Spiritual Forums

Spiritual Forums (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/index.php)
-   Spiritualism (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=63)
-   -   🤓HISTORY OF SPIRITUALISM🤓 (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=140866)

bobjob 04-05-2022 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn
As a side note, Emmanuel Swedenborg is generally known as the "Father of Spiritualism".

Let's examine that "side note" statement and compare it with its apparent source, should we? In 'Swedenborghouseblog' (https://swedenborgsociety.wordpress....el-swedenborg/ ) I found a reference similar to the one you've made and I've quoted it verbatim below. Importantly it's not exactly what you've claimed.....

"Heaven and Hell is a book that has brought great comfort to many over the last 250 years. Some have seen Swedenborg as the ‘father’ of spiritualism, although he himself believed he had been granted special gifts by God which were not to be used for trivial purposes and were not available to everybody. Others have dismissed Swedenborg as an inventor of pretty fairy tales (and this is perhaps why his theology has not, on the whole, been taken seriously by the Christian churches), while some have even considered him to have been insane."

Not as clear cut as your one-liner "side note" I think you'd agree. :wink:

Much more to the point, do Spiritualists see Swedenborg as the father of Spiritualism? I look forward to your further comment. blessings :hug3:

bobjob 04-05-2022 08:18 AM

History of Spiritualism vol 1, 1926
 
As I've said several times I'm not a historian but a bit of research revealed the following.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, famed for his Sherlock Holme character and books, is said to have had ”...a brilliant and deductive mind, one that was razor-sharp with insight. ” Doyle is said to have used those qualities when probing Spiritualism and after a thorough investigation publicly proclaimed himself a Spiritualist time after time. (SNU review of History of Spiritualism vol 1)

Doyle gives over the first 16 pages of the first book of his treatise on the history of Spiritualism to Swedenborg. (I downloaded this book in PDF form) The author speaks effusively about the man before concluding: “He was a very great seer, a great pioneer of psychic knowledge, and his weakness lay in those very words which he has written.”

The impression I gained from Doyle is that Swedenborg’s ideas were often in line with what’s found in Modern Spiritualism but as an actual Spiritualist - rather than having just an academic interest in Spiritualism - I remain unpersuaded he should be considered the father of Spiritualism.

bobjob 04-05-2022 11:13 AM

The History of Spiritualism
 
For anyone interested in the history of Spiritualism the following, authored by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, may be of help.

The History of Spiritualism, vol 1, Project Gutenberg Australia:

https://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0301051h.html

The History of Spiritualism, vol 2, Project Gutenberg Australia:

https://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0301061h.html

The Wandering of a Spiritualist, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Project Gutenberg Australia:

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/3971...-h/39718-h.htm

I'm sure other sources of information are available and the above are especially relevant to Spiritualism as found in the UK but I expect they will have relevance for the versions of Spiritualism evident in North America - where many SF members live - and in Australia.

Still_Waters 04-05-2022 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobjob

subtly different? It's a distinction without a difference in my eyes but I anyway prefer 'further incarnation' because it avoids the huge amount of baggage associated with 'reincarnation'.




This article does a decent job of describing the difference between rebirth and reincarnation.

https://medium.com/@xsm918/comparing...m-2cb498c4041a

EXCERPT:

In conclusion, Buddhism regards rebirth as a flow of life from one to the other, while Hinduism views it as an actual soul changing the bodies it inhabits. ........ It seems that Buddhism and Hinduism beliefs about reincarnation are more different than alike.

NOTE: Even Hindu adepts like Ramana Maharshi have tactfully said that "the reincarnating ego is of the lower planes" and that "reincarnation is what they teach the masses in the temple".

Your choice of "further incarnation" is very well worded.

BigJohn 04-05-2022 04:16 PM

Still_Waters,
you have presented some very nice points on re-birth and reincarnation. I suspect when people talk about reincarnation, I don't think they fully relate to the Eastern beliefs on the subject. For example, the idea that a soul can reincarnate into an animal appears to be repugnant to Westerners. And then there is reincarnation into a mineral, mountain, plant, etc. which appears to be a typical taboo subject in the West.

BigJohn 04-05-2022 04:27 PM

bobjob,
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle does include Emmanuel Swedenborg in the 'lineage' of Spiritualism, that is, the Spiritualism before Modern Day Spiritualism.

As for my comment "As a side note, Emmanuel Swedenborg is generally known as the "Father of Spiritualism"" is an opinion that some have noted about Swedenborg. As I have previously mentioned, Spiritualism seems to have always existed and shows up in various other religions. When it shows up in other religions, it is generally referenced as Animism. Animism is considered by some to be the oldest belief system, probably because it is a 'natural' religion not bogged down with 'rules'.

sky 04-05-2022 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn
bobjob, When it shows up in other religions, it is generally referenced as Animism. Animism is considered by some to be the oldest belief system, probably because it is a 'natural' religion not bogged down with 'rules'.


I personally cannot see any connection in Animism and Spiritualism :confused:

bobjob 04-05-2022 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn
bobjob,
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle does include Emmanuel Swedenborg in the 'lineage' of Spiritualism, that is, the Spiritualism before Modern Day Spiritualism.

Perhaps you might want to read what I posted earlier about the first chapter of Doyle's book 'The History of Spiritualism vol 1' where he 'talks' about Swedenborg - you'll find details in posting # 153 along with a link where the downloadable book can be found.

I've also added a couple of other links there for everyone's convenience. Enjoy!

bobjob 04-05-2022 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn


As for my comment "As a side note, Emmanuel Swedenborg is generally known as the"Father of Spiritualism" is an opinion that some have held about Swedenborg.

quite - It's the opinion of unattributed and unquantified individuals. That hardly equates to Swedenborg being generally known as etc......

bobjob 04-05-2022 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still_Waters
This article does a decent job of describing the difference between rebirth and reincarnation.

In conclusion, Buddhism regards rebirth as a flow of life.....

Your choice of "further incarnation" is very well worded.

Thank you for mentioning that last point.

The remainder, however, deals with other faiths'/religions' take on reincarnation which is not part of the 'History of Spiritualism.'

blessings :hug3:


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:10 AM.

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums