I have a goal of cutting a trail down a hundred foot steep almost cliffside.
This should give me a trail down to a river. If all goes well and it is doable I may find a spot to put up a lodge. |
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Sorry ImthatIm for the late reply. Have been having a lot on my plate to deal with of late. * I know I am terribly biased in my mind-set. But then again being over 80% (82-86%) hunter-gatherer still ... genetically – well, what can one expect. …. There were no massacres as far as I am aware of when the Near Eastern agriculturalists came to Europe, it just meant the loss of wildlife habitat, the big game to hunt plus the large predators, so the hunter-gatherers moved further and further up North until we ended up near or in the Arctic Circle. What you were describing there ImthatIm (I trust) was the situation like in Lithuania. Agriculture was adopted, but with the hunter-gatherer worldview values (though I don’t think Lithuanians were ‘shamanic’ … as they lack Siberian ancestry and influence). What Oren Lyons said at the end of his long video about ‘planting ceremony’ and the “Leader of the Fruit” made me smile. The way the white reindeer is a manifestation of the reindeer deity, people growing turnips had a turnip deity. Quote:
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Of course there is always overlap but still, I see those 3 - the hunter-gatherer, the agriculturalists and the steppe-pastoralists as having distinctly different worldviews. Hunter gatherer mind-set is as though still living in the womb of creation i.e. nondual state (and the spirituality that goes with it). Agriculturalist start ‘ordering the landscape’ in dual terms i.e. they had a ‘fall from nonduality’ … have Pegan priests whatnot … Animal herders … at least if one herded camels, one would not lose one's sense of humour … I guess this is why ‘Indo-Europeans’ love the Injun warrior on horse stereotype, the Comanche image and hate Genghis Khan who came a bit too close for comfort. (Well, I don’t understand this kind of - what I see as a double standard). Nor do I understand this selective blindness as Vikings here are not mentioned: https://www.newscientist.com/article...n-ancient-dna/ I remember enjoying Joseph Campbells talks, so I dug one up again, who can describe this herder mentality better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwPh4dHDmx0 Trying to keep links to minimum. Sorry Native Spirit. * |
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Farming and animal husbandry doesn’t go hand in hand with a totemic system. Similar to what Oren Lyons said, if you are/have a bear or a wolf as your totem – you are responsible for that animal’s wellbeing. If they go extinct – you go extinct. https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/s...80&postcount=9 I do understand the Amerind sarcasm about the ‘invaders’ or ‘whites’ … whatever – desire to now get some cool Native American Totems. But, by the same token I really did not appreciate the Amerind ‘educators’ ridicule about our totemic beliefs. Our Totemic Ancestry, because Europeans do/did not have totems – right? Imo. these “educators” about “cultural appropriation” really should go ‘n’ educate themselves first. * Even though 'totemism' is no longer practiced, it is interesting how the sense of it still lingers on, plus it has also been interesting to watch what happens to some people (who have been cut off from their culture) … when they do meet a genuine Spiritual Elder. If they recognize the nondual ‘connection’ – it only takes 5min. to a day for all of it to start ‘coming back’ to them. It is like lighting up some ancient spiritual neural pathways. In general, an Indo-European does not have those innate Aboriginal ‘neural pathway energy patterns’ how could he or she?! His/her ‘neural pathway energy pattern' is to externally imitate and doesn’t really understand the difference: https://bluejayblog.files.wordpress....pg?w=402&h=598 Which of course doesn’t mean those ‘neural pathways’ cannot be learned/developed in time if one integrates into indig. tribe/society etc. But when the ‘enrolled indigenous’ themselves no longer recognize the difference either – this starts to become a worry. * |
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No worries. I hope to have a lot of goodies on my plate come Spring. Quote:
I would not really trust anything I type.I am unsure how to formulate my mind pictures into words well. Writing has always been difficult for me. I just hope that I can get a snippet of the essence and picture across. Many things I write read like a piece of Swiss cheese. LOL I don't have a vast knowledge of the topic on hunter vs. farmer, just an opinion on what I have observed and heard in life.I know nothing of Lithuania. I'll write more later after I view Oren again and view your links. |
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You speak your truth – this is good. You are not here claiming totemic-hunter-gatherer ancestry either, European or Amerind. Nor do I see your avatar as you promoting yourself, but promoting Amerind Spirituality in general which you do honour and respect. All good! * |
sentient
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Ah yeah, ceremony, Strawberry ceremony,corn ceremony. Yeah, here with my wife's people we do berry ceremonies and Salmon ceremony.Root ceremony. Cedar tree ceremony. Bear ceremony, and other Spring ceremonies. Though, we sadly are a shrinking group. Even when gathering, we identify the Eldest plant relative (we see plants as relatives) and ask permission before harvesting and offer gifts, mainly tobacco.We especially ask that the Spirit of that plant help us, along with the physical part for nourishment. We don't just expect our plants to just be on shelves. Life deserves more respect then that. I should add, that my wife spent 3 months living with the clan Mothers in Onondaga and she knows Oren. |
