the ethics and morality of intentional misrepresentation
 

Hello all.
As per thread title.

Wondering how intententional misrepresentation may be considered when looked at in terms of ethics and morality?

May not have posed the question very well--hope sufficient to understand however. Apologies if not--will try to clarify if necessary.

petex

Hi petex,

Can you give an example?

The question is to broad based and open ended as is.

Cheers

Hello Elabr8Aspie.
I agree-- contemplating the question immediately sets me in sthg like an uncharted marshland full of ifs, buts, maybes, etc, -- not much to stand on.
Your suggestion could help.Give it a go, suggest a scenario and we shall see where it leads.
The thread is intended as an invitation to explore.
All the best. pete.

Hi pete,

The ethics and morality of intentional misrepresentation.

Initially,what sprung to mind,were politicians,the elite.

Then the media,capitalism etc,

Then looking at the bigger picture,the creator.

I see it all serves a purpose,starting at first base.

Alas,there is no need to question,there is nothing to consider.

In it's entirety,intentional misrepresentation serves the purpose of this grand design.

Cheers

Hello all.
It seems probable that if we consider an act of intentional misrepresentation as bein unethical, we do so in great part because we make the moral judgement that the act of intentional misrepresentation is form of lying.

However, there is more than just the act of lying to be considered-Imo.

There are the consequences of that act to consider.

Intentional misrepresentation seeks to substitute a false narrative to take the place of "reality".--and in doing so deprives who are taken in and mislead of the ability to make judgements on the basis of the actual reality.

Such deprivation. can--imo--be considered as a form of theft, robbing the mislead of their right to make judgements based on actual reality.

petex

Hi pete,

Intentional misrepresentation on the human plane,by those who are misguided and still asleep.

Accept the things you can change,accept the things you can't change and the wisdom to know the difference.

Occupy the mind with what's unethical and immoral,keeps the mind in the loop.


Intentional misrepresentation by the creator;

Plant a seed into this corrupt system.

Program,brain wash and install false beliefs,fear and trauma etc.

Lures-addictions,habits,material possessions,money,attachments etc.

Health scare/Mid life crisis,

Find the faith or not?

Rinse and repeat.

Evolve.

My pov.

Cheers

It depends. This isn't an absolute thing.

Sometimes is better to be nice than honest, truthful, ...

There are people who, behind a righteous honesty, believe that they can hide their insensitivity or worse.

Kind to be cruel not cruel to be kind?


Some people are insecure hearing the truth and for fully good reason/s.

Much to do about there unresolved unintegrated self.


Insensitivity can't construe in the same breath as honesty.

Repression is being nice.

VERY GOOD QUESTION!


FIRST CASE:

I ind out a company called AJAX has as stock pile of widgets. They thought the widgets would sell, but they didn't.

I look at the widgets and find them unimpressive.

I offer the company $.10 per widget and will take them all. It cost AJAX $10.00 per widget. The company accepts my offer. They claim it is better to make a little bit of money instead of making nothing.

I rename the widgets. The new name is Atlantigets. I do some 'magic' over the Atlantigets. Now the Atlantigets radiate with some of the greatest energy one can find. Nothing in comparison can radiate such healing energy. Next I take legal steps that will prevent others from 'stealing' my new product - Alantijets.

Next, I set the price for an Atlantijets to be $75.00.

Sounds like an odd story, but in our realm, I have seen this happen many times.

Is it misrepresentation? Is it ethical? Is it moral?

Your example seems to be just seizing a business opportunity, and applying intelligent marketing. I don't see it as misrepresentation.

I remember a story of a jewelry maker about her beginnings. She made a bunch of nice earnings she couldn't sell, until somebody explained her that she picked a price range too high for somebody to buy them without thinking, and too low for somebody to buy to gift them to a girlfriend, or for a special occasion. The jewelry maker then quadrupled the price, and not only sold them all, but got a big order from a luxury retailer. Exactly the same models!

I'd call misrepresentation the lying, including by omission, with the purpose of inflicting a prejudice to somebody.

One common lie is comforting somebody with "it will work out", when you know that not to be the case. Is it misrepresentation? I don't think so. Thinking that honesty is more important, regardless of the situation's specifics, is narrow minded, and can be insensitive, mean, cruel, ...

If a person buys some junk and sells it for something it is not, some would say that would be misrepresentation. In the example I gave, the widgets were not a viable product. They got bought, their name changed and all of a sudden, they become worth a lot! There was one other step included. Some magic was done over the widgets.

The reason I mentioned this example, is in our 'field', stuff like this goes on a regular basis. Is the person really doing a scam on his customers or could it have been there was something to that of the magic?

