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Adept 21-01-2014 04:35 AM

Judaism and Occultism
 
Has anyone else noticed that Judaism seems to have some correlation to modern occultism. I was raised Jewish and will never lose my heritage, I'm certainly proud of it. Yet I think it is also what boosted me completely into Thelema and Luciferianism. To start, Judaism is a rather "elitist" (I don't mean this negatively) in that we are proud, chosen, you can't just casually convert like with other religions. Also, Jewish mysticism. The Tree of Life may be the most important symbol in western occultism. And let's not forget openmindedness - Judaism evolves unlike other religions. We can take other paths, see the stories as metaphor, anything like that and it's just part of the religion.

Just a mini-thought-rant. Any thoughts?

Yamah 21-01-2014 05:05 AM

Judaism is Exclusive but not necessarily Elitist. Important distinction. When someone's trying to convert we don't look for 'the best of the best' or the cream of the crop... we just check to see if the person will follow the rules (and knows what he's getting into).

Yes, the Tree of Life... adopted as the central symbol of Hermetics (and then twisted by poor understanding)... used as the 'big secret' of many societies, including The Order of the Golden Dawn (before being partially disseminated). Also the inspiration of Tarot cards, an important tool in modern occultism.

Adept 21-01-2014 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamah
Judaism is Exclusive but not necessarily Elitist. Important distinction. When someone's trying to convert we don't look for 'the best of the best' or the cream of the crop... we just check to see if the person will follow the rules (and knows what he's getting into).

Yes, the Tree of Life... adopted as the central symbol of Hermetics (and then twisted by poor understanding)... used as the 'big secret' of many societies, including The Order of the Golden Dawn (before being partially disseminated). Also the inspiration of Tarot cards, an important tool in modern occultism.


How can a symbol be twisted? The meanings aren't objective.

Albalida 21-01-2014 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adept
Has anyone else noticed that Judaism seems to have some correlation to modern occultism. I was raised Jewish and will never lose my heritage, I'm certainly proud of it. Yet I think it is also what boosted me completely into Thelema and Luciferianism. To start, Judaism is a rather "elitist" (I don't mean this negatively) in that we are proud, chosen, you can't just casually convert like with other religions. Also, Jewish mysticism. The Tree of Life may be the most important symbol in western occultism. And let's not forget openmindedness - Judaism evolves unlike other religions. We can take other paths, see the stories as metaphor, anything like that and it's just part of the religion.

Just a mini-thought-rant. Any thoughts?


Judaic mysticism did form the basis of several traditions of Western Ceremonial Magick.

Modern occultism does also have influences from Core Shamanism (which could be more problematic because these practices were basically stolen from indigenous tribes who should have had option to be "elitist" because that would keep their sacred secrets respected), Theosophy (which in turn also has Eastern occult influences), science (every time we use the word "energy" in a woowoo sense of the term, Richard Dawkins' blood pressure goes up a little bit more), and now chaos magick (very modern tradition that incorporates pop culture references as Jungian keys to the magical psyche).

If you're proud of the influence, that might be a sign that it was done right. A lot of people from other source influences would look at what their culture has become in the occult and go "Are you serious??"

Yamah 21-01-2014 05:30 AM

"How can a symbol be twisted? The meanings aren't objective."

That's how.

Adept 21-01-2014 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamah
"How can a symbol be twisted? The meanings aren't objective."

That's how.


Care to elaborate?

Yamah 21-01-2014 07:31 AM

The Tree of Life is a set of symbols that represent Divine Truths. They have specific, objective meanings and associations.

Though many texts disagree on certain specifics they all agree on the generalities and their disagreements can usually be resolved by understanding that they approach the symbols from different perspectives.

The best example would be with the 4th symbol. The ancient name for it was 'Gedulah' or Greatness and the modern name for it is 'Chesed' or Kindness. Though the name for it has changed all sources agree that this symbol represents the force of Expansion. Nobody says it is a force of Contraction and there is no room whatsoever for saying so. The change of the name can be understood by following the perspectives used in Kabbalah through the ages and their nuances. Nonetheless, the general understanding remains the same.

In Hermetic Kabbalah the tree of life was taken in many different directions through gnosticism, so much so that all the meanings have been skewed. Even basics like how to apply it to the human body (traditionally Chesed is Right, Gevurah is Left; in Hermetic, Chesed is usually Left and Gevurah is usually Right) have been skewed. Many other things have been misinterpretted because the interpretters' understandings didn't have a proper foundation in Torah, Gemarah and other Jewish texts and usually didn't even have a good understanding of the Hebrew language and how it relates to the tree of life (an essential foundation).

Not having a proper foundation leaves the mind floating through the air, reaching conclusions without backing and following assumptions to half-truths which lead to drifting falsehoods. True Knowledge is like a Tree, not a cloud.

Adept 21-01-2014 07:36 AM

Objective implies a truth independent of the mind, of belief, etc. You can assign any symbolism to the tree of life you want, and for you, it'll be valid. That's the beauty of occultism. To say the ToL has an objective, proper way would be like saying a pentagram has one, objective meaning. It's restriction, ego, and if you've studied the tree you should see the flaw here.

Yamah 21-01-2014 07:38 AM

PS. Albalida, When I started learning about Kabbalah from authentic sources I looked back at everything I knew from Hermetics and basically said exactly that... "Are you serious??"

Yamah 21-01-2014 07:43 AM

Adept: I understand your opinion makes sense to you from a gnostic hermetic perspective and, as I've stated, that perspective is antithetical to the Jewish understanding of the tree of life. The TREE of life.

Why do you think that name was chosen? A tree has roots; yes it grows, develops, blossoms and to an extent changes but the trunk is solid, and the roots are strong. If your understanding isn't a proper derivation of the source body of knowledge then you are no longer exploring the TREE, you are instead lost in your own ego and understanding, disconnected from the truth.

Adept 21-01-2014 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamah
Adept: I understand your opinion makes sense to you from a gnostic hermetic perspective and, as I've stated, that perspective is antithetical to the Jewish understanding of the tree of life. The TREE of life.

Why do you think that name was chosen? A tree has roots; yes it grows, develops, blossoms and to an extent changes but the trunk is solid, and the roots are strong. If your understanding isn't a proper derivation of the source body of knowledge then you are no longer exploring the TREE, you are instead lost in your own ego and understanding, disconnected from the truth.


I'm not gnostic, actually.

I think if what you're doing is working you shouldn't have to defend it to me. But don't be pointing fingers claiming egoism when you're the one with the "my path is correct" mentality. :)

If you're so well versed in Hermeticism, you should realize that being stuck and restricted in the fifth sphere is an ego caused hangup, before the abyss.

Yamah 21-01-2014 07:15 PM

Adept: Calm down. Stop assuming. Stop ego inflating. Stop reading between the lines.

I am not speaking defensively, I am not pointing fingers. I have no 'my path is correct' mentality (no more so than anyone else anyways). I am not attacking you, I am attempting to have a discussion.

The only reason I brought up ego is as a response to your accusation of ego. I'm trying to give a 'tit for tat'. But since we're on the subject, let me elaborate my understanding of Ego.

What is Ego? Ego is the Self. To be lost in ego thus means to be lost in one's self; building up the self's esteem, the self's worth, the self's righteousness, etc. While on a lone path it is very easy to fall into Ego because you have only your self for company. If you do not connect to anything outside of yourself then you are only exploring your own mind. This is why connecting to a group, tradition, teacher, spirit, God or whatever is so important - so that you aren't just lost in your own ego but instead are engaging something else... thus quieting the ego to an extent. If what you are engaging happens to be something true then it is that much more worth while.

Gnostics, Eclectics and other solitaries claim that they are not exploring their own egos but rather the depths of their spirits, their spirit guides, the spiritual world to which they are connected or other realms accessed through meditative or spiritual means. Some of these people may be right but in my experience the vast majority are lost in their own imaginations. Those that ARE accessing some kind of spiritual realm aren't experiencing it purely but are experiencing it through the cloudy lens of their own egos, confirming things that are imagined and intuiting the unconfirmable.

I personally used to be an eclectic until I realized how far into my own ego I had wandered. My desire to find truth, clarity and morality led me down the path I'm currently on. I've met many people, before and after my 'switch' from all kinds of paths. I still have plenty of ego left and I'm aware of it but at least now I know how to identify it.

Adept 21-01-2014 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamah
Adept: Calm down. Stop assuming. Stop ego inflating. Stop reading between the lines.

I am not speaking defensively, I am not pointing fingers. I have no 'my path is correct' mentality (no more so than anyone else anyways). I am not attacking you, I am attempting to have a discussion.

The only reason I brought up ego is as a response to your accusation of ego. I'm trying to give a 'tit for tat'. But since we're on the subject, let me elaborate my understanding of Ego.

