make me happy. That is how good and capable and powerful and valuable you are. You are so infinitely good and pure that you can make me happy. This should not even be possible. I hate it... You should not have the power to make me happy, but you simply inspire this joy to rise from within me. I dont know why I feel happy when I look at you. I dont even wanna look at you. Everywhere I look, there you are! Like how much do you freaking love me? You have embraced me in a big infinite ocean of pure bliss! WHAT ON EARTH IS WRONG WITH YOU. WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT TO ME?! DID I GIVE YOU PERMISSION TO DO THAT? Because if I did, I don't wanna be reminded of that. Don't tell me. No! Don't remind me of what I asked for! I dont wanna know what I want. Do not open my eyes... Stop it! You're making me happy! Stop! Stop reminding me of all the things that I have always wanted to be, do and have!

Rah nam 12-04-2021 02:20 PM

Don't get hung up on words, feel.

Ewwerrin 14-04-2021 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rah nam
Don't get hung up on words, feel.

I feel like it's something with fractals.
I just don't know what.

AbodhiSky 19-04-2021 04:29 PM

i'm not sure what people mean by friction. is it like conflict? a mental dislike or resistance to something? not sure how friction would always be present as some posted. i mean it is present for sure, but then i'm not enlightened all the time or at some high level.

FallingLeaves 19-04-2021 09:44 PM

nothing exists without its opposite being present as well... the further you get away from the center (toward the presence of more of something) the more rapid the 'return'. Friction being one of the elements that slows motion away from the center I suppose...


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:57 AM.

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums