Body, Emotions, Mind … and Beyond
 

Considerations One . . .

For those of you who wish to catch a glimpse of what this schoolroom is all about and what is beyond mind . . . I am going to simply offer some information that all can do with as each wishes. I am not here to bicker … I am not here to argue … I am not here to prove. Much of this is rather common knowledge if one has searched broadly enough. There will certainly be some offerings that are beyond the mental worlds. Again . . . do with this as you wish.

The intellectuals / mentalists on this site will set out to dispute. That’s fine. Enjoy.

Working ones way beyond the mental worlds and recognizing as such is *not* a matter of feeling . . . or silence . . . or unity . . . or stopping the mind . . . etc. There are most assuredly decided landmarks or definite experiences that will reveal “where you are” when beyond the psychic worlds. Once one has had a few experiences of this . . . it is easier to recognize. Until then . . . it is all conjecture.

I am guessing that there are a goodly number of people on this board who have caught a glimpse of the worlds beyond mind. ( Please accept my use of rather generic words so that semantics doesn’t become part of possible misinterpretation. “Worlds” can be thought of as dimensions or places or levels or what have you. ) The entire experience is based on frequency … or vibration. An individual maintaining a position in any psychic dimension can make any claim s/he wishes but unless or until there is an actual higher frequency to allow or assimilate with a higher world or dimension … there is no actual change in dimensional position … no matter what they claim.

To recognize where another individual “is” at the moment is a learned art … gleaned only from personal experience. One can recognize *only* if they too have had similar experiences … or beyond. This gives rise to the old adage of … “It takes one to know one.”

A state of consciousness is as an established a position as any geographical location on the planet. Your sate of consciousness literally “places” you in or at a particular position … and it *can* be recognized. People who claim “You don’t know me” have no idea that states of consciousness are often clearly revealed by the concepts they hold, the words they use, and the patterns they lie from. Yes … there are often specifics that are as easy to discern … but if a person lives in Paris, France . . . one doesn’t need to know the street address to get a good understanding of their daily life.

Very few actually change their state of consciousness during any individual lifetime. This has very little to do with data and information gathered during a sojourn within these planes. Most people spend their lifetime discovering new ways to express old beliefs and patterns. Such is the nature of the game. A change in ones state of consciousness suggests an actual revision or replacement in ones core beliefs. It certainly can be minor or major.

Soul Itself is clearly out of Its element here. This is the design of the psychic worlds of mind, body, and emotions. Soul Itself is neither of these in actuality. Soul of Itself could not exist within these psychic worlds … just the same as the human physical body cannot exist on the moon or any other planet without protection for the body itself … or could not exist in the depths of the ocean without protective gear. For Soul … the “protective gear” to survive here are the physical, emotional, and mental bodies. These same bodies come in exceptionally “handy” when traveling the other worlds / dimensions during the dream state. Soul Itself has no need to “sleep” or to “rest” but the physical body does … and so Soul is designed to lay the physical body down at regular intervals while It journeys elsewhere.

Soul does *not* know this as It begins Its entire journey here. A goodly portion of the Path is the discovery of this. Again … Soul would be the “driver” … the “controller” … the entire “life” behind each of these bodies but Soul doesn’t know that and spends and incredible number of lifetimes working this out. The mind and emotions re not just a part of the human physical existence. They are much more than that.

Each and all of the psychic bodies of mind, emotion, and physical body … defines addiction. Soul is instantly so reliant upon these bodies ( for mere survival here and on the other planes ) that Soul will retreat back to these bodies or levels of existence time and time and time again … seemingly endlessly. Soul will unknowingly seek the safety of the familiar. Again … by design.

As with any addiction maintained for any length of time . . . it is all but impossible for Soul to recognize the limitations of any of Its patterns, habits, or beliefs unless or until there is enough movement to get above the actual problem and gain an overview. You can stack up all the “evidence” of the dangers and limitations of being an alcoholic … but unless or until the viable alcoholic truly stops long enough to see his / her own ruination and musters enough effort to walk away from the addiction . . . it will do no good to present said evidence to one who will not allow for recognition.

Such is the basic nature of each of the psychic bodies. While here in the physical … Soul will hang onto the physical body if for no other reason than mere survival of existence. The emotions are incredibly addictive … indeed Soul could not gain experience here without them … and there can be quite a discussion on which comes first … the emotion … or the thought. One can have few thoughts without at least some level of emotional involvement in it … and vice versa.

And mind … being THE most valuable and important tool given to Soul on Its journeys through the lower worlds … and the psychic body that is closest to Soul Itself … mind quickly turns into the commander, designer, judge and jury for each individual. Soul has given control to mind for eons. It is part of the design of the lower world schoolroom … for lack of better description. Mind does NOT give up this control easily … and will fight to its own psychic death for its own survival. It certainly can be said that the more powerful the tool ( or weapon ) the more detrimental it is if used wrongly.

All of this goes on and on and on until Soul Itself becomes so exhausted from trying to regulate, destroy, or dismiss as many of these lower facets of Self as one can … Soul finally begins to draw certain distinctions, awareness, and understanding … Soul begins to move beyond the psychic worlds while still using them to continue to interact with life experiences while here.

In any event … on we go.

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Considerations Two …

Certainly one of the most unknown and aggravating discoveries about Truth beyond the mental worlds is that Truth simply … IS. At the level beyond mind … Truth is what it IS … and there is nothing we can “do” about it. The psychic worlds “below” are designed to lead each in the discovery in what we each are as Soul … what Truth is … how all levels of Existence is designed … and our responsibilities to it.

Mind … being part of the structure of the psychic worlds and is designed to compare, analyze, define, label, etc … wrestles with its mental understanding and perspective on what life is here in the lower psychic worlds and ultimately with what is beyond mind itself. There are ways that this can be done … tho not widely taught.

Mind loves to incorporate the term “IS” into its own beliefs to resolve truly understanding something that is beyond its capacity to do so. The discovery of this understanding and its validity is also monumental in ones life. Ultimately … this understanding is *not* due to some imaginative assumption. The ploy of declaring that such-and-such is due to someone’s imagination is again … a well-used technique on dismissing something that may well be true but cannot be verified by another because s/he has not had similar experiences and realizations. There’s little that mind can do other than to find a way to dismiss certain understandings.

The structure / design / make-up / construction of the worlds beyond mind is entirely different than below … again … many of these terms are incredibly generic in use. Since rate vibration … again a generic term … is of such distinction in the entirety of Existence … it would be closer to being truthful if it was stated as faster or slower … or higher and lower. Up and down … higher and lower … above and below have been used for so long they will be used interactively.

The nature of what is beyond mind is *not* energy as we know it here. It is extremely different … and in the understanding of it … is more powerful and life-giving … since these upper worlds are the basis and foundation that makes up the lower worlds of psychic form.

Unless and until one steps into these worlds … there is little the can be said about them … and certainly even less that will be understood by those that have not had the experience. I know this is a rather common dance-step used by many … but in this case … it is nonetheless true. There are words that can offer some hint … some subtle understanding … and I will use them from time to time … but for the most part this all has to be discovered on an individual basis.

Once experienced for any length to time and to any real degree … ( again generic terms ) … it makes total sense … even to the mind at the mental level.

This authentic understanding is a LONG time in coming.