sentient
Joseph Campbell. I love listening to him, and always have. Listening to him, brought to light another thing. The Land/environment dictates the systems of survival and the humans are adaptable. I also see humans also as opportunists, which can be good or bad. Lakota's and others domesticated both dogs and later horses. |
sentient
I can see/witness hunter-gather society being replaced with the casino-check system of survival in 1 or 2 generations. A grandfather may be on the river and in the woods and sons or grandsons could care less.They don't have to, because they know the easier system I call the casino-check system.:icon_frown: |
sentient
or anyone interested. Here is another teacher, one I can understand. The way he talks is what I am use to. Talking of Chanunpa, sundance, Redroad, Vision quest. The Purification (sweat) lodge, which he does not mention but it is a part of all he was talking about. It makes me happy to hear these words from him. 18:11 mins. long https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylxuYeQRSh8 |
I remember this and it made a big impression on me at the time about respecting Native Americans as defenders of Indigenous peoples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLNMEbzm4WM Of course my naiveté there was in for a rude awakening later on, BUT the more I listen to him, the more I really respect him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GpIkrqOlHA I can’t picture him allowing himself to be seen/regarded as a pope-like-figure among the injuns and then cashing in on the “white guilt” & receiving personal donations from people … from nations who formerly have been the oppressors of their own indigenous peoples …. as if these donations to injun-like-pope-figurehead would somehow absolve, grant release these former oppressors of their ‘sins’. Just saying. To my mind he speaks ‘indigeousness’ with genuine integrity that resonates. * |
From my favourite ‘Strayan’ cartoonist Leunig:
https://neighbourhoodpaper.com/wp-co...ed-768x529.jpg 'Our' old - still good as new view: * |
Day before yesterday - saw a beautiful tribal tattoo on a beautiful young PNG woman.
I so love the look of Polynesian/Melanesian tattoos and feel proud for them for continuing with the tradition. Made me think though – if I had a tattoo – what would it be? a Swastika. Our swastikas never were an Aryan-Nazi-white-supremacy symbol, but this: https://hridayaravinde.files.wordpre...jpg.png?w=1140 The Sky Nail Pole Star and the rotational movement around this Axis Mundi – the World Pole. * .aaaand a Southern Cross tattoo: * |
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https://www.culturalsurvival.org/pub...of% 20America. ^ Besides, the writer of that article is said to have falsely claimed Native American ancestry (cultural appropriation), which led to his being fired from the university. Sheeesh! How blooming frustrating! When “Indigenousness” itself becomes a commodity – something one can exploit and cash in on, one can expect turf wars … :confused2: |
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Your picture makes good sense until I see the thumb tack and modern looking pole. |
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Yes, I do know more than I care to on this stuff. These battles have all kinds of extremes and gray areas. It put's a stop to the true Spiritual principles IMO. Oh well. Everyone camps up and sharpens their opinions and does what they think is best. This is one reason I backed off traveling to help out as much.I stick around home do what I can and maintain my guest role. There is fighting and bickering all over. Nothing new. Some justified some not, but who am I to judge. Though I do examine the attitudes stirring the fight. I could have stayed in the bars if I wanted to fight around. You would not imagine or maybe you would IDK, the amount of times that we were dragged into fights and arguments over pride and rights and mere ego wars. I've tried to stay away from these subjects because they are not pleasant but they are a reality. I will always pray and maintain my right to pray and help whom I see fit. I've already made my commitments and I belong in a certain camp on these issues. Most people are really not to serious on their position when it comes down to it. They just like spitting words out so people will react. They rarely want to throw down over their position. 'Throwing down' is a spiritual term in my book.LOL I do or did know or know about people in your article. You've touched close to home( very close). LOL The writer of the article does not ring a bell, I can't say if he actually talked to any of the people he quotes. I know that Shamanism too, is for sale everywhere on the inter-webs. $1,999.00 for a weeks course and you too can become a Shaman. This stuff is really sickening. These things are lifetime commitments. Not everyone can just become a Shaman I would imagine. There is this big fad where everything is for sale. Nobody benefits from the for sale system.It is kinda like prostitution. Not True Love. I've said my piece, and it was not so painful.Just stung a bit.:cool: |
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It would be nice to get a swastika if it wasn't so negatively charged nowadays. |
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The “thumb tack” is supposed to illustrate the “Sky Nail” that keeps the Pole Star stationary. Quote:
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The Bear from its Heavenly home wanted to come down to Earth to taste those juicy berries, so a basket was lowered down for the Bear to do so. Long story (part of the Bear Ceremony). The Bear Cult is Eurasian – yet everybody has a different version of it. So - noooo, we don’t change our stories. They are as they always were. It is the Western man that always changes their stories. First they are pagan priests and witches, whatever … Then they are Catholics doing the witch hunts and accusing the indigenous of the dark art … Then these big time slave traders become Lutheran race hygienists Quote:
Wonders never cease. What’s next. But this – who is more indigenous in the “indigenousness hierarchy” – must go. Quote:
Yeah, but who is doing this selling? Where do these sellers live/come from? That is my culture … my ancestry. Yet I do not know one person (from my 2 ethnic groups) selling Shamanism ....selling "how-to-become-a-shaman" workshops. That would be utterly ridiculous. Though there are academic books one can read if one is interested in the subject: Shamanism and Northern Ecology: https://www.google.com.au/books/edit... c=frontcover Shamanism and Culture: https://books.google.com.au/books/ab...&redir_e sc=y * |
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P.S. One may repeat the injun saying "Mitakuye Oyasin" - which I trust means the interconnectedness of everything. But indigenous symbols are like that also. It is "white thinking" to think that one can just take an ancient symbol out-of-context, like it existed in isolation and then compartmentalise it to mean whatever-one-wants. And if the meaning one gave to it (living up to the concept of it) did not work ... then one can just take the symbol out again, ban it now as evil. Whilst all that time (*elevator music*) the Dig Dipper has been rotating around the 'stationary' Pole Star. The symbol being there there in da sky. * |
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"Indian Country" on Swastikas: https://indiancountrytoday.com/archi...2ESRw_IpQBexTw ^ (Here once again it is forgotten or not known that Europe had/has its hunter-gatherers to whom this cross (also called) “FireCross” is about the stationary Pole Star and its relation to the rotating Big Dipper through the seasons). * |
I'm all for you getting a swastika tattoo.I support you 100%.:icon_razz:
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sentient
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I forgot there was forged metal on that continent for quite some time. Do you know where your people went during the ice-age? |
A brief message from Terence McKenna 1:44mins.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC7aud4b3dQ Seemed like a reasonable message in this world of today. |
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But moving on … have since discovered interesting and beautiful Navajo weaving patterns and I really love this design: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmK74W55kPE Now, if Navajos wanted to revive and use that old symbol of theirs, I can’t see why they shouldn’t since it has absolutely nothing to do with Hitler’s: “Stand-in-for-your-superiority-as-the-White-Aryan-Master-Race” … The high aspirations of it and the bitter falls … (Here one needs the fall-off-your-high-camel video to illustrate): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AN3NGf-iXY Navajos apparently didn’t even have Chiefs! * Gimbutas: “Swastika was a symbol of the perpetual motion of life and the universe” (So perhaps that was the original Euro hunter-gatherer definition for it?). But because ours is an Arctic-Siberian influenced Euro view it is the Polaris – Big Dipper – World Pole – Axis Mundi (and how every aspect and symbol ties into that) Worldview … where stillness and movement come together, time and timelessness etc. etc. etc. which is a real shamanic spiritual awakening experience into nonduality. (The experience one has just before Thunderbird swallows one up, which is the shamanic-death-experience). And so on. * |
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Yeah. Yakut, Mongol, Uralic etc. shamen used heaps of metal in their regalia: And then there was this development: * |
sentient
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Again my worldview below. I love this picture below. I sit or stand at Axis Mundi.Or I could say I stand at the center of the Universe.I can see the swastika in it.etc. etc. Though I would turn 180 degrees since we almost always begin facing West, where the Thunderbird lives and comes from. So I guess this is how I understand Non-duality. Yet it looks like I am alone, I assure you this represent ALL to me. Even camels. LOL. So i can see how the swastika represent everything. https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...HwHLQ&usqp=CAU I probably should add that the top word in the pic. is: Wakan Tanka = Great Mystery Spirit that is in ALL.(There is ONE) Tunkashila = Grandfather Spirits of the up direction or sky and they wear a huge Blue Robe.(We say there are 101 of these High Helpers) 101 High Helpers of Wakan Tanka in each direction W,N,E,S,. Then Unci Maka- Grandmother the Earth below also 101 High Helper Spirits. 606 total High Helpers Spirits. |
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And your Pipe practices. “Sound as Bell” practices imo. Very important to keep alive. * These I trust, are old Baltic hunter-gatherer symbols. We love them – we keep them, no matter what that clown Hitler high-on-his-camel-of-self-importance did to the symbol. Nothing to do with us. These are represented in our weavings, clothings etc. https://shaktashop.fi/wp-content/upl...128_170601.jpg * |
Is that a drum or is that a drum!