What is Ego? Ego is the Self. To be lost in ego thus means to be lost in one's self; building up the self's esteem, the self's worth, the self's righteousness, etc. While on a lone path it is very easy to fall into Ego because you have only your self for company. If you do not connect to anything outside of yourself then you are only exploring your own mind. This is why connecting to a group, tradition, teacher, spirit, God or whatever is so important - so that you aren't just lost in your own ego but instead are engaging something else... thus quieting the ego to an extent. If what you are engaging happens to be something true then it is that much more worth while.

Gnostics, Eclectics and other solitaries claim that they are not exploring their own egos but rather the depths of their spirits, their spirit guides, the spiritual world to which they are connected or other realms accessed through meditative or spiritual means. Some of these people may be right but in my experience the vast majority are lost in their own imaginations. Those that ARE accessing some kind of spiritual realm aren't experiencing it purely but are experiencing it through the cloudy lens of their own egos, confirming things that are imagined and intuiting the unconfirmable.

I personally used to be an eclectic until I realized how far into my own ego I had wandered. My desire to find truth, clarity and morality led me down the path I'm currently on. I've met many people, before and after my 'switch' from all kinds of paths. I still have plenty of ego left and I'm aware of it but at least now I know how to identify it.


But I'm not making assumptions. You are assuming that I am gnostic, that I am unaware of my own ego, even that I need to "calm down" lol. You don't get under my skin, friend. This has turned into a discussion about ego and whether the Tree of Life has objective meaning or not, which is fine by me. We both know the tree, so you know the fifth sphere of strength / restriction. While having a solid grasp on a system is certainly strength, would you not agree that claiming your system is objectively true is also restriction? It is a double edged sphere, a place where the ego is truly tested and you must overcome it. I know that currently my position, getting better every day, but it's a long process. If I was going to make an educated assumption I'd say you're right there with me :)

Nice to have a friends in the same location.

7luminaries 24-01-2014 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamah
The Tree of Life is a set of symbols that represent Divine Truths. They have specific, objective meanings and associations.

Though many texts disagree on certain specifics they all agree on the generalities and their disagreements can usually be resolved by understanding that they approach the symbols from different perspectives.

The best example would be with the 4th symbol. The ancient name for it was 'Gedulah' or Greatness and the modern name for it is 'Chesed' or Kindness. Though the name for it has changed all sources agree that this symbol represents the force of Expansion. Nobody says it is a force of Contraction and there is no room whatsoever for saying so. The change of the name can be understood by following the perspectives used in Kabbalah through the ages and their nuances. Nonetheless, the general understanding remains the same.

In Hermetic Kabbalah the tree of life was taken in many different directions through gnosticism, so much so that all the meanings have been skewed. Even basics like how to apply it to the human body (traditionally Chesed is Right, Gevurah is Left; in Hermetic, Chesed is usually Left and Gevurah is usually Right) have been skewed. Many other things have been misinterpretted because the interpretters' understandings didn't have a proper foundation in Torah, Gemarah and other Jewish texts and usually didn't even have a good understanding of the Hebrew language and how it relates to the tree of life (an essential foundation).

Not having a proper foundation leaves the mind floating through the air, reaching conclusions without backing and following assumptions to half-truths which lead to drifting falsehoods. True Knowledge is like a Tree, not a cloud.


Yamah -- I didn't realise this about Hermetics...I don't know as much about it.

Do you know what was the basis given in Hermetics for this switch? Surely they must have understood that they were reversing the traditional association of expansion with greatness/lovingkindness/compassion - right hand of God and contraction with awe/strength/judgment - left hand of God.

I do a lot of healing work with guides that we often call archangels. And so I am particularly curious. I always found it interesting that the archangel representing the force of expansion is so serious and mild in his compassionate and loving manner. (I see them both as male). His intensity is purely in his focus and in his strength of character. In other words, the expansive force of love is very calm, disciplined, and strong. Whereas the contracting force of strength is very intense in purity of emotion and expression of love and truth.

In other words, strength is in love. And love is in strength.
Was this -- or something related -- in any way behind the "switch", which otherwise would be very hard indeed to justify with any clarity? Just wondering.

Adept if you have any information on this, please also feel free to share.
Thank you!

Peace & blessings,
7L

Adept 24-01-2014 07:07 PM

Honestly I have no idea why they switched it. The left has always been associated with the restrictive aspects. I don't think the distinction works either way though, there is really no consistency through the sides, at least not the way I see the Tree. I chose different, mirroring paths for the passive and active aspects.

RabbiO 24-01-2014 07:33 PM

I must be looking at the wrong material. I have read about the reversal, Yamah's comment was not the first time I have seen this mentioned. However every illustration I have run across from non-Jewish esoteric sources always has the sefirot in the right order and on the proper side of the tree.

I must not get out much!

Peter

Adept 24-01-2014 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RabbiO
I must be looking at the wrong material. I have read about the reversal, Yamah's comment was not the first time I have seen this mentioned. However every illustration I have run across from non-Jewish esoteric sources always has the sefirot in the right order and on the proper side of the tree.

I must not get out much!

Peter


It's not the sephirot it's simply the label. Usually Chesed is on the right but Hermeticism has it as if the tree is facing you, saying Chesed is on the left.

7luminaries 24-01-2014 09:36 PM

LOL @ RabbiO...hahaha! Me either!

Adept, thank you for responding...maybe Yamah will bring some esoteric info here to light for us :smile:

Yama...do you know why the tree &/or the labels are reversed? I talked a bit about it in my above email, but I have no idea if my musings are anywhere near on point and if so, why they wouldn't have footnoted their reasoning somewhere, LOL...but YOU may! :smile:

Peace & blessings,
7L

Yamah 26-01-2014 08:01 AM

I don't know what really happened but I suspect it's like Adept stated, that they just looked at the image as if a person was in there facing you - so the right side of the tree (which they agree is chesed) is applied to the left arm. This was probably done innocently and ignorantly.

7luminaries 27-01-2014 02:33 AM

LOL...wow what a letdown, hahaha :D
I suppose that's why there is no concrete explanation given, haha...
as if it was done in ignorance, then the usual reaction by many is just to studiously ignore it...and hope the rest of us don't notice that there was no explanation given :tongue:

Thanks for your response.
Peace & blessings,
7L

Yamah 04-02-2014 04:27 PM

If you want something a little deeper...

The tree of life as we have it is Good. There is a parallel tree, however, that belongs to the Qliphoth (the shells / demons). It goes up along with the tree as evil exists at every level. The one difference between the two trees is that the tree of the Qliphoth is BACKWARDS.

Adept 04-02-2014 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamah
If you want something a little deeper...

The tree of life as we have it is Good. There is a parallel tree, however, that belongs to the Qliphoth (the shells / demons). It goes up along with the tree as evil exists at every level. The one difference between the two trees is that the tree of the Qliphoth is BACKWARDS.


Yeah like 10 - 1, not reversing right and left. Hermeticism may have switched the right and left but it's not the tree of the Qliphoth.

Also there's no evil in Judaism, not last I looked.

Adept 04-02-2014 04:49 PM

Eh I lied, there's evil but not in the dualistic sense like that.

Yamah 06-02-2014 05:54 PM

Actually the qliphothic tree runs up parallel to the... human tree? like turning a page upside down and drawing on the back.

There's actually quite a bit of dualism in Judaism, starting from the first letter of the Torah, Bet, which is numerically 2. Following this we have Tohu and Bohu, Waters above and below, Man and Woman, and the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Unity is a big part of Judaism; so is Duality. Understanding how they work together (the duality of unity and duality) is one of the great philosophical questions that Kabbalists, Chassids and Masters of Mussar struggle with.

Adept 06-02-2014 06:47 PM

Interesting!

As for the qlipothic tree though, that's still not simply switching left and right. Hermeticism is very much about the light over darkness in that context.

Yamah 07-02-2014 04:00 PM

Yup, i know. I've heard people try to make something out of this mirroring thing but i don't know think that's the actual explanation, which is why I didn't bother mentioning it in the first place. Still interesting.

ZoeZoe 24-05-2014 03:06 AM

Although I have very little knowledge of the Tree of Life, The Qabalah, the Kabbalah, the Kabalah, I feel it is the right path for me. I am studying many books, traditional one by Rabbis and newer ones by Occultist such as Knight and Fortune. It always brings such awe and respect, everytime I learn something new, everytime I can connect with the process and understand the beautiful way that God works in my life.

Jameyson72 20-08-2014 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adept
You can assign any symbolism to the tree of life you want, and for you, it'll be valid.


This is true, but as it deviates from its original meaning, it becomes "twisted" to those who practice Judaism.