More to come.

Nice to see you again Zork. I am glad you are engaging here.

Brilliant ! I sincerely look forward to the continued journey.

Hello Members

You will see I have removed the back talk in this thread. It stops now. We agree to disagree and move on. I do not find the thread "Blog" in nature but maybe it could have been broken into smaller bits is all for easier discussions.

We all have the right to our views on things and respectful discussions are the result that is the outcome.

So back on topic and if you don't "like" the topic ignore it.

Lynn
SF Admin

Thank you Lynn ! !

We are here to, in part, learn from each other and to converse in various ways. Loving kindness is a good way to express.

Also there are valuable people here in this forum who have attained something beyond the normal heights of human endeavors - there is no need to try to shut them down through blatant dis-respectful argumentation.

Again Thank you Lynn.

Replies & Clarifications Two …

Thanks to all who have so far read this post series. Hopefully there has been just a touch of benefit or just a slight upliftment in awareness in their reading.

The question has been asked … why am I doing this?

I posted here back in the very early 2000’s … under another user name … was declared as one of the better posters by one of the main moderators at that time … but I eventually left the board as all of my posts were sidetracked and hijacked by the mentalists / intellectuals who vowed to the death that their viewpoints were “right.”

Coming back into this forum board now … it is the same. The common beliefs … the dogma … the faddish interests … they all believe that they are the absolute truth and any opposition to them is all but Satanic. Not only are the beliefs, interests, dogma and such a natural and necessary part of the Path but in their own place they are true to the level they pertain. We all go through them. There are no exceptions.

But the constant weaponry of using a single point … or word … or concept … or principle … to dismiss the entire post … constantly destroyed the ability to build one post upon the other and portray in a rather sequential fashion what can be understood and benefit those who wish to lean about a “touch on or beyond the mind.” The bickering often resorted to name-calling, totally false accusations, and the stacking of web evidence to prove their points.

Much of this is simply to tie up the discussion so that Truth could not be developed. This has been … and will be … around forever.

Again I will state … all of these bantering are true and certainly are important and pertain to those that live them … according to where they “are” on the Path … and the nature of their opposition offers a partial perspective in just where they “are” at the moment.

So I am going to attempt to simply put in a series of informational posts … and let people decide for themselves. As I told the recent antagonist to this very post … isn’t that the goal of the Path … to let people decide for themselves … without the accusations of “I’m right / you’re wrong” getting in the way?

I found it truly fascinating that the first comment after my initial post was to point out how and what I was doing wrong. Yes … mind is that complete … and compelling.

There *is* a reason why mind take this approach. If there is enough interest in these posts … I will attempt to clarify those reasons to some extent.

So I am doing all of this just to get some information “out there” … and LIFE will lead those who perhaps might benefit … here. I do *not* mind … questions. I do *not* mind … ponderings on your part. I do *not* mind … comments. I am *not* here to dictate.

Maybe I have … or maybe I have not … taken a few steps beyond the mental worlds. Maybe I do or maybe I do not know what I am talking about and have taken the time to literally discover and prove the Truth of what I offer here. Some will see the value of what I write … most others will not. The choice … as always … is an individual one.

I understand that much of what I will offer here is not “new.” The natural and designed approach of the mind is to part things out … to take issue with specific points … to isolate and argue … and so to sidetrack from a building overview. It is the gathering of the parts into the Whole that may be different for many here. The parts / aspects DO work together … into a recognizable Whole.

I am keeping a list of comments and questions … and hopefully will address them at least to a workable extent. Janielee … the “how” will be somewhat discussed. Others … feel free to discuss amongst yourselves … but be assured … I will attempt to carry the series on … and the topics and queries of your discussions hopefully will fall into place along the way.

Please remember … that the vast, boundless uncovering and discovery of what is “beyond the mind” … and even to the true understanding of mind itself … has always been taught one-on-one … and mostly on the inner. There is a reason for this … and I will adhere to that. The deeper and more profound steps on the Path are always earned by those who are willing to take the effort to put one foot in front of the other to the extent beyond what the masses wish to do.

It is that simple.

And thanks to the moderators who perceive that I am simply trying to help here … those who wish a touch of perhaps advanced information … and mean no threat to the mental stances so widely followed and adhered to.

Zork

May Goodness prevail here on this thread and many other threads on this forum.

You make very good points above and so I am glad you will continue.

Willing and listening

JL

Considerations Three …

Reincarnation and the Path 1A …

I doubt if it’s much mystery at all that the Path in its entirety is a sequential one … a progressive one … building from one lifetime to the next. My attempt here will be to give it a bit more of a broad overview.

Soul Itself is created as an individualized awareness in the pure upper worlds of God. ( Again … generic terms will be used here ) It is *not* separated in any way from the Whole of Life. There is little way that much of anything can be in existence outside of Life Itself or Existence Itself … other than the core God ITSELF that created it all in the first place … or … gave rise to the creation of it all.

Almost immediately upon creation … Soul Itself is cast down into the lower psychic worlds to begin gaining personal experience. At what level does each Soul come into these worlds … I am not here to say and I do not call the shots. But lets progress it a bit and take it up to the single-cell amoebas … and on up to the great apes and beyond.

None of these would have “life” if it were not given that sense of life experience and movement if it were not for Soul … at that level. Obviously very basic … very fundamental. From the single cells on up to the insects, the snakes, the birds, the spiders, the higher animals, the mammals … on it goes. Draw up any sequence you wish. Each would not be mobile and in a growing actuality if it were not for an individual Soul giving life to that form of existence at the moment.

Many lifetimes are very short. Some … can be rather lengthy.

Does Soul have to go through each one of the birds … each one of the mammals … each one of the insects … etc? Not necessarily … but remember … Soul has eternity to work with. It is involved in Its progressive set of lifetimes … somewhere. Again … I do not make the call on how and which incarnation each Soul needs for experience.

During this time … Soul is living and building off of basic instinct. There is a lot to be said about “instinct” during these lifetimes.

I would bet that most if not all of us have experienced an animal … a favorite pet or an incredibly friendly and responsive animal … that you could sense that it is “almost human” … by its nature … by its understanding … by the look in it eyes. During the next lifetime or two or three or ? … that step will be taken.

Souls first incarnation in human form begins the next level of education. At this time … Soul again is working via instinct brought along from previous lives. What happens now obviously depends upon what family / circumstance it is born into. Its instinct is now to simply survive. It will need shelter, perhaps clothes, food, fluids, and perhaps other protections … and a willingness to live. From then on … no matter how short or long this first lifetime … we begin to build … one upon the other.

So here is one of the Great Ponderings of the human experience and beyond …

From the very first lifetime in human form … how long does it take to achieve the level of a Jesus … or a Buddha … or a Mother Teresa … or a Gandhi … or again … most anyone that you wish to put up at that level. How long does that take … and I’m talking in lifetimes.

How long does it take for any of us to form and then ultimately break even the simplest of habits even now … any and all of the substance addictions … how long does it take to put into a working perspective the difference between right and wrong … good or bad … beneficial or detrimental … how many lifetimes does it take when ANY-thing goes if it determines your simple survival or not? Lying, cheating, stealing, killing … setting karma into constant direction … and finally settling into learning the values and virtues … how long does that take?

By the time we have even found value in what is offered on this forum board … how long have we been at this?