If these drums do not summon spirits, it will be a blooming miracle: https://www.researchgate.net/profile...-Findeisen.ppm The most important part of the drum - as far as the Shaman is concerned is on the inside: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cd/6b...10d11d2d0e.jpg This. Was carved into a stone by our Siberian Ancestors to always remember our Reality Orientation: * |
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I love designs and symbols.this is suposedly how my Chinese clan is written.松 It's got the 4 directions on a pole.LOL. I was kinda let down when I traced me Irish clan it was probably Germanic.But that's just that negative charge or connotation again from Adolf. * * * * * * * * Who knows what is real though, history can be a my-story/mystery.LOL * * When those DNA peoples track and find the lost 10 tribes of Israel I will consider slapping down some frog skins. ($). * * I think I went off track with this post. Must have been the camels. LOL. |
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They did not go anywhere. As far as my two grandmothers Mt DNA-lines are concerned, they weathered the Ice Age in Solutrean and Proto-Solutrean refugia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_G...aximum_refugia As the Ice receded – they allegedly moved into and lived in Doggerland. Later on, they moved – via Baltics to North. My “white” – bloody Viking grandfather – the I1 (I-M253), was also a ‘Native Euro son.’ But I suppose they fell into the wrong crowd and became Vikings in Gotland. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Bronze_Age.png My other grandfather – the North Eurasian N … I don’t know – they were the Mammoth hunters of the Mammoth Steppe, where there was no ice. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplog..._N_(ADN-Y).PNG * |
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Well – don’t be disheartened. REALLY. ALL Europeans have the hunter-gatherer genes as well as the Near Eastern agriculturalist genes and the Indo-European invader genes …it just depends on what proportion. And besides - Which wolf do you feed? I am the grey area here. I am more of the Eastern Hunter-Gatherer and also because we have Siberian - which is not European, they left us out of the map. Hope the map shows: https://cache.eupedia.com/images/con..._admixture.png * |
sentient
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Alright... I won't, it has been sometime(2003 or so) since I read that the surname (Renick) probably derived and came from the Rhine river region. I picked up from my Grandmothers research that she done in the late 70s. I figured I would see what the inter-webs could reveal.(Not much without forking over frog skins) ($). I place all this tracing bloodline on the same lines as previous lives. When it is time and important enough the Higher Powers will put it in front of me and align it and it will be unavoidable. It seems the Powers that be, want me dealing with issues that over-feed the Dark wolf.(Blackroad) Learning to keep walking in the NOW energies of Life.(Redroad and health) Learning to Live in Peace. My wifes new found uncle (He was adopted out from fam.) had a DNA test recently. None of his Native DNA came up. It was obvious that He was her uncle the first time we seen him. No doubt. Now he has no legal standing with the tribe and it has messed with His abandonment issues. Sad deal. Which has lead me to further mistrust DNA companies accuracy. |
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That regalia is quite incredible, and that is a whole lot of metal. Lots of bells too I see. Which has me bringing up this statement of yours. I have not heard anything like it. Quote:
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One could say the same thing about the mythological World Pole. It is here. It is very real. It is functional. And again, sometimes the most real things are those you cannot see. * In this day and age of fake medicine men, plastic shamen, new age fantasy worlds, whatnot, people can say things that just do not sound right, the words do not have the ‘right echo’ or the ‘right ring’ to them. And when a fake shaman say, attaches new meanings and/or extra practices that contradict the original core practice, then they have not understood shamanism in the first place and that new age practice will not be “as sound as a bell” - there will be an odd, distorted 'ring' to it. P.S. Some Ice Age and after maps: https://bladehoner.wordpress.com/201...an-migrations/ DNA The important thing about the DNA test is to get the Raw Data. The Dna companies will only give one a general ‘reading’, but with that raw data one can start investigating … * |
Let me first just give you a big thank you.
