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Viswa 28-07-2021 07:33 PM

STOP
 
Why don't we STOP 'moving' (i.e. STOP desiring,thoughts,attachments,sensual pleasures) and feel the 'PRESENCE' of "THAT"?

alanantic 28-07-2021 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viswa
Why don't we STOP 'moving' (i.e. STOP desiring,thoughts,attachments,sensual pleasures) and feel the 'PRESENCE' of "THAT"?

What's it take to wake up from a dream?

"Tell them I'm awake." -- Buddha

Miss Hepburn 28-07-2021 09:43 PM

Well, many of us do!

alanantic 28-07-2021 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Well, many of us do!



Your story amazes me. How do you DO that? (Go from a few unforgettable moments, to staying in that state for an extended period in time) I have a weird situation. I've been talking to "the sage" in the I Ching for about 45 years. That's a duality I don't quite know how to transcend.

Ewwerrin 28-07-2021 11:04 PM

You can't stop these things, and trying to stop these things just gives one more of these things to try and stop.

But we can ofcourse feel the presence, and in that moment, there would be an expansion of the feeling presence, in our experience of being. But you gotta do it for the feeling of presence, not to stop the other things. Other wise the "other things" will be dominant in the experience.

Whatever you resist, you get more of. Whatever you focus upon, you get more of. You become of like vibration and expand like unto it.

Whenever we say no to something, we get more of that which we say no towards. And when we allow it, aswell.

The only choice we have is to allow, what we choose to allow more of. And realising that allowing is the only thing that really creates/allows our reality.

We realise that, it seems like the things we resist, stay away from us. But in actual reality, it is the misunderstanding of that thing we resist, that causes us to resist it, and that is why we will always continue to receive it, in its true nature of being, when we stop resisting. Releasing the misunderstanding and opening up to the true realisation, that allows anything not part of us to simply vanish and dissapear / be repelled, naturally. Because we also allow ourselves and our own greater allowed realisation of who we are, to expand naturally beyond anything unwanted, by simply allowing our alignment with the allowed realisation of who we are and what we want thus as we expand into more alignment with our source of being.

And the things we desire to experience, are always going to flow towards us. To the degree that we allow our evermore natural and effortless and joyful greater allowed realisation of them. Through our unconditional allowed realisation of placing our enjoying awareness unto it. And aligning the perspective, releasing resistant discordant perspectives of it, and allow the natural expansion of evermore greater allowed realisation.

We will always want something and then realise it more fully, and want something more than it again, and it will always come to us, when we allow our awareness more of it. And we will always feel wether we are allowing more what we want or resisting more what we want, by thoughts/perspectives or frequency of awareness that are not in alignment with the thing we seek to realise as it is already being and becoming expanding in being and becoming by our soul, of which we are an inseperable extension, and we will always feel our relationship to that as emotion.

And we are always expanding, from soul also, and we will always have some gap between us and our soul of which we are an inseperable extension, as it is always expanding for us, unconditionally, being and becoming evermore all things we want to be do or have, vibrationally at the source of our being. And so it's really always going to take some "letting go" of our resistance or suffering or discord, and align with the "presence" by feeling our emotional guidance and allowing the alignment with the newly expanded here and now presence of our soul, to feel better, relief, and good.

And then we enjoy life and come to new realisations and perspectives and we ask for yet more, and our soul takes it becomes it and again there is a gap. We have to allow it to be closed, by not doing the things we've been used to doing, that now widen the gap, as we relax and let go and allow, to close the gap again, between us and our inner being/soul/source, to enjoy the expansion along with our source, from our physical vantage point.

It is an eternal process that will always be the same in essence, but the frequency of our experience of it will always be changing.

Sometimes life causes powerful new desire and powerful expansion of our soul and being, and then closing the gap is a long process of closing a bit further and a bit further and a bit further, with accelerating frequency, that makes it seem like we're going up and down and up and down faster and faster, but we're actually moving up, step by step, as every new step is truely a bit different and a new step. And to realise it, sometimes we have to let go of old, that feels like going down, as a process of reorienting.