Learn to appreciate where you’ve been. Where you’re going … is still your choice.

On we go. More to come.

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Thank you Z - This is really great. Quite a ride we have been through. I do not remember being algae - but I am sure I was.

Considerations Four …

Reincarnation and the Path 1B …

So much has been written about the sequential nature of a progression through Life in the psychic worlds. It has been approached and given a number of terms … dark to light … low to high … conscious to unconscious ( or vice versa ) … ignorant to knowing … lower and upper … slow or faster … elementary to advanced … bad to good … impure to pure … and on it goes. One could make quite a list of such designations.

The one factor that prevails through all of them … and on into the upper worlds. That one precept is … for and towards the more full or complete expression of LIFE. In other words … LIFE becomes more of ITSELF … starting in a lower state and progression upwards … towards a more complete and more full state of ITSELF.

It should be of no surprise the most everything is designed much like the progression used in the various education systems here. One starts in pre-school … advances to the elementary grades … on to middle school … up into the high schools … on to college … even more to the graduate level schools … even more to the post-graduate studies … and perhaps on out into Life itself … unless one chooses to stay within the sequential classroom for whatever purpose that individual designs.

As suggested in a previous post … the period between the coming into the human level of consciousness for the very first time where most anything goes for the purpose of individual survival … where there is little concern for law and order or for the virtues or ethics … that could might be termed as the pre-school of Life here. This is dog-eat-dog … lie, cheat, steal, murder … power and control over others in order to survive … and again … this is a part of the Path. How else would one start out on all of this and how else would it be learned?

A basic precept to all of this … Soul learns what It is … by first learning what It is not.

This is one of the main designs of the entire psychic worlds schoolroom … and yes … I’m just continuing to use these terms for ease and purpose of example.

Everything … given eternity to work with … advances through these levels … or layers … or however you wish to term this. From planetary systems to planets … galaxies … water vapor to the water drop … continents … nations … religions … philosophies … schools … races … on and on and on. Nothing says the same … forever … at least not here in the psychic worlds. Change is the name of the game … and again … given eternity to work with.

This should not be of any surprise to many.

More to come.

Thanks, zorkchop.

:-) :cool:

Considerations Five …

Reincarnation and the Path 1C …

So what can be said about all of this as each of us walks our own path towards greater truth. It can be said there are very few true coincidences in our daily lives. Everything is of a progressive nature and steam from cause and effect. The fact that the “cause” might have been established ten lifetimes ago means nothing to Life. That is one of the purposes of reincarnation … not only could we not “learn it all” in one lifetime … but we could not balance our own ledger in one lifetime … so … it carries on.

It has been said that the quickest way back to God is to deal with our daily lives. It is through our daily lives that the positive attribute are learned and ultimately lived. The ethics / morals / values of patience, tolerance, forgiveness, devotion, respect, stamina, dedication, reverence, and many, many more … are learned through the events of our daily lives. Karmic implications are thrown in as added incentive.

Most, if not all, people come out of the pre-school era into learning the materialistic way of life … the material goodies one wishes to have around them to make their own life more complete as they themselves see it … the more food, the bigger house, the more clothes, the faster car, you name it … we all know them.

One tends to refine these through a *long* series of lifetimes into the higher religions, the philosophies, the arts, literature, and the more fulfilling beauties of life as a whole.

The religions can be seen somewhat in the same line. From the purely ritualistic practices of bringing more rain or a more successful hunt, on up through the “fear God” religions and on to the “God is Love” studies … and on even more into the more involving practices of unity with God, meditation, the stopping of the troublesome mind, studies of karma, into the monasteries, and the retreat to caves and silence. You can almost see the progression from the more basic to the more detailed and involved.

People know and sense the value of these … they recognize them from previous lives. Not only that … but this is where much of the pursuit ends. Stop the mind … feel a unity … voila … the end of the Path.

I do not mean this as a smug statement. If you have glanced at the previous posts here … you can gain a sense of just how long it takes to get even to this point.

But beyond this … little known and rarely sought out … lie the mystery schools of the Sikhs, the Gnostics, the Rosicrucians, the Essenes … and on into the deeper mystery schools. By now little of true value is taught outwardly. Overall … the progression carries on. Many of these studies carries the teachings of the Eastern religions another step forward … and beyond that … another. These schools are most often found by those that “have eyes to see and ears to hear.” They would be overlooked and dismissed by those who cannot see their progressive values.

If one ponders this at all … they can catch a glimpse of LIFE starting in a center or core where the basics … the fundamentals … the pure building blocks of LIFE are given life themselves … and sent out into a concentric circle … and as the speed of vibration slows the farther all of this gets from the first impulse at the center … the rate finally slows enough to begin to form actual “things” of a solidifying nature of which we are all familiar. A thought is an actual “thing” on the mental worlds … an emotion is an actual solid experience on the astral … and all brought into focus within the human condition … and other life forms in the physical worlds.

Each follows the other … seeking growth and balance. There is a teaching for the understanding of Life as a Whole … and not parts to be dismissed or killed. All has its place … and though we might ultimately discover that things lie a bit more “beneficial” in outcome if we follow in “this” direction … we do not dismiss that the physical or the emotional or aspects of the mental are all there for a reason and each has their place in the Whole.

In the end … it is the discovery of discernment and discipline … and living it. Knowing the Life Forces and the Beauties of LIFE … and staying there in spite of all that goes on within individual lives … the best we can. This carries responsibility … awareness … and continued gratitude.

Admittedly … this has been a huge simplification of something that is much more profound. The ominous involvement in it all mostly stems from our attitude and perspective in how it affects us individually. To step somewhat out of it and be able to take a more objective / uninvolved / unemotional overview helps tremendously.

There is purpose … to Life.

This is the last on this topic. I’ll tie more into all of this as we go on.

More to come.

I am glad you are posting here as then it is here for posterity.

Thanks, zorkchop; kindly elaborate. I like this, above all:

In the end … it is the discovery of discernment and discipline … and living it. Knowing the Life Forces and the Beauties of LIFE … and staying there in spite of all that goes on within individual lives … the best we can. This carries responsibility … awareness … and continued gratitude.

Replies & Clarifications Three …

I’ll get there, Janielee. I am keeping a list of good possible questions / topics … and of the requesting for clarifications … and I could certainly turn to the forum board to offer insight about some of the ongoing perplexings that seem to go on and on forever.

Foundations first … then build on the basic understandings.

I won’t take long.

Thanks to all for showing an interest. Hopefully we can all learn a bit.

And thanks to the forum board technicians that got the board up and running again.

Considerations Six …

Know Thyself

Before I branch out into another area of interest, let me put forth a lifestyle technique that *can* pay big dividends to the one who practices this over an extended period of time. This *will* work … depending on the devotion and self-honesty of the individual. ( Both these “virtues” are levels of discernment and discipline. )

Knowing where you stand in any number of beliefs, patterns, and habits … uncovering what issues LIFE is trying to show you … beginning to catch a glimpse of just how and where these patterns might have started and why they continue … these aspects … and more … *can* begin to reveal themselves to you if you take up a disciplined lifestyle of keeping a daily spiritual journal. This is a major tool in the uncovering, discovering, and the understanding of Self. It is also a tool that few will use to the extent that it can provide the most results.