AHIYAH 16-04-2018 10:27 PM

I know where its written that the ToL is in the feminine but it must also be true that a ToL must also be in the masculine perhaps.

indefinable 07-01-2019 01:26 PM

there is something wrong about the whole thing

Pewdiepie 16-03-2019 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamah
What is Ego? Ego is the Self. To be lost in ego thus means to be lost in one's self; building up the self's esteem, the self's worth, the self's righteousness, etc. While on a lone path it is very easy to fall into Ego because you have only your self for company. If you do not connect to anything outside of yourself then you are only exploring your own mind. This is why connecting to a group, tradition, teacher, spirit, God or whatever is so important - so that you aren't just lost in your own ego but instead are engaging something else... thus quieting the ego to an extent. If what you are engaging happens to be something true then it is that much more worth while.

Gnostics, Eclectics and other solitaries claim that they are not exploring their own egos but rather the depths of their spirits, their spirit guides, the spiritual world to which they are connected or other realms accessed through meditative or spiritual means. Some of these people may be right but in my experience the vast majority are lost in their own imaginations. Those that ARE accessing some kind of spiritual realm aren't experiencing it purely but are experiencing it through the cloudy lens of their own egos, confirming things that are imagined and intuiting the unconfirmable.

I personally used to be an eclectic until I realized how far into my own ego I had wandered. My desire to find truth, clarity and morality led me down the path I'm currently on. I've met many people, before and after my 'switch' from all kinds of paths. I still have plenty of ego left and I'm aware of it but at least now I know how to identify it.



Don't forget that Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai, the supposed author of the Zohar, lived in solitude for 13 years with his son and had many spiritual revelations during that time.

According to the Babylonian Talmud, Rabbi Shimon bar Yohai criticized the Roman government and was forced to go into hiding with his son for thirteen years. They sheltered in a cave (which local tradition places in Peki'in). Next to the mouth of the cave a carob tree sprang up and a spring of fresh water gushed forth. Provided against hunger and thirst they cast off their clothing except during prayers and sabbath to keep them from wearing out, embedded themselves in the sand up to their necks, and studied the Torah all day long. He and his son left the cave when they received a bat qol (divine revelation) saying that the Roman emperor had died and consequently all his decrees were abolished...

Although his circumstances were extraordinary, it is still a good example of how solitude can grow spirituality without being clouded by the ego

dybmh 15-04-2019 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pewdiepie
Don't forget that Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai, the supposed author of the Zohar, lived in solitude for 13 years with his son and had many spiritual revelations during that time.

According to the Babylonian Talmud, Rabbi Shimon bar Yohai criticized the Roman government and was forced to go into hiding with his son for thirteen years. They sheltered in a cave (which local tradition places in Peki'in). Next to the mouth of the cave a carob tree sprang up and a spring of fresh water gushed forth. Provided against hunger and thirst they cast off their clothing except during prayers and sabbath to keep them from wearing out, embedded themselves in the sand up to their necks, and studied the Torah all day long. He and his son left the cave when they received a bat qol (divine revelation) saying that the Roman emperor had died and consequently all his decrees were abolished...

Although his circumstances were extraordinary, it is still a good example of how solitude can grow spirituality without being clouded by the ego


Hello Everyone, just getting caught up on this thread. Also ( I'm a newbie :icon_eek: )

I want to comment on the most recent post and the word "solitude". I think the conventional understanding of the writing of the Zohar by Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai is that he had divine assistance while dwelling in the cave. In this way, he was not in solitude.

I think it's an important distinction because otherwise a person may believe that the Zohar is a creation of Rabbi Shimon.

Scholarly Tarot 18-01-2021 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dybmh
Hello Everyone, just getting caught up on this thread. Also ( I'm a newbie :icon_eek: )

I want to comment on the most recent post and the word "solitude". I think the conventional understanding of the writing of the Zohar by Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai is that he had divine assistance while dwelling in the cave. In this way, he was not in solitude.

I think it's an important distinction because otherwise a person may believe that the Zohar is a creation of Rabbi Shimon.


Shalom!
Just as a heads up, Gershom Scholem, one of the very finest Kabbalistic scholars to ever publish, has noted and demonstrated with actually really good evidence and analysis, that it was Moses de Leon who authored the Zohar. He was also possibly helped by his very good friend and outstanding Kabbalist in medieval Castile Joseph Gikatila. Leon was living in Guadalajara in the heart of Castile at the time in 1280 and there abouts. He writes extensively about this in his book "Major Trends in Jewish Mysticism," and talks about it more in his book "Kabbalah."