But we cannot stop the desire/life force/soul expansion. It is an eternal process of creation. When people say they wanna stop it, what they are saying is, they want to stop the "gap" between them and their soul, that feels like suffering. But that cannot be stopped either. The only way to allow it to close naturally and effortlessly, evermore, is to simply allow it. And relax into it. And accept it. And "feel the presence" as you say. As you feel bad, and the bad feeling is there to help you realise that the gap is needing to be tended to, and allowed to close, as you have become more now, and it is time to become one with the moreness that your soul has become. Time to reorient into a new greater/different perspective.

So what you say is very important. And valuable and eternally true to the core of our being and path of evermore becoming. "Feel the presence" and allow. It will always be an endless journey of allowing the alignment between us and our soul, which causes us to expand our soul again, and then have to do it again. And again and again and again. And to really relax into it and accept it and enjoy this eternal journey that never ends. That suffering is not the end, but the beginning of something new and greater, that we suffer less when we realise there is something greater and better for us to be realised in the moment and reorient towards, our greater allowed realisation of it, by also feeling the presence and our emotional relativity to our ever expanding soul here and now.
Is to accept the cycle, and allow it to be the natural better feeling process by which we are eternally being and becoming evermore here and now. Where we constantly choose to relax and feel a bit better into a new realisation and feel a bit better to a new realisation again and again, as there will always be more and better feeling and newer realisations and greater realisations to be allowed forevermore. always here and now.

That doesn't mean we have to accept the suffering. Rather realise that as we "Feel the presence" we get to learn that true acceptance always feels better. That acceptance and allowing is something deeper than the word. It is about our eternal relative energy motional relationship between us and our source/soul.

So if we allow ourselves to be anyway that feels better emotionally, we are moving towards greater acceptance and allowance. And it will always be different, but at the core essence, energy motionally, in relationship to our source of being and becoming evermore here and now, it will always be a process of "allowing more our alignment with our ever expanding Source, again and again." Catching up to it. By relaxing into it. Going along with the joy of it. And we naturally learn to do that, by "feeling the presence."

And since this is an eternal process, you cannot get it wrong and you wont ever get it done.

And sometimes if the realisation that it is an eternal process causes pain, there will be allot of time spend in neutrality and experience allot of minor and subtle shifts of consciousness, to help one realise how easy and effortless and simple and almost boringly simple and easy and invulnerable the eternal process can be. So that we can then align with the greater allowed realisation of it and expansion of it and experience of it in a more eternally unconditionally joyful way, without any worry or resistance. By realising that the pain is just causing us to expand our soul. And that's the worst that can happen to us. Something that "expands who we are into something more and greater and better to be realised by us." And since we will always be an inseperable extension of that ever expanding greater source being and becoming, we got nothing to worry about. Just relax and allow our alignment with that and evermore natural and effortless greater allowed realisation of all that greater realisation of all things we want to be do or have, ever expandingly and being and becoming evermore here and now, evermore, and more and on and on and on. new and greater and better and different. etc etc etc.

Letting go of the past a bit more again and feel better a bit more again, and allow the new here and now a bit more again and allow our alignment with our soul a bit more here and now again and feel better again. And then we feel good and enjoy, and come to new experiences and realisations and perspectives and we realise new desires and our soul expands again and we close the gap again by allowing more again and finding emotional relief again. Wether it is extreme or subtle, fast or slow or both intertwined. There's always gonna be something more, something else and something new to allow and realise and come into alignment with and allowing the new moreness of new enjoyment of its newness. As we eternally co-create all of it with our source evermore here and now. Under any and all conditions, regardless of any and all conditions, unconditionally, from the source of all being and becoming conditions, that we can always feel our emotional relativitiy to our moreness or greater or lesser allowed alignment with this source of us, who we are an eternally inseperable extension of it, yet we co-expand with it also by our own being and becoming.

