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-   -   HOW to REACH to the SPIRITUAL WORLD (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=125779)

OPVerma 18-10-2018 05:39 AM

HOW to REACH to the SPIRITUAL WORLD
 
WE ON SF DISCUSS VARIOUS SUBJECT and hope to reach to the spiritual world by doing so automatically. It is like hoping to become a Harvard professor just by discussion and without any degree and knowledge. For going to the spiritual world we need preparation and fulfill the following requirements.

1. QUALIFICATION ; Besides practicing some standard form of yoga to burn negative karma, one must be a noble and virtuous person like RAMA. Spiritual World is a classy place and village bums are not admitted there.

2. KNOWLEDGE OF THE ROUTE ; Bhagavad Gita describes 8;23-27 Archi route to the spiritual world that requires the knowledge of sun moon and earth's movements and their alignment for reaching to the center of Galaxy and from there to the spiritual world. A diagram and road map is given in the '21st CENTURY BHAGAVAD GITA.

3. ACQUIRING VISA One must regularly pray to the 4Great gods for taking them to the spiritual world and tell family members to utter in ears the mantra given in BG ;7.30 in your ears on the death bed.

This is what one should to for reaching to the spiritual world.














9

OPVerma 18-10-2018 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OPVerma
WE ON SF DISCUSS VARIOUS SUBJECT and hope to reach to the spiritual world by doing so automatically. It is like hoping to become a Harvard professor just by discussion and without any degree and knowledge. For going to the spiritual world we need preparation and fulfill the following requirements.

1. QUALIFICATION ; Besides practicing some standard form of yoga to burn negative karma, one must be a noble and virtuous person like RAMA. Spiritual World is a classy place and village bums are not admitted there.

2. KNOWLEDGE OF THE ROUTE ; Bhagavad Gita describes 8;23-27 Archi route to the spiritual world that requires the knowledge of sun moon and earth's movements and their alignment for reaching to the center of Galaxy and from there to the spiritual world. A diagram and road map is given in the '21st CENTURY BHAGAVAD GITA.

3. ACQUIRING VISA One must regularly pray to the 4Great gods for taking them to the spiritual world and tell family members to utter in ears the mantra given in BG ;7.30 in your ears on the death bed.

This is what one should do for reaching to the spiritual world.

rrrrrrr rrrrrrr rrrr aaaa aaaa aaa aaa aaa aaa aaa aaa aaa aa aaa aaa rrrrr rrrr














9

This is what one should do for reaching to the spiritual world.

sky123 18-10-2018 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OPVerma
This is what one should do for reaching to the spiritual world.




Thank you for the advice, very informative, I had a feeling I was doing something wrong :D

wstein 18-10-2018 07:29 AM

There is no 'should' to this adventure.

This *might* be one way to reach the 'Spiritual World' but certainly not the only nor the best way.

To use your analogy about the Harvard professor, how did the first Harvard professors get to be professors if there were no previous Harvard professors?? Who acted as the VISA issuing authority before anyone was already vetted to do so? Clearly they had to do it without prior help.

How many of the great spiritual people had QUALIFICATIONs and VISAs? Seems to me that Buddha for instance spent many years wandering around to various traditions trying to gain entrance until he finally gave up, sat down, and figured it out by himself.

Looking outside is totally counter to spiritual pursuit. The door to the 'Spiritual World' is internal (to yourself).

Rah nam 18-10-2018 08:39 AM

I am flabbergasted, what kind of spiritual world (existence) does one reach with this practice?

Unseeking Seeker 18-10-2018 09:36 AM

In my view, to ascend, evolve, any path is fine as long as we endeavour to get to the roots. Choose Bhakti/prayer, meditation or selfless service, as of inclination, it does not matter.

Our choice, zeal, fervour is the key, the Universe does the rest. Automatically.

Peace

Native spirit 18-10-2018 09:44 AM

We all go to the spirit world.we all come from spirit and we go back to spirit.


Namaste

Baile 18-10-2018 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OPVerma
1. QUALIFICATION ; Besides practicing some standard form of yoga to burn negative karma, one must be a noble and virtuous

This is wisdom of the highest order and is indeed #1 on the list. Enlightenment is first and foremost a karmic and human-self evolution journey. For every step on the knowledge path, the spiritual seeker must take three steps on the moral self-development path. There are no so shortcuts here. Moral self-development -- understanding the self and soul -- is key to transforming and releasing karma.

Kioma 19-10-2018 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baile
This is wisdom of the highest order and is indeed #1 on the list. Enlightenment is first and foremost a karmic and human-self evolution journey. For every step on the knowledge path, the spiritual seeker must take three steps on the moral self-development path. There are no so shortcuts here. Moral self-development -- understanding the self and soul -- is key to transforming and releasing karma.