Keeping a daily spiritual journal is distinctly different from keeping a social network series of “This happened to me.” One … this will not be shared with anyone. No one. This needs to be a place where you can be totally honest with yourself to begin to see the depths of your patterns, habits, beliefs, and goals.

Second … be as clearly objective about the events you record as you can. Try not to get caught up in a second-by-second account of events. This is more along the lines of “I encountered someone that hinted at *this* pattern today” … or … “I got really caught up in *this* series of thoughts today and that was right before / after this happened to me.” This is not a he-said-she-said thing.

Third … which ties directly into the above second aspect … take just a few moments in your life when all is quiet … you know your own personal life best and you know when that is … to close your eyes and ask with all the soft sincerity you can muster for LIFE to show you what your issues are … what your limitations are … what’s holding you back … help me to *see* myself and my patterns … help me to discover what I can do to interact with YOU better … etc.

Something along those lines. It doesn’t have to be a prepared statement. It is an expression on your sincerity and willingness to learn … about Self … and you are turning to LIFE to show you. Do this every few days or week or so … to help remind yourself of really what you are looking for. The more you turn to LIFE for answers … the more IT will begin to work with you.

Then … jot down some notes as the day goes on … or … save some time during the day when you can review. It’s handy to take a brief note-to-self when the situation happens … because this world has a habit of helping you to forget how to tie all of this together.

You can develop this as deeply as you wish. Some keep digital journals … some keep handwritten notebooks. Make sure it is private. This is between you … and LIFE.

Just put these experiences down and stay as objective as you can. Just record them as if someone else is viewing them and do not know the underlying issues that you may personally try to inject into the recording of the event.

Then … every two weeks … at least every month … glance through the previous days and weeks. Where do the issues come together? What do the experiences show you as a group? Which one ties to what … and when … or to whom? Are there similarities? Do a whole bunch of similar experiences stack up on you during a particular week or month? Look for the patterns. Again … pretend you are an outside sleuth who is trying to solve a puzzle … and try to keep your feelings / emotions / expectations out of it.

To stay objective and few the experiences with “unattached eyes” is key. Pretend you are a space alien and know nothing about Earth life and we Earthlings. Discover your own techniques of staying out of your own way.

Soon … the patterns will emerge. You begin to truly know … Self. You can determine which patterns are beneficial … and which are not. But just knowing these patterns is a massive step / practice the few turn to. A person may ask for assistance or revelation of an issue … and then the experience may be given 2-3-4 days later … and s/he forgets the request was even made. If you try to pre-determine a list of issues to watch for … you may get so involved on watching and waiting for them that you totally overlook issues that are otherwise clearly shown to you. Again … let LIFE call the shots. Just keep track of it all and then look for similarities later. Keep it short … keep it simple … keep it objective … keep it basic … and let it work for you.

I will be somewhat addressing what can be done when a pattern is understood to be what it is and you want to change it. There are … ways. But let’s take this one step at a time.

This can be a lifestyle change … and it doesn’t have to tie you up so much that you become fanatic about it. Do it often enough for it to pay off for you. Look for clues … yes … but not so much detail that you get mired in it all.

Dream journals can be used for much the same purposes but must be interpreted and approached in an entirely different way. For now … let’s focus on our conscious, daily life.

I’ve got journals dating back 30+ years.

I have learned a lot from them.

More to come.

Thanks, zorkchop.

Considerations Seven …

We did not forget …

Irritation Factor … moderate

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With this post I am going to initiate using a scale I will call the Irritation Factor … because my posts on these topics are not going to set well with many on this board. I truly do not mean to intentionally set these people off … but if I am going to be true to my choice of offering at least just an honest touch of esoterica … what I offer in such posts may just go against what many believe and what is being widely taught. Please be advised.

I will offer the Irritation Factor only on posts I believe would be appropriate. I am not commanding anyone to believe. Just … consider. Plug in some of this information and any else I might offer … and let it roll around inside for a while … and observe how the puzzle pieces perhaps readjust.

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Right at the beginning I will again clearly state … Soul is *not* mind … and mind is *not* Soul.

Period.

Soul does not have the “luxury” of having a brain that we in the human state of consciousness use for memory … and other features. Soul was not created with a ready set of knowledge … or even with a built-in awareness of how to gain said knowledge.

Therefore … Soul did not come here and forget everything. It never knew in the first place. Why else would this entire set of psychic worlds be designed for the gaining of experience for individual Soul … if Soul already knew. Soul was *not* created just for some toy puppetry to engage in this Psychic Wonderland. Soul was created for a definite purpose … and if it were not for the creation of Soul Itself … nothing would exist anywhere save for the Core Creator God ( simple generic term ) and ITS Essence … Divine Spirit … by whatever name you wish to call Pure, Divine Spirit.

To follow the sequence … Soul discovers what It (Soul) is by first discovering what It (Soul) is not. In these slower, lower, heavier psychic worlds … Soul discovers what It is not. (Please do not attack the messenger. I did not design the system.)

One of the great paradoxes on the Path is finally discovering and realizing that Soul is the greatest of all Creations … Soul … as the individual creation that It is … and yet initially it is the most apprehensive, ignorant, easily frightened, incapable Creation in existence … if one can put human emotions and reactions on Soul Itself. If you believe that a newborn infant “knows nothing” … a newborn is a genius when compared to an actual fledgling Soul … thrown here totally out of Its element … and left to flounder for eons.

Again … please do not get upset with me. I did *not* design the system.

Talk about a “clean slate” … Soul barely knows It has a slate at all … and I couldn’t state with assurance that It does know It has a “slate.” Since Soul first become aware through the mental awareness and then builds upon that mental system … it is impossible for Soul to know any difference.

Using an appropriate example … let’s say a fish is created in the Heavenly Worlds. Immediately after creation … the fish is not given a short time to swim around in a waterless world to discover just how wonderful this world is … and then is thrown down into a watery world on Earth … where it can now breathe and interact in a more stable environment. Both Earth and water itself would be a “heavier” world than the Heavenly Realms … and the fish in the fishbowl of the world cannot even see out of its own world much at all … if any. This fish will stay here until it can learn to breath air and climb up on the rim of the fishbowl … and then learn to exist there. This certainly might take a while.

And yet it is designed this way for reasons that become apparent after a long, long trek through these worlds … which is … part of the overall Path in the first place.

Soul Itself is not simply a more advance non-physical version of the human state of consciousness. Soul Itself has a vastly different set of faculties and perceptions that have been overshadowed by mind and the psychic worlds for eons. And how to finally realize this?

How else?

Personal experience.

A precept that one can count on during the duration of the Path … Truth must be uncovered and realized … deception is freely and popularly provided.

But even this … is a paradox. When one is young and everything is new … each step must be uncovered and discovered … and then lived. Trial-and-error. That’s the name of the game. Discernment leads to sensing beneficial truth and then knowing what is deceiving and what is not … and will also give clues as to ones next possible step.

So Soul did not know … and then forget. But since the mind is thoroughly capable of designing any scenario for the individual to believe in … the mind can easily claim top status and that nothing else exists. And here … in this hodge-lodge of psychic layers and levels … mind *does* reign supreme. Soul is out of Its element here and will allow mind to become the inner master.