Viswa 29-07-2021 09:27 AM

I'm speaking about,

Neither accumulating nor resisting.
Neither allowing nor disallowing.
Neither understanding nor misunderstanding.

We see clearly that "Movement" is nothing but thought/illusion.


So, why not don't care about "what moves, what not moves, what is, what not is" and "STOP" searching/questioning/moving. Whatever you search, is only through "thoughts/knowledge/experience/senses", which is also "illusions", so negate them totally?.

I know neither what 'universe/atom/viswa/Ewwerrin/people/etc..' is, nor interested in "knowing" them, because "knowledge restricts one with time/illusions by comparing/conflict.

The "TRUE" "KNOWLEDGE" is to know that "Nothing can be KNOWN" as every'thing'/'person' changes/moves every second.

So, the remaining essence is just "STOP".

iamthat 29-07-2021 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viswa
Why don't we STOP 'moving' (i.e. STOP desiring,thoughts,attachments,sensual pleasures) and feel the 'PRESENCE' of "THAT"?


It's a question of identification.

If we identify with the mind, the emotions, our desires, the physical body, then all that we know is movement.

If we identify with the PRESENCE of the Self then we rest in stillness. The movement continues within the stillness but the stillness remains untouched.

So the question is, how do we shift our identification? After all, the Self is fully present in each moment so why do people not know it?

Peace

Viswa 29-07-2021 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamthat
It's a question of identification.


Why we have to 'identify'?

Why I have to identify me as "I am 'self'" or "I am 'that'"?

Why not stop 'identifying' too?

There are distractions in this world. Yes. At the 'start' - it is quite necessary to 'surrender' to some 'Identification' to feel the "PRESENCE".

But when one gets deep, even 'sticking' to that "Identification" too distracts and makes one with "Ahankar" or distracts with "siddhi powers", so just have to "STOP" Identifying too. The 'identifying' is also a movement. Whatever moves, whatever emotions/feelings/thoughts/questions arise based on what is sensed, it's an "Illusion".

"THAT" can be felt more only by just "STOP" moving/desiring/questioning/identifying.

We cannot 'identify', "whether we rest in 'stillness' or 'movement' while immersed in 'THAT'". We can only 'reject' what "THAT" is 'not'. It is Neither stillness nor movement. Neither stillness in movement nor movement in stillness.

It cannot be expressed in words. Whatever expressed in words, "THAT" is not.

mihael_11 29-07-2021 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viswa
Why we have to 'identify'?
World will still stay functional, so if you want to perceive something, you have to identify it and if you don't do that, then you don't hove nothing. This sounds, like it is related to depression, but i don't want to be rude but when you identify things correctly you can see that life works.

All can be expressed in words if you have right guidance.

eputkonen 29-07-2021 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viswa
Why don't we STOP 'moving' (i.e. STOP desiring,thoughts,attachments,sensual pleasures) and feel the 'PRESENCE' of "THAT"?


Trying to stop is just another egoic activity. I tend to phrase it as ceasing to do. Movement will then stop on its own. If a wheel is turning because you have been spinning it, just cease spinning it and it will slow and stop.

To try to stop thought directly only agitates the mind and keeps the wheel turning.

It is possible for thoughts, attachments, etc. to cease to arise.

Miss Hepburn 30-07-2021 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanantic
How do you DO that?

Dissatisfaction, desire, discipline and determination.

Miss Hepburn 30-07-2021 02:42 AM

I wonder if this particular group would appreciate Sri Yukteswar's words?

''When a soul is out of the cocoon of the three bodies it escapes forever
from the law of relativity and becomes the ineffable Ever-Existent.
The soul expanded into Spirit remains alone in the region of lightless light,
darkless dark, thoughtless thought, intoxicated with its ecstasy of joy in
God's dream of cosmic creation''
:icon_cool:

alanantic 30-07-2021 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Dissatisfaction, desire, discipline and determination.