Wise words themselves - which raises an even better point. I don't think the 'goal' is to 'reach the spiritual world' at all - but rather to facilitate the spiritual world reaching the physical world.

Still_Waters 20-10-2018 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstein
There is no 'should' to this adventure.

This *might* be one way to reach the 'Spiritual World' but certainly not the only nor the best way.

To use your analogy about the Harvard professor, how did the first Harvard professors get to be professors if there were no previous Harvard professors?? Who acted as the VISA issuing authority before anyone was already vetted to do so? Clearly they had to do it without prior help.

How many of the great spiritual people had QUALIFICATIONs and VISAs? Seems to me that Buddha for instance spent many years wandering around to various traditions trying to gain entrance until he finally gave up, sat down, and figured it out by himself.

Looking outside is totally counter to spiritual pursuit. The door to the 'Spiritual World' is internal (to yourself).


Looking outside can, however, be useful for getting pointers along the way as there is no point in "re-inventing the wheel" (as the expression goes) but, ultimately, I agree with you completely that "looking outside is totally counter to spiritual pursuit. The door to the Spiritual World is internal (to one's Self)."

Your example with the Buddha is very relevant and insightful for getting this point across.

Shivani Devi 21-10-2018 04:45 AM

What should we do to reach the spiritual world?

Sit down quietly, focus on the breath and slow down our thoughts. If anything arises within, let it all go with peace and love.

If certain mystical visions, lights and 'spiritual experiences' are to be had, let them all go with peace and love too, saying "Neti Neti" (this isn't significant).

*and I would much prefer the shruti texts over the smriti texts any day of the week, Pundit Verma* :wink: :tongue: :D

Knowledge can only take us so far though, because Brahman is unknowable and that is the true Jnana or Gnosis of the Vedas.

The spiritual world is reached through the heart and through love, devotion, surrender and compassion and no matter what faith or creed is involved, that applies.

As for the Spiritual World itself...there are many 'Spiritual Worlds'...'Bhur'...'Bhuvah'...'Swah'...'Jana'...'T apa'...'Kailash'...'Vaikunth'...

I like to associate all those with the etheric astral planes in the Pranamaya Kosha (Astral Body)...a.k.a The Chakras and not with any 'place out there' in our 3D physicality whatsoever.

This is basically what the Gayatri Mantra means.

Maybe the Gods still live among the stars, who knows? (I have read parts of the 21st Century Bhagavad Gita)...but I pretty much stick to my Shaivite roots out of habit now.

OPVerma 21-10-2018 08:33 AM

It is stupidity to hold personal views on science subjects.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker
In my view, to ascend, evolve, any path is fine as long as we endeavour to get to the roots. Choose Bhakti/prayer, meditation or selfless service, as of inclination, it does not matter.

Our choice, zeal, fervour is the key, the Universe does the rest. Automatically.

Peace


Personal views doesn't matter. It is stupidity to hold personal views on science subjects. What is your view on gravity?

If it were automatic, God Krishna would't have to tell it in about two chapters in the battle field.

OPVerma 21-10-2018 09:23 AM

krama mukti
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
What should we do to reach the spiritual world?

Sit down quietly, focus on the breath and slow down our thoughts. If anything arises within, let it all go with peace and love.

If certain mystical visions, lights and 'spiritual experiences' are to be had, let them all go with peace and love too, saying "Neti Neti" (this isn't significant).

*and I would much prefer the shruti texts over the smriti texts any day of the week, Pundit Verma* :wink: :tongue: :D

Knowledge can only take us so far though, because Brahman is unknowable and that is the true Jnana or Gnosis of the Vedas.

The spiritual world is reached through the heart and through love, devotion, surrender and compassion and no matter what faith or creed is involved, that applies.

As for the Spiritual World itself...there are many 'Spiritual Worlds'...'Bhur'...'Bhuvah'...'Swah'...'Jana'...'T apa'...'Kailash'...'Vaikunth'...

I like to associate all those with the etheric astral planes in the Pranamaya Kosha (Astral Body)...a.k.a The Chakras and not with any 'place out there' in our 3D physicality whatsoever.

This is basically what the Gayatri Mantra means.

Maybe the Gods still live among the stars, who knows? (I have read parts of the 21st Century Bhagavad Gita)...but I pretty much stick to my Shaivite roots out of habit now.