Why be a dropkick and disrespect another.

An example I keep thinking of is when dating. I know a lot of people show only their best parts and become very agreeable. This in order to get someone to be interested in and even develop feelings for them. Personally, I believe this to be very misleading and false but I understand we may be genetically wired to do this in order to mate.

I believe in truth even if it hurts because as somebody else mentioned, decisions can be made based from an honest reality (however honest that can be) and not some falsity.

What are you talking about?

Hello Bornonthe cusp,
As mentioned earlier. A lot of ifs,buts, and maybes.

I have no answer as to how to discern truth from falsehood.I guess in some cases it will be common sense obvious--and often not.
Perhaps there are however clues which may help.

Maybe. If truth is imagined as an open book, then falsehood is possibly going to. be something more hidden, some sort of hidden agenda?

And if truth is imagined as free for the benefit of all, then falsehood is probably going to be the methodology of an agenda intending to benefit only a sub section-- maybe just the smallest sub section.

What sort of benefit, what sort of agenda? Probably-imo- an agenda attempting to achieve relative significance,-power.domination.reputation.fame ?

Are such agendas necessarily consciously pursued? Perhaps not. Perhaps driven by a subconscious need to counter the fear of not being?

When all along the only means --imo--capable of doing that is loving.

So falsehood makes a rod for its own back--until it is relinquished and reconnection sought.
petex

It isn't a scam as long you don't sell something under false pretenses.

If you claimed something you know is false, then that's misrepresentation.

If you sell at a higher price than another did / does, then that isn't misrepresentation. It doesn't matter if you added intrinsic value or not to whatever you sell. Retailers do that all the time.

SECOND CASE

In today's newspaper were circular for the various grocery stores.

As I was eating breakfast at McDonalds' this morning, I showed one ad to a friend of mine and told him it was a 'scam'. He looked at the ad and could not see what I was talking about. Then I broke the ad down piece by piece.

The ad claims you can buy one piece of meat and you get another of equal value for FREE. Actually, the ad should read, buy 2 pieces of meat at half price. The 'scam' falls apart when you go to return the piece of meat you got for free. Reason for the return is you only wanted one piece of meat and being one piece was free, you return the paid for piece of meat. Not gonna happen.

The ad showed the meat already cooked. That means you can get it at the Deli. You go to the Deli and they tell you the price is 4 times what the ad says and it does not include the herbs nor the herb butter which the ad clearly shows.

The kind people at the Deli direct you to the Meat section were the meat is RAW!

well given that the meat was marked up at least two times before the 'reduction in price' (and possibly more) you weren't getting it for even a slight reduction off the real price anyway.

when you understand the kinds of agendas people share in common, a lot of things become more obvious. It is pretty easy to tell who is being shall we say disingenuous once you get to a certain point because once it becomes obvious what people want you know there are standard things people will do to try to get it. Flowery words being one of the standard things that a lot of people who want this or that will use... that is kind of like the ardent admirer wooing the girl, you will say simply anything to win her over even if you don't particularly mean it.

I'm not saying I find this bad or offensive by the way, it is just the way it is. Personally I prefer to know what it is than be confused all the time... although I suppose I would have chosen differently if I'd ever had a real choice in the matter sigh.

Haha,i have no idea.

I got on the bender last night and the eagle took flight.

Sorry.

Anyhow,regards to this thread,if one has to ask a question that pertains to this system,there lies your answer.

Any thought process,focus or concern towards the system and or others or self for that matter,means you still have one foot in the door.

Attachments of the mind.

Attachment to the false matrix.

The bender will always take you where you need to go:wink:

Hi Bornonthecusp,

Yes,back to the shadow.

Cheers

The ultimate question should be: "Is ethics and morality still relevant in today's society?"

With the bourgeoning population and the competition for a sector in the retail market becoming "cut throat" as necessary for survival and to put food in the mouths of one's children, what personal sacrifices need to be made?

You will usually find that ethics, morality and decency is one of the first things to go.

The attitude of business is "as long as I am not breaking the law, the gloves are off".

There is a difference between misrepresentation and false advertising, in that the first is acceptable as part of "modern business practices" and the second could cost a hefty fine and possible jail time.

Consumer education is the key here, and it is up to the individual consumer TO be educated...ignorance is no excuse when it comes to being "ripped off" because that is what those who seek to make a profit rely on.

When you see items for sale with the word "from" before the price tag, avoid it like the plague.

If you see "buy two and get the third free" you will see they charge 30% more for the items than their competitors.

If you see "terms and conditions apply" it is better to get a similar item where they do not.

It is all a psychological manipulation to get you to spend more so you can "save money" by spending money... how exactly does that work again?

