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-   -   Two amazing sources of life. (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=141173)

FallingLeaves 23-08-2021 09:43 PM


Originally Posted by ayar415
What is the general meaning of that word "time"? And why won't it exist indefinitely?

What other form (or forms) does time have?

you probably have some 'sensation' of time passing. You might realize it is different depending on whether you are bored, waiting for something, enjoying something, or trying to reach some goal but it is still some sensation of the passing. That was is what I was referring to as the general meaning people have for time.

I personally suspect that that aspect of it is akin to another spatial dimension, in which the rules have been carefully crafted let us learn about a broader concept of time. As such it is rather like careening down-river in a deep gorge, where you can only guess at forward (or sometimes remember it) and remember back and never get to look to the side.

If I am right and it is akin to another physical dimension there is no reason one couldn't get out of the river or out of the gorge, and we do have various metaphysical statements that might support the idea some have done just that. As well we have a variety of popular books and shows about people who have been jolted out of the river in one way or another, usually for a short time to get them to another river or to a different point in the same river though lol... given that even that is conceptually strange enough not to be appealling, the mind stretch required to contemplate something like flying above the river and gorge is just too much I suppose.

But anyway if time is like another spatial dimension after all, it is easy to see that some knowledgeable entity could change its makeup, e.g. get rid of rivers/gorges or terraform it or some other way of making it seem different to our senses while still essentially being another spatial dimension.

Meanwhile, the concept that it aims to teach... that measurement of change is possible and all the things we learn about that while we are stuck here... will still be valid no matter what form the 'terrain' might take in the future.

as far as why it won't exist in its present form indefinitely, all I've got to go on is a biblical statement that there would be a new heavens and a new earth, and I'm just supposing a new way to experience the thing we currently call 'time' would be part of that.

The Cobbler's Apprentice 24-08-2021 07:34 AM

After a few misunderstandings, I still wonder why any talk of "new life" now is often seen as some sort or "new age" idea, when in fact it is grounded deeply within every major Faith Tradition.

The source of new life is Christ. The Universal Christ. Called by many names. Available NOW without price*

* Except (!) keep in mind the words of T.S.Eliot, from Four Quartets:-

"A condition of complete simplicity
Costing not less than everything"

mickiel 24-08-2021 09:53 AM

The future is more about life than death ,more about spending time than measuring it. More about the joy we have not learned than the joys we have messed
Up with our rediculous ways and means. The tree of life and the water of life are designed to cause us to grow and live and move and have our new beginning.

DavidHenson 24-08-2021 03:31 PM


Originally Posted by The Cobbler's Apprentice
No. Simply learning from many Christian mystics such as Meister Eckhart

Okay. What does that mean? How is one in Christ? What are the old things that passed away and what were the new things? Are these just empty slogans from a long dead scholar or prophet? What has Meister Eckhart instructed you on the subject?

Originally Posted by The Cobbler's Apprentice
Sorry, not a clue what you are babbling about.

Babbling? You said that one doesn't need to die to start living, which isn't correct. I asked if you had to live to start dying, which you do. For example, God told Adam if he ate from the tree that in dying he would die. In Hebrew. That means that he wouldn't live forever as he had been created to do but that he would begin to die at that time. It would be a slow process.

The point being that the new life in Christ is a spiritual life gained upon acceptance of Christ as savior. As he himself said "Let the (spiritually) dead bury the (physically) dead." The new spiritual life began there for those people.

Their old ways died and were replaced by new ones.

To be in eternity is an empty slogan because it would be anywhere from the beginning of time, i.e. the creation of the universe, and on into eternity.

Originally Posted by The Cobbler's Apprentice
Edit:- oh I get it! I'm slow sometimes.....yes except, not accept.

Oh, I doubt that you are any slower than I am. I can be really slow at times. No problem there.

The questions were intended to establish whether you meant to accept or except. To include or exclude. Either would have been acceptable. Or even exceptional. You are a little defensive, perhaps? That is understandable.

DavidHenson 24-08-2021 03:49 PM


Originally Posted by The Cobbler's Apprentice
Why do my words draw forth such nonsensical comments?
Now I know!

No, I don't think you do. It may be a case of the nonsensical comments having fallen and died, bringing many more like it.

In the Christian text from which you quote we are advised to test even the inspired expressions. Even the Bible itself and the words of the prophets. If, on one hand you are not humble instruction may be difficult for you; on the other hand you should expect and even encourage discussion and debate.

Just remember the spiritual guru is always doubted in his own territory. That is probably a good thing, don't you think?

DavidHenson 24-08-2021 04:05 PM


Originally Posted by The Cobbler's Apprentice
After a few misunderstandings [. . .]

It's interesting to watch you struggle with these things.

The Cobbler's Apprentice 24-08-2021 04:48 PM

David, I am very conversant with the New Testament scriptures.

They speak of new life in Christ.

I'm sorry that you find such a concept difficult to understand and feel the need to apparently enjoy watching another struggle with their understanding.

Quite frankly, your own convoluted questions and assertions are an example of why I find my own Pure Land path far preferable to what sometimes passes as Christian spirituality.

"Come, just as you are"

If you struggle with that, I do not rejoice.

AbodhiSky 24-08-2021 04:55 PM


Originally Posted by The Cobbler's Apprentice
"A condition of complete simplicity
Costing not less than everything"

That's a wonderful little saying to me. When one sees that everything that comes up in my mind is ego, there is nothing left to do is there? Even that I just said is ego. Then there is just now as it is. Without a running commentary on it in my mind.

I am then born again. Brand new. Innocent. One never was the running commentary in one's mind in the first place.

sky123 24-08-2021 05:02 PM


Originally Posted by The Cobbler's Apprentice

"Come, just as you are"

Beautiful :smile:

AbodhiSky 24-08-2021 05:17 PM


Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
you probably have some 'sensation' of time passing.

It's required for dancing. One knows the timing or beat of the music. To me, the fact we can know or be aware of the beat, and dance to it, move our body to it, proves the "now moment" a lot of spiritual philosophers refer to as a "thing" is actually a slice of time. We don't exist in a moment, we exist in a slice of time I estimate to be around 4 seconds. Awareness contains this slice of time.

This is what makes spiritual insights possible. One is aware of oneself a few seconds before and then recognizes that gap between a thought, an identification with the thought and the perception processing of it mentally or physically. So insights also require our awareness of a slice of time and not just one moment.

That's not to say time actually exists in any real sense as this all could be a function of linear or segmented memory in the present or moment. The brain could segment memory of perception on some measure or scale and thus give one the ability in the moment to accurately predict what comes next, like a song beat.

One fascinating thing is how memory can be experienced in the now. Thus what gives the "experience" of being in time. But then everything is moving, even atoms in my hand, doesn't movement require time? The atom was here and is now here...

I don't think time can ever be perceived in any way except conceptually as we are only in the now. In the same way, we can never really perceive ourselves except conceptually, as we are that which perceives, not that which is perceived.

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