Bhagavad Gita rates meditation process of attaining liberation very high. With this process one can reach up to jana tapa and satya or Brahmn loka that are within the material world or this universe. For reaching there you have to leave your breath in a particular auspicious time and call some of your precede-rs to lead you there. one has to wait there Till the end of the Universe (Great god no,1) , when gg1 merges into great god no2 and so on till you reach to the intermediate spiritual world vaikuntha or shivaloka. this gradual process called as krama mukti is also given in bhagavad gita.

however when one prays to gg 1-4, he is allowed trace-passing, and provided with escort to reach to the spiritual world directly.







































gg

Baile 21-10-2018 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kioma
I don't think the 'goal' is to 'reach the spiritual world' at all - but rather to facilitate the spiritual world reaching the physical world.

Spiritual Science would confirm that I think... the idea that cosmic forces are now permeating and spiritualizing the earth/material plane. Material existence is "ghosting" one could say, becoming less dense and more etheric. I'd suggest that's one explanation why humanity as a collective seems to be ungrounded like never before. As the earth sphere etherizes, we do as well.

Baile 21-10-2018 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OPVerma
Personal views doesn't matter. It is stupidity to hold personal views on science subjects.

I replied and gave you the opportunity to dialogue, and add something affirmative, positive and constructive. You instead chose to continue arguing with people while pushing your religion in this rather ugly manner. Seems that's your only interest here. Too bad.

Shivani Devi 21-10-2018 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baile
I replied and gave you the opportuinty to dialogue, and add something affirmative, positive and constructive. You instead chose to continue arguing with people while pushing your religion in this rather ugly manner. Seems that's your only interest here. Too bad.

Thing is Baile, he isn't even 'pushing his religion' just 'pushing his opinion' because I belong to the same religion.

This was the point I was trying to make in my previous post that just went over everybody's head.

Baile 21-10-2018 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Thing is Baile, he isn't even 'pushing his religion' just 'pushing his opinion' because I belong to the same religion.

Okay that was harsh, sorry.

Greenslade 21-10-2018 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OPVerma
WE ON SF DISCUSS VARIOUS SUBJECT and hope to reach to the spiritual world by doing so automatically. It is like hoping to become a Harvard professor just by discussion and without any degree and knowledge. For going to the spiritual world we need preparation and fulfill the following requirements.

Alan Watts said that if we are Spiritual, we are gods playing at being not gods. If there are requirements, who sets them? Are they yours or a non-existence entity/God that sets the rules or do they come from the mind that labels itself spiritual and not from Spirit itself?

Quote:

Originally Posted by OPVerma
1. QUALIFICATION ; Besides practicing some standard form of yoga to burn negative karma, one must be a noble and virtuous person like RAMA. Spiritual World is a classy place and village bums are not admitted there.

So-called 'negative karma' is entirely subjective and is based on victim mentality with underlying tones of revenge. Allegedly we are here to learn the lessons but it seems the people who can teach us the best lessons and therefore Christ Conciousness incur negative karmic wrath. I don'y know where virtue sits in that respect. Tolle said that there is only the Now, the past is memory and the future is anticipation so karma isn't karma. In the original Sanskrit translation 'karma' simply meant 'action', later it was changed to 'cause and effect' and currently it's being confused with kamma-vipaka.


If it wasn't for those 'village bums' (which is judgement and self righteous, and lacking in the virtue of modesty) there would be no 'classy'. Those 'village bums' are village bums because they as Spirit have chosen that for their Spiritual Development, therefore their Paths are Divine Will in action. 'Classy only exists in relationship to 'village bums'.


Quote:

Originally Posted by OPVerma
2. KNOWLEDGE OF THE ROUTE ; Bhagavad Gita describes 8;23-27 Archi route to the spiritual world that requires the knowledge of sun moon and earth's movements and their alignment for reaching to the center of Galaxy and from there to the spiritual world. A diagram and road map is given in the '21st CENTURY BHAGAVAD GITA.

To Spirit everywhere IS and there is no separation, no 'here' nor 'there' and therefore no 'route'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OPVerma
3. ACQUIRING VISA One must regularly pray to the 4Great gods for taking them to the spiritual world and tell family members to utter in ears the mantra given in BG ;7.30 in your ears on the death bed.

As Spirit we already know the way 'Home'.

OPVerma 21-10-2018 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenslade
Alan Watts said that if we are Spiritual, we are gods playing at being not gods. If there are requirements, who sets them? Are they yours or a non-existence entity/God that sets the rules or do they come from the mind that labels itself spiritual and not from Spirit itself?

So-called 'negative karma' is entirely subjective and is based on victim mentality with underlying tones of revenge. Allegedly we are here to learn the lessons but it seems the people who can teach us the best lessons and therefore Christ Conciousness incur negative karmic wrath. I don'y know where virtue sits in that respect. Tolle said that there is only the Now, the past is memory and the future is anticipation so karma isn't karma. In the original Sanskrit translation 'karma' simply meant 'action', later it was changed to 'cause and effect' and currently it's being confused with kamma-vipaka.