I see the problem...I keep trying to use logic! (You'd think that would work!) If our motive in life is to transcend it, you'd think logic would help us build a platform to jump into that Unknown. Wouldn't that be logic's purpose, to bring us to the edge of it? Yet, from what I remember from my few moments of Clarity, logic was never involved! Stillness or quietude was there, though. So, I've been working on being "Still", while I'm going through a whirlwind of change. Ain't been easy!

JustASimpleGuy 30-07-2021 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanantic
I keep trying to use logic! (You'd think that would work!) If our motive in life is to transcend it, you'd think logic would help us build a platform to jump into that Unknown.


From an Advaita perspective here's how I see it. Knowledge alone (Jnana Yoga) might point one to the threshold but quietude (meditation/Raja Yoga), service (action/Karma Yoga) and devotion (Bhakti Yoga) are also required to be carried across the threshold.

alanantic 30-07-2021 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
From an Advaita perspective here's how I see it. Knowledge alone (Jnana Yoga) might point one to the threshold but quietude (meditation/Raja Yoga), service (action/Karma Yoga) and devotion (Bhakti Yoga) are also required to be carried across the threshold.


I have heard that. I consider my Christian sister siblings as practicing Bakti yoga while I was strictly Jnana yoga. (raised a Christian, been there. Done that.) yet... It's seems there are 3 paths; heart/devotion, mind/self-inquiry, body/chi, prana, holy spirit. Since these are aspects of our sense of self, maybe they all need to be integrated and balanced.(?)

JustASimpleGuy 30-07-2021 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanantic
It's seems there are 3 paths; heart/devotion, mind/self-inquiry, body/chi, prana, holy spirit. Since these are aspects of our sense of self, maybe they all need to be integrated and balanced.(?)


There are the four Yogas: Jnana, Raja, Karma and Bhakti. A traditional Advaitan would take the position all four are required, no exceptions. A neo-Advaitan would take the position just a tiny slice of Jnana from the Mandukya Upanishad is all that's required. A neo-Vedantist would take the position it's possible to follow only one path fully (the one suited to the seekers personality) but recommends some amount of all four Yogas.

Of course this is only Advaita and there are other non-dual traditions, some unqualified and some qualified. Also is the Enlightenment of a dualist like from the Yogic tradition any less valid than that from one of the non-dual traditions? Or Enlightenment from a purely Bhakti tradition like Christianity? I'd say they can all lead to true Enlightenment.

By the way my roots are Catholicism but I realized in my teens it just wasn't working for me. It took me roughly 45 years to find a path that suited my particular makeup and predispositions.

Viswa 30-07-2021 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eputkonen
Trying to stop is just another egoic activity. I tend to phrase it as ceasing to do.


What do you mean by "Cease to do" or "cease spinning"? It is also an act of 'ceasing'. Isn't it?

The wheel is spinning - and if you are not 'interested' in the Wheel - there is an 'act' of ceasing, stop continuing the movement. Then yes, The movement which already started comes to an end.

But, one has to 'cease/withdraw' their interest of "moving" - which I meant as "STOP" thoughts/desires.

Sir, we are much 'interested/desire' in pleasures of the World - so 'ceasing' not happens. STOPING the interest, is what I mean as "STOP" moving/desiring. There is no effort in it. If you see the consequences of all the 'acts', or what is the World/body is made up of, you "STOP", if you are in a urge to 'see' the "TRUTH". "TRUTH" is not in Movement/world/body/senses/thoughts, so "STOP" interesting in it, if you are 'serious'.

Viswa 30-07-2021 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mihael_11
All can be expressed in words if you have right guidance.


Nope.

