The problem with Bogs is that you can get sucked down and then your in big trouble :D
Unfortunately you can become trapped in dogma and you can't rely on Religion you pull you out....

Exactly ! What more can one add to that ! :hug3:

we are all unequal. there is no agreed definition of what is a religious dead end or not, there is no one size fits all standard and no-one qualified to enforce it. we're all different.

I agree with you that "there is no one size fits all standard and no one qualified to enforce it. We're all different."

Well said.

Wear a smile :biggrin: ,
One size fits all.....

You are a master of koan-like paradox. :smile:

The path of PERFECT freedom is paradoxically CHOICELESS. So much for "free will". I like koan-like paradoxes as well. :smile:

The only ' free will ' we have is the choice to think we have ' Free will ' :icon_eek:

So what happens with "free will", in your opinion, when one goes beyond thinking ? :smile:

What do you mean by ' beyond thinking ' SW?. Pure Awareness or something different...

I think it's pure awareness, where your mind is completely silent.There are moments when I wake up feeling this way and this inner state stays for a whole day and there are also moments ( it happens almost all the time ) when I reach this state while in deep meditation.This is a state of deep peace where the mind is completely silent, no more thoughts, no more worries, no more chattering.

So what happens with "free will", in your opinion, when one goes beyond thinking ? :smile:



Pure awareness ("knowing without thinking") is probably as good a terminology as possible for "beyond thinking". Yes.

I see knowing without thinking as intuition not 'Pure awareness' so I'm confused.com now :biggrin:
Pure awareness to me is the state prior to thoughts arising, so I would say as ' Free will ' is a thought it wouldn't have appeared so there is nothing that is happening to a no-thing...
Correct me if I am misunderstanding you, I can try again, it keeps the cogs of my mind oiled :smile:

The Mayhayana school of Buddhism refers to it as Sunyata (The Void).

Taken from Wikipedia:

In Mayhayana, Sunyata refers to the tenet that "all things are empty of intrinsic existence and nature (svabhava) but may also refer to the Bhuddha nature teachings and primordial or empty awareness, as in Dzogchin, Shentong or Zen.

My own “oil of choice” is Coconut Oil (Virgin or Cold Pressed). In Hinduism, the Coconut is referred to as Sri Phal (Most Auspicious Fruit) because it has a Satvic (pure) energy. I’m pretty certain that it’s what The Bible refers to as The Manna (Coconut Manna).

No I am not referring to Sunyata MM, maybe SW is and I've misunderstood. All these different labels from different Buddhists Schools that basically mean the same can be confusing so I generally try to explain the way I experience things rather than get to weighed down with the labels.....

I think that we are saying virtually the same thing but the words are getting in the way of communication.

I see your point though. There may indeed be a subtle difference between your definition of "knowing without thinking" ("intuition") and "the state prior to thoughts arising" (pure awareness). I often use the word "pure intuition" to ensure that one's personal stuff is not getting in the way of "pure awareness". I'm not sure if the differences in terminology here are significant.

I am guided by "pure intuition", which I consider to be connecting with the higher power through "purity of heart" and that may very well be the "pure awareness" of which you speak. I do use the terminology "pure awareness" as well as "pure intuition" and "knowing without thinking".

In any case, my sense is that we are in agreement but are just having difficulty with the terminology.

' In any case, my sense is that we are in agreement but are just having difficulty with the terminology. '


We're talking in tongues, :D

Where do you personally think ' Intuition ' comes from....

Speaking in tongues included understanding what the other person was saying.

Exactly....

If you ever get to see & experience what I do, you will soon realize that speaking in tongue is negative influence from those unloving beings that i quite often refer to.

Do you believe that after our liberation from the flesh & are living life in spirit, that we will be sitting around babbling in tongue...No, we will be investing our time in, beautiful coherent loving life in the spiritual lands of abundance.

Or we could unlovingly loiter around the Earth, making energetic attachments to Earthlings & babbling incoherently through them.

Pure Awareness is as you say ... a State. I wouldn’t say that “Empty Conceptualization” defines Pure Awareness. It’s simply one of the many ways for helping a person achieve such a State.

For example, I practice Yoga. Your more into Taoism. Of coarse, the Movements in the Yoga Asanas are going to seem so much different from the Movements of Chi Gong or whatever discipline that you practice. But I’m sure that part of the goal of the Movements for you is Pure Awareness ... apart from the understanding of Empty Conceptualization.

However, because our two disciplines are so different, your way for understanding how to do this, for example, might have something to do with the Taoist Symbols for the Elements. Whereas, I might come to some conclusion that the best way for moving forth into each of the Yoga Asanas is to do so as a Warrior.

Different Yolks for different Folks. lol

I think that there are different levels of "intuition". On the lower level, it may come from the unconscious mind based on past experiences or conditioning. On a deeper level, my sense is that it comes from the "higher power", the Holy Spirit (in Christian terminology since this is a Christian thread), the "image of God undistorted within" (Eastern Orthodox Church --- again using Christian terminology), etc.

Although I use the words "intuition" and "pure intuition" interchangeably in communications, there is a subtle difference and I am starting to use "pure intuition" more when referring to insights emanating from the "higher power".

My understanding is that, when the mind is stilled ("Be still and know that I AM God", "Blessed are the pure of heart for they shall see God"), one soars like an eagle into what Jung calls the collective unconscious, sees the big picture, and returns while "knowing without thinking". Once again, words are obviously inadequate but I think that you get my point. In Christian terminology, that is what I believe when Jesus said "I and the Father are one and the same... but the Father is greater than I" in accordance with the "Thy Will Be Done" Principle. (I am trying to use Christian terminology here but would say this differently in a non-duality forum.)

It's interesting to read that you split intuition into higher and lower levels. I personally think it is a Sixth Sense, it's a feeling rather than a thought....

Sometimes I wonder is it somewhere in our DNA, our Ancestors definitely wouldn't have survived without it , was it just natural instinct but now we call it intuition, I don't know but some people seem to be more intuitive than others...

The dictionary definition of "intuition" is "Intuition is the ability to acquire knowledge without recourse to conscious reasoning."

The knowledge could come from our own unconscious/subconscious or from the "higher power". Hence, I make the distinction.

SW what do you think of this....

I have had a feeling for many years about my Ancestors from the 16th Century, regarding their Employment . I know their DOB and DOD from Church Documents, I know where they Married and where they are Buried, how many Children they had etc: but that is it.

This Morning by mistake I found some Documents on a Maritime Government Site while downloading my Grandfather's Papers from Ellis Island, he sailed on the Lusitania, he is my Maternal side of the Family, the others are Paternal. I was shocked to the core to find my ' feelings ' turn out to be true and I now have pages and pages of Official Documents to prove it, I am actually disgusted and need time to digest the truth....

what is the problem with his being a sailor sky?

Although I am definitely not an expert on such matters, this does not surprise me as many people have had verifiable glimpses into the past.

It's a strange world we live in, or is it.... I haven't made my mind up yet :smile:

No problem at all, most of my Paternal Ancestors were Mariners and some of my Maternal.

but you said you were disgusted I couldn't understand why. I also have mariners in my family, believe it or not one of them was meant to be on the titanic, he was a deck hand or loader of some kind. it sailed off and the next thing the family knew he's back home saying he didn't like something about the way cargo was being stacked up. guess that is intuition. my grandad was a waiter on a cruise liner, another served in ww1 in the navy and another was a master mariner.

He must have been on the ship when it sunk.

Sorry for your loss.

Thanks MM but he actually survived, how I don't know as he worked in the Engine Room, some would call it a Miracle. He was picked up by a Fishing Trawler, a lucky Man :smile:

Yes I am shocked and disgusted, but there's nothing I can do I'm not responsible for their actions.
Gosh intuition definitely at play regarding your Titanic Ancestor, another lucky Man. The good thing about Mariners is you have plenty of documentation around in Archives if your Researching your Family Tree. The problem is sometimes what you find is not what you like...

My spiritual mentor called the world the "imposing reality" until one sees it clearly as it really is.

He sounds pretty lucky to me. :)