To concern oneself with the concerns and or anything to do with this corrupt system,doesn't that perpetuate the system and keep one in the loop in the mind?

What's the point of keeping one foot in the door,when it achieves nothing.

Like throwing good money after bad.

War achieved nothing.

Other than keeping this fear based and ego driven system going.

The economy is sinking,it's the only way to go,to start again without capitalism and greed being the driver.

We'll get where we need to go.

Whatever happens,happens.

i noticed if I sleep too much, my 'dreams' become like a record skipping, playing the same groove over and over at intervals.

Personally I can't turn off the water quickly. It takes me a long time to figure out even that I'm making a mistake, a long time to let go and finally say I agree I'm making a mistake and I want to do something about it, an even longer time to figure out how to actually doing something about it. And then doing that something takes time too.

may not be a 'point' to all this per se but some things get to exist regardless of the level of efficiency they appear to have, I reckon.

That said I think, this place is doing just fine and we'll all get where we are going.

It all started with me trying to understand the Behavioural Psychology behind "panic buying" when faced with even the slimmest chance of facing an "unknown threat".

Because I have Asperger's Disorder myself, everything that neurotypical (normal) people do during the course of their lives, makes absolutely NO sense to me whatsoever and I spend most of my life wondering how it is possible for it to make any sense to THEM...but I guess I would need to be a neurotypical person myself to understand that...which I am not...and so, I exist in a total, constant dilemma.

Often, I will blame God, Satan or just "human stupidity" for making other people different to me and there is NO "connection" there, because I really have NO "human behaviours" in common with the next being that calls itself "human", and so it is also painfully and existentially isolating...thus I look for published, academic "answers" from the realms of human psychology and economics to keep me pacified.

It was during one such foray today, that I came across the concept of LOSS AVERSION, which is something you would need a functioning "Theory of Mind" (which I don't have) to understand it in the same way that a non-Autistic person would...

http://psychology.iresearchnet.com/s...loss-aversion/

It is more important to people NOT to lose something than to gain something of equal or greater value... possibly as the direct result of that saying "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" and this is what drives decision making and spending habits... including saving or hoarding for a "rainy day" during the middle of a drought.

Some people are "planners" who will anticipate every eventuality in their lives for the next ten years and put plans in place now to anticipate every permutable outcome...then spend their lives in constant worry, usually dying of a heart attack or stroke by age 60...forget any virus that could take their lives before that.

Others (like me) take each day as it comes...flying by the seat of my pants and dealing with problems as they arise....it is more exciting and less stressful for me that way, but I am constantly abused and tormented/tortured by the former personality type for my "lack of responsibility", my "failure to plan ahead", and basically not wanting to end up as physically/mentally ill as THEY are.

People misrepresent the truth because the truth hurts...it is painful, decisive, derisive, blunt, separating and categorizing....so people misrepresent the truth to "soften the blow" and then rely on our individual naivite to buy it according to how much of it we are willing to accept without making us totally insane.

Hi FallingLeaves,

Why just exist with unresolved things holding you back,it's endless suffering.

And yes,this place,this system is doing just fine.

I'll enjoy my popcorn by the sidelines.

Cheers

Hi Shivani Devi,

So basically your conflicted and in two minds,regards to 'taking each day as it comes personality versus loss aversion personality.

Do you have any addictions ie:Smoking,alcohol,food etc?

On any medications?

PM,if you don't want to disclose on here.

well have you ever asked the sun not to shine, or the rain to quit falling, or a blizzard not to bother you?

If so how'd it work out for you?

things aren't as simple as being able to just wish to not have things life wants to shove in your face and then get it, I find. Going down that road is as much trouble as anything else except for the fact the others are telling you it is a good thing to stay on the treadmill and fight with what is just naturally presented... the things we will do to ourselves for our 'in' with others are just amazing I find.

Besides there is all the hidden manna which noone wants laying about where I usually end up, and so I'm in on the ground floor when it comes to homesteading. :icon_eek:

I have an addiction to coffee, tea, raw sugar and certain types of food (high protein)...I am also a "binge smoker" meaning I will smoke two packs in one week and then go for 2-3 months without a smoke...I am allergic to ethanol (alcohol) and most pharmaceutical drugs...I am not on any medications..but anyway.

No, I am not conflicted at ALL because I know what I am and what I am not and there is NO way I am open to any changes in that regard...which seems to be totally lost on everybody else who WANTS me to change...because it is everyone else who is conflicted and NOT me..do you see?

Now, things like this exist to teach me a lesson...and it is about freaking TIME that I just surrendered to my "superiority psychosis" instead of fighting it or making excuses for it (in the name of others) because you know why? I am ALWAYS right and it's time I admitted that to myself a lot more than I do....would you like an example I received today? (This will be posted on many other threads as well)...