GlitterRose 20-01-2021 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scholarly Tarot
Shalom!
Just as a heads up, Gershom Scholem, one of the very finest Kabbalistic scholars to ever publish, has noted and demonstrated with actually really good evidence and analysis, that it was Moses de Leon who authored the Zohar. He was also possibly helped by his very good friend and outstanding Kabbalist in medieval Castile Joseph Gikatila. Leon was living in Guadalajara in the heart of Castile at the time in 1280 and there abouts. He writes extensively about this in his book "Major Trends in Jewish Mysticism," and talks about it more in his book "Kabbalah."


Gershom Scholem is very knowledgeable. I came across him while watching some lectures on Kabbalah.

Scholarly Tarot 21-01-2021 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlitterRose
Gershom Scholem is very knowledgeable. I came across him while watching some lectures on Kabbalah.


He was. One of the best in his day. Now then, that doesn't mean he was always right either, lol....
I know the medieval scholar Norman F. Cantor had quite a few disagreements with him, as did others I am sure. Hey we gotta read all sides thought eh? That's the best way I think, so long as we don't take any of them as the final say so. Easier said than done...

GlitterRose 05-02-2021 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scholarly Tarot
He was. One of the best in his day. Now then, that doesn't mean he was always right either, lol....
I know the medieval scholar Norman F. Cantor had quite a few disagreements with him, as did others I am sure. Hey we gotta read all sides thought eh? That's the best way I think, so long as we don't take any of them as the final say so. Easier said than done...


Good point. It is important not to put anyone on a pedestal as infallible. Sometimes great insight comes from unlikely sources.

ketzer 05-02-2021 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adept
Has anyone else noticed that Judaism seems to have some correlation to modern occultism..... Any thoughts?


No, but probably only because I have not looked that closely. It seems to me that because of the nature of what religion seeks to understand and explain, namely the unknowable, that occultism is inevitable to pop up in the distribution of beliefs that make it up. Jewish cults, Muslim Cults, Christian Cults, for that matter Political and Personality Cults, ...seems to be a human tendency regarding all ideologies for cults to form within them. It also seems to me that the more into the weeds of ones religion one gets, the more one sees these pockets of different interpretations, sometimes rather bazar, forming. When they get really strange we start saying cultish or occult.

Do you think that Judaism is somehow more prone to it then the others?
If so, why?

RabbiO 05-02-2021 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ketzer

Do you think that Judaism is somehow more prone to it then the others?
If so, why?

Given that the OP is apparently no longer a member of the forum, and given that the OP's last post on this thread was about 6 1/2 years ago, you probably shouldn't hold your breath awaiting a response.

ketzer 05-02-2021 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RabbiO
Given that the OP is apparently no longer a member of the forum, and given that the OP's last post on this thread was about 6 1/2 years ago, you probably shouldn't hold your breath awaiting a response.


I really should learn to check those dates when I come across these threads. I am going to blame it all on GlitterRose since that is how I stumbled across this thread. Anyway, it is an interesting question. I have never thought of Judaism as being particularly occult. Just my impression, but it seems even less so then Christianity, but then there are a lot more of the latter so.

Scholarly Tarot 20-02-2021 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ketzer
I really should learn to check those dates when I come across these threads. I am going to blame it all on GlitterRose since that is how I stumbled across this thread. Anyway, it is an interesting question. I have never thought of Judaism as being particularly occult. Just my impression, but it seems even less so then Christianity, but then there are a lot more of the latter so.


I agree the question is a great one. However, if I may slightly differ with you on emphasis, since, I am at least understanding occult to be what is hidden, not necessarily evil magic (I was taught that is what it was and stupidly went with that for far too long until I studied it out for myself, ayiyi). I actually do think Judaism is an occult religion in some respects, I have in mind the medieval materials of the Sefer Yetzirah, Bahir, and Zohar, not to mention the Kabbalah. Now, I hasten to add, true enough, today those are all being thrown out to the public. I hope it's not a sign of how badly we need them in order to make it as a society. We are in pretty doggone haggard times, to be sure. But the amazing amounts of light and knowledge with all the Judaistic publishing of the hidden literatures in the last 20 years is just breath taking.

I suspect all religions have an occult side, it would be surprising if they didn't. Yet we are at the dawning of the Age of Aquarius, and perhaps all that which is hidden is finally going to come out. I hope for our enlightenment, not due to our being off so bad we NEED it.


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