Your like a teacher. You have provided a whole bunch of information that interests me. My big stumbling block is as always trust. I don't know what to trust so I throw up my hands and walk away. Thanks for taking the time to answer some questions. I did not know if "Sound as bell" was a saying or a ceremonial practice. Thanks for explaining. That is a bunch of migration information. Wow, I had not really studied any migration history from that far back. |
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At first, I belonged to various DNA-analysis groups and then I also uploaded my (downloaded) raw dna to this site: https://blog.genomelink.io/posts/how-to-use-gedmatch With so many calculators there you will soon discover what % of which migration you are. They also detect one’s Amerind % more accurately. Plus, I had mentioned, that with 4 populations African, Asian, European and Amerind I get 12.50% Amerind. (Which % - when Siberian populations are added comes down, because ‘my false Amerind' is hidden in my Siberian ancestry). Sometimes when Americans get “Volga-Ural” (was it?) or Finland&North Eurasia their “Amerind” might be hidden there, because for a long time DNA analysis could not tell the difference between our false-positive Amerind-dna and real Amerind-dna from Americas. Why Is My Native American Ancestry Not Showing Up?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geE7zsehccY And other problems: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyXF_LffAM0 * |
sentient
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So I have kind of ignored responding to (shamanic-death-experience) This resonates with me, but I correlate it to a vision quest. It maybe incorrect to compare the 2 but none the less they may be similar. A vision quest is where a medicine person or Holy person most commonly gets their Power or becomes a medicine person. (ussually 4 days no food or water and isolated in nature) A regular person (non medicine man)also starts understanding their gifts or recieves a vision to live by on vision quest. All should "go up on the hill/mountain" which is another phrase for vision quest. I was taught that you either receive your vision or wander about aimlessly. Though I don't want to violate the rules on dangerous practices here (SF) but I don't want to keep ignoring the topic either. I see it as most important. Even though I know nothing of the shamanic death experience. I wanted to give my opinion and see if they are similar at least in importance. We call the vision quest "the little death" or "crying for a vision" This is where you start to get to know or understand your spirit helpers. Be it animal, ancestor, plant or whatever Life may have in store for an individual. Maybe receive instruction from Spirit. Of course these visions/instructions can come in different ways but I understand this to be the most common way or rite. Speaking rites, the vision quest is another rite given by White Buffalo Calf Maiden. Also I was taught that all peoples at one time had a form of the vision quest. Alright, I at least acknowledged the shamanic-death-experience and the vision quest. |
ImthatIm:
I really needed to hear this “Doctrine of Discovery”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYZ2rj2Jooc (A more than 1hr long video): As one comment says: Quote:
Similar things happened to our peoples also, which I wrote here about: https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/s...&postcount=180 * |
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* On the top of the World Pole sits the Eagle. It represents Totality. The ALL-seeing-eye, perhaps one could say. Thunderbird is the Power aspect of that Eagle. To us Jesus was like a shaman, who died to the ‘separate-self-identity’ and its interests in order to benefit ALL creation. All shamen were initiated by Thunderbird Eagle. The gift of manifesting the 'spiritual dimension' came with that 'death'. * |
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Preaching to the choir. i have seen vids. of Mark Charles speak too. Then throw democracy on top of doctrine of discovery. As told by Oren Lyons. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs0EK1z9xhc I got the Roman stomping on my Irish side too. The English learned from the Romans how to oppress, I believe. |
In the light of the Doctrine of Discovery, I am reviewing my old notes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3gF7ULVrl4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3oc84aLC-Q Quote:
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