One more time … I did not design the system. But consider this …

This system was designed … because it works … and effectively so. LIFE … and Soul Itself … is unconcerned with eons and seemingly endless lifetimes.

More later.

Considerations Eight …

Duality …

Irritation Factor … high to extreme

- - o-0-O-O-0-o - -

It is not my intention to just come here and post contradictions to a lot of the posts on this board. My intention here is to try and portray the best I can … an overview … a looking down at the puzzle from a more broad, comprehensive perspective … gained from actual personal experience … and at the same time knowing that these perspectives are many times incredibly difficult to consider … simply because they are *not* what is widely and favorably taught … and the current teachings have been around for a long, long time … developed through a logically perceived continuous manner to appeal to the human condition.

Since the time of the first human stepping onto this planet … and up through the ages … man has been plagued with a mind running wild. The mind can endlessly spin all on its own … all by itself. The chief facet feeding the mind are the eyes. The mind was given to Soul so that It could analyze and compare what was going on around it in the daily life of the individual here in the psychic worlds. When an individual sees something and has a reaction to it … or later relives the incident and has mental reactions to it … the mind can continue to just jabber endlessly. We’ve all been through this … and many continue to do so.

Not only was a respite from the daily hardships highly sought after by the human animal … but there was also a massive desire for the mind to just shut up … even for a few moments.

( Don’t worry … I’ll get to duality. )

So the religions and philosophers slowly constructed some lofty goals for the religious teachings themselves. One … to stop the mind … and two … the end goal of all is to return to God and just float endlessly without responsibility or adversity. Just float about without thought in the arms of God … and forget all … for eternity. Total and perpetual R&R. Complete relief and absolving all.

My point being … that the meaning of duality was hijacked to mean separation from God … since many of the religions teach that unity with God is the end goal.

That is *not* the case … and I am going to clearly state here … that this does *not* make these religions wrong … no more than a high school sophomore is “wrong” in the educational progression from kindergarten to college graduate … or whatever terms are used in your personal locale. People have taken to these eastern religions because they are a “next step” in their own sequence … providing a much deeper discovery of karma, reincarnation, and the various psychic energies than the previous religions and philosophies. One builds upon the next. On it goes.

People also recognize the teachings of the eastern religions because we have all had *many* lifetimes in them … and they are familiar. That often brings comfort.

Duality is not separation. No one can actually separate themselves from God. Everything is theoretically a part of God … and technically speaking … that is also true … to an extent. Regardless … nothing can be separated from LIFE. Perception of separation is just that … perception. The Core Creator God ( generic term ) did not create Soul to eventually come back to IT and become one with IT and then surrender all experience to God and just … become a floating entity without responsibility to its own stance within LIFE as the Whole that IT is. God did not create Soul to discover all of this through experience … and then get to the point where you unplug and float. Even to mind … that does not make sense … but one cannot dismiss the incredible desire for endless R&R … a cessation to the turmoil and struggle … and the endless mental chatter. Without doubt … there is the extreme desire to find total respite from the perpetual hassles of daily life … and union with God would fill that bill perfectly.

That’s just not the way it turns out to be.

And to find an end goal in stopping the mind brings some relief … but it is only a step in the overall progression. One does not step beyond mind by simply stopping the thought process … no more than one automatically steps out of a car if s/he simply allows the car to slow to a halt.

When one returns from the deep trance state where mind has slowed to a stop … all the mental beliefs are still “there” within the individual. It is these beliefs (etc) that must be controlled and revised … although I will say … the slowing and stopping of the mind is a technique we all learn … eventually. It is a necessary step.

So … what is duality? And why does it pertain only to the psychic worlds … of which Earth is a part?

In a nutshell … duality is polarity. Duality is … that something exists only in relation to its opposite. There is no low without a high … there is no fast without a slow … there is no valley without a mountain … there is no male without female … there is no young without old … etc. x however long you wish to carry that out. Everything in these psychic worlds has its opposite … somewhere. Everything has its dual nature … in relation to its opposite.

The basic premise … in these worlds … there is a positive and a negative element to the atom … and this allows for an interaction for manifestation … from thought right down to the physical vehicle.

And as difficult as it may seem … there is no negative element or an “energy atom” in the Pure God Worlds. The formation of those worlds … for lack of better words … is not geared out of “energy” as we know it.

If someone wishes to continue to banter about the ideal of separation / non-separation … as becoming wholly one with the experience … that certainly can continue to the extent that one can encounter and experience it. An individual will certainly become more adept at this … but there is never a total immersion into a level of consciousness where one actually does lose oneself in the Core Creator God … and lose the individuality ( not separateness ) (not part ) that was given to each at the moment of the creation of each individual Soul.

The religions and philosophies are marvelous arenas of learning. What can be learned with any of them … is seemingly endless. There are lessons within each that *must* be learned because many Souls will eventually reach the “end” of the Path … so to speak … traveling into and becoming wholly acquainted with the Pure God Worlds (another generic term) … and will return to the lower worlds to assist. One needs to be completely familiar with the ongoings here in order to stay on top of it all … even after the “end” has been attained. Though it is rare … it is entirely possible for one who has indeed attained the “end” … to slip and forget when coming back into these worlds to assist … and to get trapped in it all over again. It takes ongoing work to stay out of the traps and the pitfalls.

Such is the nature of the lower psychic worlds.

Please try not to belittle, condemn, or dismiss any of religions or philosophies just because there is “something beyond them” or there is “another level” above them.

I have one more possible irritation topic to discuss and then I will ease back a bit.

More later.

Thanks zorkchop, I don't think anything you are saying is controversial or irritating (personally speaking)
Can you speak more about above? (in green)
Thanks,
JL

janielee …

I truly appreciate and applaud your questions and your interest. I don’t have much farther to go in trying to somewhat lay a foundation … and then I will try to address some more personal issues … to me … and to others. I have kept copies of all your questions and keep them in the rather large and growing folder where I try to put together these posts. I will get to your questions … I promise … or I will try my best to do so.

Have patience. I should be getting into this phase this week … but keep making your queries. They help give these posts Life.

Until them … try to understand … that often the mind just wants to “know” and then when it finds out the answer it turns out to be a huge let-down. Understanding greater reality has more to do with simplifying it … and not analyzing it more. A deeper analysis … a parting out of the Whole … is what actually destroys our ability to see the Whole.

But even knowing that … there *is* a place for an answer or two. Your sincerity shows. You are to be commended.

Zork

Zorkchop, I think your posts are incredible. I find a lot of truths in them. It feels like though you are getting ready to join what I call the intra-verse. I see a lot of Advaita Vedanta philosophies in your teachings.

What you label as high and low energy can be inverted. A question, what happens then?

If fire is high energy, and water is low energy.
If water is high energy, and fire is low energy.

What truth exists now?


What I am asking above might completely change your perspective. Even open up a whole new frontier of possibilities. Enjoy the ride my friend.

Johnathanrs …

Thank you for your input. I’m glad you find some value in what I put out.

If you have read many or most of my posts … you will have seen by now that all is a progression. LIFE teaches … and people long ago collected some understood-at-that-time concepts and principles and made the “Advaita Vedanta” philosophies out of them. They are to be commended … they have established a widely-known religion / philosophy that many can learn from.

When one has learned most all one can from any set of teachings … they move on. The teaching of 1+1=2 is a teaching that even the advanced mathematician will use.