For quite a while now, I have been experiencing gastrointestinal upsets - IBS, GERD, liver problems, adrenal exhaustion etc and for ages I have been meaning to go back on my Ketogenic, Low FODMAP diet, but I never had the incentive to do so... always saying "I'll go back on my diet later" and "I'll be fine for now"...

Well, I went out today to get pasta, milk and white rice...all the shelves of these had been stripped bare EXCEPT for the wholemeal and gluten free pastas, the brown and wild rices and the skim milk powders..

It was then I noticed that the items people were hoarding and stripping all the shelves of were the highly refined, high carb, high GI products with high sugar, gluten and fat content... Everything "healthy" was left behind...nobody wanted anything that said "organic" or "low carb" of "lite" or "diet"....for many people out there, these are "swear words" ...so all of that remained untouched.

Then I got the message "this food is for YOU and the other food everyone else is scrounging for is for them and NOT you, so let them fight over it and don't worry about it".

I am able to eat things that nobody else would ever touch...use things others would throw away and this, eventually is what is going to ensure my survival...

So while other people are putting rheumatoid arthritis, heart disease, GERD and obesity into their trolleys, stocking up on those things, maybe it will drive the prices of whole foods, raw foods and organic produce down....one can only hope..

Meanwhile, I am getting out my Hunza sprouting kit, my juicer, and making some nut pastes while using Neem oil as my own personal "hand sanitizer".

I know enough about herbal medicine and Ayerveda to not give a damn about all those who are hoarding "white death" products.

This has given me the insentive to assert my individuality, adaptability and my DIS-connection from humanity....only it took me three goddamn months to FINALLY learn my lesson...so that is why I share it here now.

Hi Shivani,

I'd recommend Working on all addictions,if you wish to move forward on the spiritual path.

The coffee,Tea,some foods and some binge smoking,may seem tame or harmless,but rest assured,they have a hold,impede progress and are attachments.

Try quitting,you'll see the tug o war and how the inner voice/ego tries to make excuses,opposed to your common sense self.

Though i think you know that already.

Facts are facts and from my own experiencing,addiction/s conflict the mind.

Thanks for your suggestions...it is appreciated.

Now, if I could only get over my addiction to breathing, we would have a winner....

...but yep, I shall cut down on the caffeine, but try not to limit my smoking right now, because all that does to my subconscious mind is tell it to say "smoke more" until I need to see a hypnotherapist to get me out of that pattern of self sabotage that I am not even consciously aware of doing...which sucks.

Besides all that, I really don't want to "move forward on the spiritual path" anymore for a while...I have had enough of that...way too many unrealistic expectations which end in disappointment.

Yeah anyhow,time for me to disconnect from the net.

This is all a distraction and unconstructive.

Take care and good luck.

Yeah, you are probably addicted to the internet and need to break that addiction, so take care and good luck to you as well.:hug3:

THIRD CASE:

Those who love stones, crystals and minerals are amazed of the diversity available for people.

One such stone some people are seeking out is Shungite. Shungite is a little bit expensive so some dealers have been substituting Anthracite for Shungite. By changing the name, the product is now worth 10-20 times more.

As for the substitution, the average person can not tell the difference and even the 'experts' will tell you they can not also.

this is a scheme that is hard to detect.

Hello all--as we together navigate current circumstances.

When it comes to examining the consequences of acts of intentional misrepresentation, we may well look at the consequences to those who have been mislead,, duped, tricked, etc.-perhaps we look at the consequences to those who we believe have actually carried out such acts in terms of a) doing so helps in establishing what motive such persons may have, which in turn may help in discerning whether or not we are indeed looking at intentional misrepresentation for personal gain, and b) to make some sort of assessment of the disruption caused by such acts and the extent of the damage done.

However, we perhaps rarely consider what consequence such acts may have upon the well being of the mind of those who choose to mislead others in such a manner.

It may be that those who seek to gain personal advantage by means of intentionally misleading others by seeking to trap others in a false narrative may well themselves become trapped within that narrative, able to escape from it only by owning up to its falsehood and seeking forgiveness from those they have mislead.

Rather like being trapped in a "Truman Show" of your own construction.

Those who realise that they have been mislead however are free to leave as soon as that realisation happens.

petex

How long and hence threw suffering,do you want to keep up the charade that you are important.

hello Elabr8aspie.
Is your post above intended as a question?--if so, is it a question you are asking of anyone in particular? cheers.
petex

Hi petex,

Initially,it was pointed in one direction,but is applicable to those who operate on a half light bulb.