Sir, we can 'think/speak' about 'THAT' as whatever form we 'wish' - in that "thinking", "THAT" represents itself in the form we "think/speak" of. But, "THAT" is not the "form" it represents. We 'wish' - so it took that form. If we not wish/think/speak about "THAT", then "THAT" cannot be expressed in words - only to feel it's "PRESENCE". It is "Unlimited" sir. Only Limitedness has a form. Though Limitedness is born out of Unlimited in the form we desire to, the "limitedness" is not the "Unlimited".

The "Thing/THAT/TRUTH" can/is/will take/taking the form of any 'word/thought/body/universe/mind/etc..'. But, these "words/thoughts/universe" is not the "Thing/THAT/TRUTH".

Whatever is born, whatever dies, whatever changes, whatever is temporary - is 'not' "THAT". "THAT" is neither changing nor not-changing.

alanantic 30-07-2021 05:46 AM

"I wonder if this particular group would appreciate Sri Yukteswar's words?"

I would, being a fan of Yogananda. How much can you quote without getting yelled at?

WeiYing 30-07-2021 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viswa
Why don't we STOP 'moving' (i.e. STOP desiring,thoughts,attachments,sensual pleasures) and feel the 'PRESENCE' of "THAT"?

Ahh, things would be so much more simple, wouldn't they?
This makes me think of the ending of a movie, I believe it was Stigmata? where the person sits atop of a tall building and a voice is heard saying something among the lines of "turn a stone and you'll find me."

Most people are just too selfish to think of anything else, and also trapped into the hamster wheel.
We'd all have to return to living off the land and be self-sustaining and then maybe we'd be able to just stop all that you mentioned.

Viswa 30-07-2021 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeiYing
Ahh.


Yes and No.

Whatever the “things/wheel” may be, it is to don’t care, whether it is simple/complex, as there is no 'interest/desire' in it.

“Living off the land”, yes it is. By roaming around, and whatever the food is, to eat, and even if there is no food, don’t are about hunger.

There is a difference in ‘vanaprasta’ and ‘sanyasi’. In case of vanaprasta, they care only about body, so hunt for that day, residing in forest, to stay away from external influences. But, in case of ‘sanyasi’, the next stage, you don’t hunt, but ‘beg’. If someone offers food, one eats. If not, don’t cares of hunger, and reside in city/village and not in forest

And In sleep, whether we "know/find out" - we are living/dead?, likewise don’t care of hunger too, and rely purely upon “That”, and if it is necessary, “that” will provide full energy to eradicate hunger

What do you mean by "self-sustaining"?

Miss Hepburn 30-07-2021 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanantic
"I wonder if this particular group would appreciate Sri Yukteswar's words?"
I would, being a fan of Yogananda. How much can you quote without getting yelled at?

My dear alan, I, for one, do not yell - I don't even threaten; as in ..."If you make a huge quote again when you know we ask you not to,
I will come in the night and haunt your dreams!"
See? I don't even do that!
Oh, but to answer the copypaste or quote ques - 3 sentences would not get the Forum in trouble with copyright issues...
unless an author says - Do not copy any part of this without permission, see?

(I took out 1 sentence in that quote above to make it 3 sentences...it's work to follow these rules, I know!)

Miss Hepburn 30-07-2021 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanantic
I see the problem...I keep trying to use logic!
If our motive in life is to transcend it, you'd think logic would help us build a platform to jump into that Unknown.
Wouldn't that be logic's purpose, to bring us to the edge of it?...

Logic. Ha! Logic is great when trying to fig out where you may have put your car keys.
But, to use the limited finite to get to the Infinite? Good luck with that!
But you said, 'bring us to the edge' - excellent!

MY logic goes like this: I have a pea-sized brain that
has input
using about 1/4 inch on the EM Spectrum (if the scale was 6 inches).
As I always say: Why, an eagle sees farther, a dog hears more than us!
We are so limited - our puny logic can take us so far.
We are not even aware of a 1000 waves passing thru our roofs right now and thru us from every direction.

That would be one reason Buddhist teachers purposely make NO sense to their students to get then past logic...and into 'the zone'!! :thumbsup:

alanantic 30-07-2021 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Oh, but to answer the copypaste or quote ques - 3 sentences would not get the Forum in trouble with copyright issues...
unless an author says - Do not copy any part of this without permission, see?


Excuse my snark. I frequent a couple other forums and everybody's got different rules. I collect quotes. They often say things better than I do. I've never had to shorten an obvious quote before. There's this one guy, who everyday puts down some saying from a 365 day calendar. No one comments. (I finally did and suggested he switch to "Farside" to get more attention.)

I appreciate you clarifying the rule. I shall make no further mention of it, and do my best to keep things short & sweet :-)

Thanks!

eputkonen 30-07-2021 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viswa
What do you mean by "Cease to do" or "cease spinning"? It is also an act of 'ceasing'. Isn't it?
The wheel is spinning - and if you are not 'interested' in the Wheel - there is an 'act' of ceasing, stop continuing the movement.

What effort is continuing to be done when you ceased doing? Ceasing to do is not a doing. Ceasing to make the efforts of doing brings stillness...a stillness not created by us. Anything we do only disturbs stillness as we add activity. Cease activity.

Miss Hepburn 30-07-2021 02:44 PM

Please remember the Administration has asked please quote only 2-3 sentences.

Viswa 30-07-2021 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eputkonen
What effort is continuing to be done when you ceased doing?


Sir, a woman stands infront of you and seduce you, and you are seduced and start moving towards her (i.e. doing).

Now, how this 'doing' ceases? How the movement towards her ceases? What happens within you at that time, and so you be still?

eputkonen 30-07-2021 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viswa
Sir, a woman stands infront of you and seduce you, and you are seduced and start moving towards her (i.e. doing).


Being seduced is a reaction and a doing...cease that and never start moving towards her.

Viswa 30-07-2021 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eputkonen
Being seduced is a reaction and a doing...cease that and never start moving towards her.


Sir, if you are/me is 'seduced', then nothing can be done. It won't cease as you say. One may try to control it, but it just postponing, and of no use. He also won't remember/an insight to cease, and won't hear other person's words too.

At that moment, if 'seduced' - then it won't cease.

But, before that 'seduced', when women seduces you, "Intelligence" flows and guides you to not fall to her, and negate her as a "FOOL".

This "Intelligence" flows, only when you daily "STOP" moving/desiring/thinking/questioning, and remain in "BLISS". When you do it daily, the flow of energy increases day by day, and only "IT" will make you cease that falling. If you had fallen, then it won't cease, and you have to go through it.

So, daily, after doing all your responsibilities, "STOP" moving/thinking/interesting/desiring for the 'wheel', and remain 'still/being/silence'. Then you can feel what I mean, even if then a women try to seduce you.

Ewwerrin 30-07-2021 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viswa
I'm speaking...
... is just "STOP".

The act of non action you speak of is wei wu wei (act of non-action), it is called "to allow". Or "allowing."

You cannot do the allowing. You can only allow the allowing.
You cannot do the non-doing. You can only allow the non-doing.

Viswa 30-07-2021 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin
The act of non action you speak of is wei wu wei (act of non-action), it is called "to allow". Or "allowing."
You cannot do the allowing. You can only allow the allowing.
You cannot do the non-doing. You can only allow the non-doing.

Sir,
Allowing is nothing but disallowing the illusion, and to be 'serious' to feel the truth. It is 'allowing' and it is an act/do/effort.

Without an effort of 'negating' the illusion (or) effort of 'sacrificing' the illusion (bcz of it's limitedness), you cannot 'allow' "THAT".

I'm practically experiencing it. Please don't quote others. If you are 'serious' and you had 'allowed', then share those experience. I'm not interested in speaking about 'quoting' scriptures/third person's experience.

JustASimpleGuy 30-07-2021 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viswa
Please don't quote others. If you are 'serious' and you had 'allowed', then share those experience. I'm not interested in speaking about 'quoting' scriptures/third person's experience.

Technically speaking isn't that a movement that could be stopped?

Miss Hepburn 30-07-2021 06:10 PM

I love not quoting ---a few are fun, tho.

Viswa ---since your profile does not say ...may I ask your orig country or
your first language?
Well.. and what does Viswa signify to you? Thanks. :)

alanantic 30-07-2021 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by Viswa
"Please don't quote others."

I collect quotes. They say things better than I ever could. To put my own thoughts in place of them, I think is a disservice.

HITESH SHAH 30-07-2021 06:13 PM

Fool
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Viswa
But, before that 'seduced', when women seduces you, "Intelligence" flows and guides you to not fall to her, and negate her as a "FOOL".

Women are excellent , beautiful and intelligent creation of God and treating them as Fool is insult of God . And real folly is in insulting God in which one never succeeds even in dream .While this does not mean to fall for it , there are quite elegant, real and practical approaches to it.

Psychologically negative dictates never work howsover one works . Try to stop is one such negative thing .

So tell what to do rather than what to stop .

Viswa 30-07-2021 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH
Women are excellent , beautiful and intelligent creation of God and treating them as Fool is insult of God . And real folly is in insulting God in which one never succeeds even in dream .


Okay. Let me phrase this way.

Negate her'self'/act as a "FOOL". Everyone (MEN/WOMEN) 'desires' for pleasures are "FOOLS" unto me. Sorry, I'm totally anchored in it, and I feel you cannot change me if you 'desire' to.

And Insulting "GOD"?. It's too funny what you said.

God itself call them as 'sinners'. Does he 'insult' himself by calling this way?.

For me 'sinners' are the "FOOLS", who fails to see the purpose of the human body "He" provided, to "REALIZE/ENLIGHTEN". But, as he is compassionate, he also gave 'objects' for our 'desire' of 'pleasure'.

These persons are all "FOOLS" (even if I desire, I am a FOOL too) no matter whatever their 'sex' is, whatever 'intellect/excellent/beautiful' they are.

Well, I'm not trying to "STOP" movement, I just 'STOP' my 'desire/interest' in it, so it ceases.

HITESH SHAH 30-07-2021 06:29 PM

sinners
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Viswa
God itself call them as 'sinners'. Does he 'insult' himself by calling this way?.


God does not forbid relations between men/women . He call them sinners only when it is illicit , clandestine , undeclared made without the knowledge of world and without giving care / thought to the consequence of it and which is pursued solely for lust. Such relations between husband / wife is pious and in fact every religion celebrates such relations in the form of marriage and gives its sanctity .

Viswa 30-07-2021 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
Technically speaking isn't that a movement that could be stopped?


Can you elaborate or point out which "movement"? To share the 'experience'?

"GOD" did shared them. Guru did shared them. Persons who before 'enlightenment' also shared them, to really show/see with 'like-persons', as there was no "guru".

The 'thing' is, whether the Movement is born out of 'desires' for pleasure or just 'movement' is to be 'thought' of by you. (I'm not interested in thinking it - bcz I feel "IT).

Just "STOP" desires/interest in "illusion" - even it is a 'movement' as you think' of - and you may feel what I mean. And then let's share what you feel of.

If we argue with words, it shall happen for 'years/lifes' and won't end. We shall 'do/share' the experience of our own.

HITESH SHAH 30-07-2021 06:30 PM

fool
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Viswa
(even if I desire, I am a FOOL too) .

Then very few may join u .

HITESH SHAH 30-07-2021 06:35 PM

Stopping
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Viswa
Well, I'm not trying to "STOP" movement, I just 'STOP' my 'desire/interest' in it, so it ceases.

What if that woman happens to be my wife . Is there anything wrong .


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