The collection of teachings called “Advaita Vedanta” are called that by those that follow them … or are well known to them. Those who have yet to discover their worth will call them gibberish. Those who have moved beyond them will call them some of the lessons to be learned in the psychic worlds.

As far as fire and water goes … fire is an enflaming energy … or can be … and water is a settling / resting energy … or can be. Fire can be all the way from the electrical impulses that fire through our physical bodies to the monstrous tail of the comet. Water can be a droplet in a gentle mist or the rage of a massive waterfall on the Amazon.

Energy is energy … to be used as necessary … and can be directed according to the abilities of those directing it. Energy … is of the lower psychic worlds and is a “tool” or an element that we learned to adapt to … and utilize. The inner symbols of “fire” or “water” can be inwardly used for many assistive behaviors and patterns.

“Energy” is certainly learned to be appreciated here … for what it is. It can be a complicated understanding … or a simplified, practical one. As always … truth is often a perception from where one “is” at the moment.

You have traveled well.

On we go.

blog post
 

Hi Zorkchop ,

Must thank you for an elaborate blog posts about your spiritual journey and how it can help any one . It's highly appreciated and once again thank you very much .

I have a humble feedback on below remark .

In religious circles generally there is an escapist path to God . Person is troubled here and as an escape to trouble route to God makes sense . There is nothing wrong in it so long as it leads one to real life purpose .

Side effect of that is a perception like person becomes a floating entity without responsibility to its stance within life . With true understanding of spirituality and any religion , person becoming one / non-dual with God is still full of energy charm cheers responsibility . If you would have studied the life span of great masters / God , you would realize they were full of life and responsibility when they lived .

There is another perspective that there is greater / better life with spirituality and to experience that better life one has to understand /appreciate and practice spirituality . With this perspective small and young people , rich /affluent/powerful /celebrities get to understand /enjoy and practice spirituality . With escapist perspective alone , spirituality simply remains weak mental psychological support system of the troubled / weak / sick /aged / poor .That's certainly not the point and focus of spirituality .

Hitesh Shah …

Thank you for your kind observations. Altho the posts are indeed about “my” spiritual journey … the posts are geared towards what most anyone will discover when the greater heights are reached. There certainly will be additional discoveries added to all of this.

Tho my gathering of posts may be “elaborate” … they can by no means be complete. Your points are valid and well taken. Individual perspectives on all of this is a great part of what makes the Path so endless.

Thank you for adding to what is being said here.

So do I. :wink:

Considerations Nine …

God

Irritation level … moderate

- - o-0-O-O-0-o - -

To talk about God is to talk about the ineffable … there are no words that can accurately describe what God is.

All of Existence can be somewhat described as a massive sphere … and the word “massive” falls WaY short. Considering the size of just the physical universe … the spawning of all that exudes from the Core must be simply ineffable … indescribable … beyond words. That is a main reason why the entire Existence of the Core Creator God (CCG)(generic term) is often termed as just … IS. IT IS … IT simply exists.

From the Center this Existence of God gives off what might be called an Essence … somewhat like an aura … and this exudes outwardly … radiating from the center like an ever-expanding Life Force. This Force has been called many things … from Divine Spirit … Pure Spirit … Holy Ghost … etc. This Force has nothing to do with any negative element as of yet. The expansion is given IT’s outward expression by the Force of the CCG giving IT off in the first place.

The farther away from the Center … the “slower” it gets. It finally arrives at an “area” where the negative element is added … obviously an “area” of much upheaval.

From here … things can now be manifested … and “energy” is established as we know it. It continues to slow … and eventually resolves into the ever-expanding solidarity of the outer rim … the physical universe. A handy observation of this is the point of entry … where the Astral slows enough to manifest the physical. This upheaval is often given the term of Big Bang. You can imagine the various occurrences of the previous dimensions slowing to form each one. An astounding … quite beautiful expression. Truly amazing.

The CCG that sets all of this in existence remains as IT IS. A hierarchy is carried on down through the levels and by the time the psychic worlds are created … a separate, “Negative Energy” is manifested there … to deal with the negative element in the lower worlds manifestations.

There are hierarchal “gods” that maintain and control all of this. These are the gods of the various religions and philosophies. They each have their place. They each have their duties. Without their interaction … these psychic worlds would dissipate.

These psychic gods can certainly perform miraculous things within their own designated worlds. Since these lower worlds all revolve around balance … karma … and the establishment of reincarnation allow for the originating and the settling of the karmic influences within the realms themselves and all the way to the individual … an amazing number of names and declarations / responsibilities have been given to these various gods at and within their various levels.

For the most part … the “bad things” that happen are of our own volition … often spawned from ignorance. We often “pay off” karmic influences from lifetimes ago … without knowing the “why” of it in the present lifetime. Slowly the influences are balanced and things greatly ease up … altho while here in these worlds … each individual must adhere to the Laws of Karma … by whatever name one wishes to use there. Even the “gods” running this show will eventually have to resolve their positions.

So … is there a God?

Yes.

Is or are their Gods that fulfill what the religions and philosophies promote?

Yes.

Are they the same?

Absolutely not.

The lower world Gods are here to maintain the psychic realms with which we interact here … and we each constantly get ourselves into our own designed messes from which we invariably ask for relief. When we work our way out of each karmic influence … we will get relief. Until we get this under our control … we habitually just pile influence upon influence.

(Again … don’t shoot the messenger. I didn’t design this.)

Each individual will follow the “gods” of their choice. I will say this … as I have often said … this entire schoolroom is absolutely ruthless … and that is an understatement.

- - o-0-O-O-0-o - -

I’m going to be moving away from the rather contentious topics for a while. A post just above gave another reference to these entries being more of a “blog” post … and I will admit … I don’t … and haven’t … read any “blogs” so I don’t really know what makes these posts as such. It might be that I initially asked to not comment on these posts and just let me put my information in “unopposed” in a sense.

If that’s the case … then I will state here … in my observation … this is the reason why many of posted topics get side-tracked and waylaid … and lose the impact that the topic could have. Many people just want to oppose … to counter … and then the entire post gets caught up in a bickering match. Maybe 10-20 posts later … it somewhat gets back on the initial topic.

Hopefully many who have read these posts can now get a sense that this whole Path scenario *does indeed* follow somewhat of a sequential, progressive order … and the bickering destroys the overview perspective of that. Someone wishes to get caught up in *this* puzzle piece whereas if they waited a bit and see how and where that puzzle piece fit … he contention may ease up a bit.

One thing one does discover over time … you have to let this stuff work *for* you. Every little facet can be confronted and argued over. Ego wishes to believe that *I* know what’s right and *you* don’t.

Doing this just makes discovery all the more difficult … but it is also a deep, deep part of the human condition. It will never stop.

But as you can see … I do not mind comments … and have tried to respond. Feel free to do so. I try to post every 2-3 days.

More later.

Considerations Ten …

Personal Confessions 1A …

Before I go much farther with this I do want you all to know that I have truly and deeply shared your confusion, your frustration, your bewilderment, your bitterness, your total mystification … whatever you can possibly name … I have been there too … in figuring out just what “this” is all about.

I’m not here to gather followers … to convince when you don’t want to be convinced … to claim MY Path is the best … to see if I can sway in spite of resistance.

Through incredible and seemingly inhuman personal effort … I have taken a few steps into areas where many have yet to even consider … let alone visit. But on the way … I have held my clenched fists to the sky … wept buckets of tears … driven myself into total despair and worse … totally given it all up only to find out that I can’t … on and on and on.

I have heard the words I have spoken here … and the words I will put out in the future … I have heard them given to me personally in past lifetimes and rebelled.

Habits … BaH !

Mental patterns … BaH!

Belief systems and limitations … Nuh-Uh.

I didn’t want to hear it … I didn’t want to accept it. It’s too much … it’s beyond me … I can’t take it anymore … it’s not worth it.

Etc times wherever your imagination can take it all.

And so … you end that lifetime … and come back for another one … and somehow it seems just a little bit more familiar and therefore you’re just a touch more receptive to it.

And then you do that again … and again … and again … and …

Sometime there is a corner that you turn … “Hey - this stuff actually *does* make a bit of sense … “ … and … horror of horrors … “Wow … I really *was* limiting myself.”

And then you do that again … and again … and again … and …

And then … “Hey wow … that’s a mind game. That’s a mental con job. I can see the game and I don’t really know where it came from or how / why I set it up … but I don’t want any part of it this time around … or at least … I don’t want any part of it for the moment right now. That’s an old mental pattern that’s trying to convince me to see things *this* way when I know better than to accept it as that.”

And the old patterns lose their power … their ability to coerce … and you encounter an ongoing and slowly enhancing clarity.

Not mental.

Beyond.

How do you know?

The inner teachers become more lofty … the teachings deal with a greater reality … the inner landmarks of dimensions and forms and lack of forms and the higher vibrations of various levels that are clearly distinguishable … you never saw them before but when you see them now they “make sense” … you recognize them … the powers enhance … the awareness grows … you distinguish among belief and habit and pattern and consciousness and awareness and immersion and individuality and … Spirit. The puzzle pieces *do* form a picture and that picture offers a deeper understanding. Not opinion … not belief … not knowing … but understanding.

They are recognizable … and they do work together to make the Whole of Life.

Am I (zorkchop) personally “there”?

No.

I’ve got some things in front of me.

But the greater picture is there … and it is worth seeing … or more accurately … experiencing.

The “thing vs no-thing” is understood … the “beyond mind” isn’t as mysterious as it once was … and it’s not just a settling … a resignation … or a listless surrender.

It’s an understanding.

It IS there … and in the end … there’s really nothing you can do about it. As I’ve said before … you’ve got eternity to work with. You’re only living the current lifetime. A hundred lifetimes from now … a thousand … ? ? … where will you be ?

You will “get there” … and all the “get there’s” in between.

And then it’s an entirely different ballgame … one that mind cannot understand and is not meant to understand. But that doesn’t dismiss or destroy the mind as a total con job. It is the individual that allows the mind to get out of control. In the beginning … we never knew. In the middle times … it was too hard. In the ending times … it’s revision and refinement … one at a time … until mind is an ally and not an enemy. Mind is your servant and not your master. Mind is *the* tool while here … for what it was meant to be used for.

That is one of the great things we are to discover.

But we unknowingly let mind take over and control our lives. We didn’t know better. The entire schoolroom is designed to make us face this … eventually.

There are topics on this board that suggest that “faith” is overplayed and unnecessary. I strongly disagree. Sometimes … even often … it is your “faith” that the goal exists in the first place … that keeps you going. It’s beyond “hope” … it is a faithful belief that the goal IS there and that it *can* be attained. It might be in the year 5028 … but I will get there … and it will be worth it.

Meanwhile … I keep a handy supply of crying towels and blood-pressure medication. ( HeH ) Not so much anymore … but there were times.

I have no idea if any of this means anything to anybody … but it’s what you are in the middle of … whether you know it or not.

I’m working on a Confessions 1B for tomorrow … and then I’ll move on to things more practical and useful.

On we go.

More later.

It is good what you are writing, and I agree that what you are imparting is valuable, however I feel that you are responding to the Western state of spiritual understanding - or perhaps to the generic understanding of many parts of this forum, its topics, etc. Which is ok - perhaps a little limited and therefore slightly offensive. I am not personally offended at all - I love that you are here contributing !!

When you talk about Eastern Spirituality you seem not to understand (Hindu, Jain and Buddhist, ) that the Path leads to an inconceivable realized state of beingness - the core essence of our true eternal Self and the Great Self. I have a feeling you may not have studied these traditions, met the Siddhas (accomplished ones ) of these Traditions to know they are real and true. That they offer profound ways to transform the mind, to travel to Spirit world, to enginer their future births if wanted, when and where, and who their parents will be, etc.

The ability of these and other Traditions practices to realize experiential truth, to move into the spiritual planes of existence and witness, experience, and understand. Many ways to integrate awareness at many levels, and keep moving in personal, global and trans-global evolution.

So, again kudos for this thread in so many ways ! I hope what I say inspires you to keep writing here, your voice is needed and good.

Replies & Clarifications Four …

BE … good to see you back. I always found worth in your earlier offerings and encouragement.

To clarify a bit … I am not here to compare, contradict, or compete for or against the various religions or the geographical Eastern verses Western. Each religion and philosophy has tremendous value within their realms of teaching. I am mostly here to try and address the progressive / evolutionary nature of the Path.

I have used the progressive style of our educational systems to somewhat portray this. let’s try another approach …

Let’s take a huge skyscraper building in New York City … or the Eiffel Tower in Paris … or the pyramids in Egypt …

Each of those started out as a mere concept in someone’s mind. After many ponderings as to design, function, value, stature, durability, and necessary construction materials needed … blueprints were drafted and again pondered over before the final prints were approved. Then contractors are hired, the building materials gathered, the manpower assembled, the land bought and cleaned, etc. Ultimately the structure rises … is finished … and becomes a part of the landscape.

The religions and philosophies formed to promote what they offer in their understanding and outline of “the Path” is quite similar. Everything starts somewhere … and goes somewhere. A core understanding of God is formed … and then broken down into the various religions and philosophies according to those who wish to “refine” and augment their set of teachings. Each is fabulous at their stage of guidance.

I have no doubt whatsoever the value and worth of the “accomplished siddha’s” and other proponents of the Eastern … or Western religions.

Let’s just say …

That an individual approaches, accepts, and deeply follows the Eastern religions for lifetime after lifetime. Let’s just say … that this same individual becomes very skillful in the ways of the mind and the design of each lifetime and such … as you pointed out.

Let’s just say … this goes on for a thousand lifetimes … each building upon the other. This goes on for one-and-a-half eternities. ( An obvious tongue-in-cheek statement … just to carry a concept forward. )

Eventually … that individual is gonna ask … is there something beyond?

Yes … there is. That’s mostly what I am here to just suggest. I am not here to demand it. I am not here to demand that “whatever” is the only way. I am just broadening the scope a bit … widening the vision … the understanding.

The above person could say to him / herself … “So what if there’s possibly something beyond … I love what I’m doing and I’m gonna continue for another one-and-a-half eternities.”

Way cool.

All I’m saying is … there is a more broad view … a wider expression of Life … a more full expansion of Truth … beyond the Eastern *or* Western religions and philosophies.

Some of the topics as asked within this forum are the same questions each religion asks … and has asked for eons. It’s perhaps helpful to catch a glimpse in where they may fall in the progression of understanding … to coin a phrase.

Hopefully you will continue to find some value in what I put forth here … and I again value your input. I believe that what I am really trying to accomplish here is to carry on with some kind of broadening of viewpoint without getting sidetracked by assaults, contradictions, and demands. That’s why I designed the whole “Replies and Clarifications” approach … to keep it separate from where I hope to take all of this.

When the consensus by those in the forum board is … “Enough … we’ve had enough … please stop … “ … these posts will stop. I am not here to aggravate anyone.

In the meantime … on we go. Keep your inquiries and personal assessments coming, BE. They are appreciated.

Another post to follow later.

All I can say is when it clicks it clicks, life is a whole lot easier, will never be the same and in the best of ways.

The interesting thing to me is it's right there all along hiding in plain sight, yet so easy to miss. The veil is chock-full of so many potent distractions that hinder realization.

Thanks, nothing to disagree with from here. :smile:

jl

Yes, very good points Z - and since the eastern and other Mystical sytems that are experientially based and whether open-ended or not - the Liberated Realization brings one to open-ended progression. This is something alot might not know or understand - is that after Actual (and profound) Realization - then one continues onward in evolution - the evolution is ungraspable by the limited mind and yet integrated into this life and its associations sponteniously. Self Realization alone clears 97% of our individual suffering right away. and if it is True Genuine Realization - then that personal suffering does not come back - it is gone forever. Also, the Path goes on and on in development including after death of the physical body.

I do agree that there are very few who reach this level compared to exsisting humanity and many of them keep to themselves. And it is so easy to get embedded for 1 & 1/2 eons, etc into one or more Traditions like you say.

Thus ever onward, inward and ?? hehe

A boat is useful for crossing a river, but once across leave the boat. Do not carry it on one's back. :wink:

Replies & Clarifications Four …

BE …

I should have put this in my earlier response to you …

Two Things …

One … show me where I made any claims against the Eastern religions. All I said was … all religions and philosophies are in sequence along a progressive evolution. What the individual can get out of them is up to the individual.

Two … show me where you can clearly state that I have *not* studied with great teachers … Siddha’s and otherwise … in past lives. Tell me that I have not studied under the “greats” that the current eastern scholars now discuss in their sacred historical texts.

The eastern religions are incredibly familiar to me. There is only one way to gain such familiarity. Studying under the teachers at the time … I left to further my education.

Enough said.

JASG …

An unfoldment is just that … an evolutionary unfoldment. Part of that is yes … discovering that which was right there in front of you all the time. If you have a tiny bean secluded under five bedding mattresses … and the whole conglomeration is right in front of you … it is the wrestling with the mattresses that exposes the bean. It was right in front of you all the time but it was disguised and hidden so you absolutely could *not* see it.

All part of the architecture of the school room.

Janielee …

Trust me … I *will* get to your interests. It’s taking a while … but the pieces are slowly arranging into a recognizable picture. As I stated earlier … I am keeping a list of the queries you put forth. I want to let all of this unfurl in its own way and its own time.

You still are to be commended for your interests.

Considerations Eleven …

Personal Confessions 1B …

I do not know how long ago I came upon the principle or precept that Soul Itself is *the* most powerful … *the* most capable entity in all of Creation / Existence … the Core Creator God (CCG) never having been created … and the various angels and lower world gods and such are still … Soul … working at or from the level they have attained.

I mean … if Soul is *the* most capable (etc) then what the heck am I going through all of this for?

In the end … it all falls into place. You learn what not to be … by first being that which is limited … and if Soul is *that* powerful … and It is … then the education must be absolutely complete and thorough.

You would not give a six-year-old a box of dynamite and a match to play with … and you would not give an entity who could create a world … the ability to do so until It realizes the full consequences.

It doesn’t make any difference at all what I wanted to hear. LIFE was going to direct my life and press me up so far against the wall to make me drop the limitations that I had little choice … or suffer even more than I was at the moment. In the end … it wasn’t the habitual pattern that was so difficult to change but the mental and emotional resistances to it that made it a struggle.

This … is key.

And it’s an astounding realization.

I also found out that it’s not a matter of reaching a Heaven with streets of gold and extra-comfy clouds to kick back on … for eternity. I have said it before and I will say it again … there are responsibilities to yourself and to LIFE in all of this … *if* you wish to stay in the worlds beyond.

You can always drop back to the psychic worlds and continue.

You find out … that Truth is not for the masses. Truth is for those that are willing to dig in and discover it … and make it work in their own personal lives. As you move on … there are plenty of those coming up behind you to take your place as you attend to more lofty endeavors.

Another thing that is a true change in perspective … you do not have to know in order to act … but you do have to act in order to know.

How many people want the answer … and then they’ll make whatever changes are necessary. *Prove* it to me first … and *then* I’ll consider it.

You have to take the risk … put in the effort … plug it in … ( yes … quietly … if you’re smart ) … and see how it fits … see how it works … see why it might be a vital part of the puzzle. You have to act … to carry the risk forward and explore the unknown … slowly … baby-steps … before you will know.

But mind will happily and often violently tell you … NO … don’t go there … don’t try that … don’t be stupid. And for most … for the most part … they will listen to mind. That does NOT make them wrong. Most will listen … when mind whispers … “No … *this* is the way … stay with the familiar.”

LIFE *will* eventually drag you kicking and screaming towards the final discoveries for which this entire schoolroom was designed. It is *our* resistance … that makes it difficult … and it is *our* unwillingness to listen to those that have been there before … that keeps it all a mystery. Discernment … saves a lot of time, effort, and grief.

Put these together with … we will walk *our* Path in *our* way and in *our* own time … which we certainly have the right to do … but it often makes for unnecessary struggles.

Yet for the most part … we often choose the latter.

Lots of people want the easy version of Truth … the capsule version … the e-book version. Do you really believe that *that* is the way LIFE would wish to reveal IT’s secrets?

There’s work involved … and effort … and lots of it … either now … or later.

And when someone discovers greater Truth … it is not theirs. They do not possess it. They cannot claim that it is mine … I own it. They have simply discovered and realized a level of Truth that was previously unknown to them … but was “there” all the time. They just couldn’t see it. And you also discover the validity of not giving these Truths to others unless and until they have the eye to see and the ears to hear. They will happily tell you why they do not wish to see … by whatever disguise they are using at the time.

And so … you move on … individually … and here is one of the great revelations that you discover …

Your interaction and relationship is with LIFE now … and not people. You delight in your interactions and relationships with people for what they are … and I will say this … there are few things that are more fulfilling than a truly loving, deeply involving and giving relationship with the opposite sex. When a man and a woman are deeply, deeply in love and smoothly work at it to keep it fresh and alive … there are few greater experiences to be had … certainly in the lower psychic worlds.

But ultimately you begin to interact with LIFE … and LIFE becomes your constant companion … and that works and fulfills just fine. You are not a fanatic … you are not a rebel … you are not a critic … you are not superior …

You are simply a working part of LIFE and you understand this precept … and are willing to serve. And then …

On we go.

More later.

thanks zorkchop for the encouragement; more about responsibility please and the relationship part is nice. thanks.