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-   -   Two amazing sources of life. (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=141173)

davidmartin 16-09-2021 09:08 AM

There were factions in early church. some believed in hell literally and some didn't. so Matthew and Revelation were influenced by one side and Paul and John's gospel you see another side since they don't mention hell. Mark only does in 1 place that i don't think was there originally. Inconsistent!
This looks like a contradiction but it's not
There were at least 3 major groupings in the earliest church and they had a hand influencing the scripture
This isn't scripture contradicting but illuminating the differences of opinions
what the original, primitive Christians believed - is a matter of intuition on our part, but i'm confident they didn't teach any kind of hell (divine justice - sure)

mickiel 16-09-2021 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmartin
There were factions in early church. some believed in hell literally and some didn't. so Matthew and Revelation were influenced by one side and Paul and John's gospel you see another side since they don't mention hell. Mark only does in 1 place that i don't think was there originally. Inconsistent!
This looks like a contradiction but it's not
There were at least 3 major groupings in the earliest church and they had a hand influencing the scripture
This isn't scripture contradicting but illuminating the differences of opinions
what the original, primitive Christians believed - is a matter of intuition on our part, but i'm confident they didn't teach any kind of hell (divine justice - sure)



I don't think they taught any kind of hell either.

The Anointed 17-09-2021 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmartin
There were factions in early church. some believed in hell literally and some didn't. so Matthew and Revelation were influenced by one side and Paul and John's gospel you see another side


Correct! Matthew and Revelation, reveal the truth of God's Word and that is, that the penalty for the unrepentant sinful disembodied spirits=minds, is the 'SECOND' and eternal death from which there is no return.

And the words in the fourth gospel, are the words of John who wrote the book of Revelation.

And what of Paul? Do you believe as Mickiel does, and that is, that the blood of Christ save ever single person.

Ezekiel 18: 24; if a righteous person stops doing good and starts doing all the evil, disgusting things that evil people do, will he go on living? No! None of the good he did will be remembered. He will die because of his unfaithfulness and his sins.

There are in the book of Hebrews some solid hints that it was written by Paul.

Hebrews 6: 4-6; For how can those who abandon their faith be brought back to repent again? They were once in God's light; they tasted heaven's gift and received their share of the Holy Spirit; they knew from experience that God's word is good, and they had felt the powers of the coming age. And then they abandoned their faith! It is impossible to bring them back to repent again, because they are again crucifying the Son of God and exposing him to public shame.

So then, what happens to those whose sins can never be forgiven?

2 Peter 2: 20-22; If people have escaped from the corrupting forces of the world through their knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and then are again caught and conquered by them, such people are in a worse state at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been much better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than to know it and then turn away from the sacred command that was given them. What happened to them shows that the proverbs are true: “A dog goes back to what it has vomited” and “A pig that has been washed goes back to roll in the mud.”

Throughout the scriptures from Genesis to Revelation, it is revealed that the eternal punishment for the unrepentant sinners, is death. All have sinned and 'ALL' must die once, then the mind=spirit goes off into judgement from where the mind can still earnestly repent of their sins and find rest as they await the great Judgement.

As far as the prophets, the gospels, and the letters of the apostles are concerned, they are all in agreement. Death is the eternal punishment for the wicked. To say otherwise, is to refuse to acknowledge the truth as revealed by the Lord.

mickiel 17-09-2021 11:51 AM

I personally see no reason for the condemnation of any man . In my view Jesus did enough to save everyone , all are given salvation freely, especially the worst in humanity, they need it more..

Miss Hepburn 17-09-2021 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickiel
I personally see no reason for the condemnation of any man . In my view Jesus did enough to save everyone ,
all are given salvation freely, especially the worst in humanity,
they need it more..

Yes!
(I know I'm terrible :tongue:...but I don't think they were 'condemned' even before Jesus came.
Did they reap what they sowed? Sure. Different than being eternally condemned to a hellish place in the Afterlife.)

The Anointed 17-09-2021 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Different than being eternally condemned to a hellish place in the Afterlife.)


And you, Miss Hepburn, like all serious biblical students, know that eternal death, which is the penalty for the unrepentant sinners, is the eternal punishment from which there is no return, and not the punishment of eternal torment in the lake burning with fire and sulfur, as taught by the Roman church and all her daughter denominations, who were spawned from her false teachings.

Love ya mate, and may our God preserve you.

mickiel 17-09-2021 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Yes!
(I know I'm terrible :tongue:...but I don't think they were 'condemned' even before Jesus came.
Did they reap what they sowed? Sure. Different than being eternally condemned to a hellish place in the Afterlife.)



Oh yes we reap what we sow..in my belief we all have escaped the doctrines of devil's, who waNt us gone, the hordes of religions that want us gone, and our serious lack of the knowledge. Of salvation. All have sinned, and Jesus came here seeking out those unbelievers, he came not for the righteous people, before sinners like me. Now I have hope and I know that no Christian can take away my salvation. Hell is a myth, nothing can separate a sinner from salvation.

BigJohn 17-09-2021 08:21 PM

The only thing that can keep a person from salvation is the person themself...... it is a personal choice: theirs and theirs alone.

BigJohn 17-09-2021 08:24 PM

Hell exist people thar is what some people want for whatever reason.

As for the Bible: Hell was never there. Others, for whatever reason, cleverly added it there, and for the most part, were suscessful in doing that.

Molearner 17-09-2021 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn
The only thing that can keep a person from salvation is the person themself...... it is a personal choice: theirs and theirs alone.


Enter reincarnation…..if we refuse salvation ? If God is merciful we must reject the idea that his mercy is conditional. Maybe the hell that people are fond of believing is their expulsion back to this life.


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