If it wasn't for those 'village bums' (which is judgement and self righteous, and lacking in the virtue of modesty) there would be no 'classy'. Those 'village bums' are village bums because they as Spirit have chosen that for their Spiritual Development, therefore their Paths are Divine Will in action. 'Classy only exists in relationship to 'village bums'.


To Spirit everywhere IS and there is no separation, no 'here' nor 'there' and therefore no 'route'.

As Spirit we already know the way 'Home'.



if you know the way to home then tell us the route .

in bg, krishna has referred 'village bums' as 'wicked'. i think the word used by me is modest.

Greenslade 21-10-2018 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OPVerma
if you know the way to home then tell us the route .

in bg, krishna has referred 'village bums' as 'wicked'. i think the word used by me is modest.

Turn left at Mars, straight on past Alpha Centauri then have a comfort break in Lyra, tell them I sent you and you'll get a free coffee. Or you could come to the realisation that you're already Home and you've never been anywhere else. As a consolation prize you can stop thinking your not at Home.


Isn't modest judgement a contradiction in terms?

Kioma 21-10-2018 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baile
Spiritual Science would confirm that I think... the idea that cosmic forces are now permeating and spiritualizing the earth/material plane. Material existence is "ghosting" one could say, becoming less dense and more etheric. I'd suggest that's one explanation why humanity as a collective seems to be ungrounded like never before. As the earth sphere etherizes, we do as well.

When I say 'bring the spiritual world to the physical world' what I am pointing at is how the physical world would benefit from applying spiritual values and principles. IMO, sitting in meditation all day just for the bliss buzz is so much spiritual masturbation. It's real value is when one brings back the clarity, the peace, and the insights to share with the rest of the world.

Personally, I also feel the world was always this 'ungrounded', but because of the internet and other multi-media that has spanned the globe, humanity is truly meeting itself for the first time - and it isn't pretty. This has made our current unrest and constant controversy an inevitability.

Baile 21-10-2018 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kioma
Personally, I also feel the world was always this 'ungrounded', but because of the internet and other multi-media that has spanned the globe, humanity is truly meeting itself for the first time - and it isn't pretty.

I don't think it's a stretch to say people are not anywhere near as grounded or rooted like they were 50, 100 years ago. That's not even arguable IMO: people used to work one job their entire lives; had one family; many if not most lived and died in the same town they were born in.

The internet absolutely has contributed. Information overload, it's affecting peoples' minds and will and hope. People drift in life now, both physically and intellectually. They go from job to job, relationship to relationship; they're distracted by celebrity and dreams of fame; they've lost the ability to penetrate into a question with their anayltical thinking and common sense; they can't tell the difference between truth and reality, versus lies and YouTube conspiracy videos.

And of course the internet is not "to blame"; it's a symptom and just one manifestation of the larger societal illness. Illness isn't the best word either, this seems to be part of some great evolutionary event and transition for the human collective.

Still_Waters 21-10-2018 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kioma
When I say 'bring the spiritual world to the physical world' what I am pointing at is how the physical world would benefit from applying spiritual values and principles. IMO, sitting in meditation all day just for the bliss buzz is so much spiritual masturbation. It's real value is when one brings back the clarity, the peace, and the insights to share with the rest of the world.

Personally, I also feel the world was always this 'ungrounded', but because of the internet and other multi-media that has spanned the globe, humanity is truly meeting itself for the first time - and it isn't pretty. This has made our current unrest and constant controversy an inevitability.


You seem to be assuming that one who is sitting in meditation is not communicating or sharing with the rest of the world in some manner. Depending on the entity, that may or may not be true.

Kioma 21-10-2018 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baile
I don't think it's a stretch to say people are not anywhere near as grounded or rooted like they were 50, 100 years ago. That's not even arguable IMO: people used to work one job their entire lives; had one family; many if not most lived and died in the same town they were born in.

Grounded, or simply entrenched? 'Rooted' certainly applies.

Just what does 'grounded' mean to you? To me, it is the cultivation of a mental space centered on one's earthly connection, one's physical incarnation. It's NOT just about avoiding change, or obtaining security, or maintaining some sort of nostalgia.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Baile
The internet absolutely has contributed. Information overload, it's affecting peoples' minds and will and hope. People drift in life now, both physically and intellectually. They go from job to job, relationship to relationship; they're distracted by celebrity and dreams of fame; they've lost the ability to penetrate into a question with their anayltical thinking and common sense; they can't tell the difference between truth and reality, versus lies and YouTube conspiracy videos.

Well, yes and no, but I have to ask - how are you feeling, yourself?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baile
And of course the internet is not "to blame"; it's a symptom and just one manifestation of the larger societal illness. Illness isn't the best word either, this seems to be part of some great evolutionary event and transition for the human collective.

Well, we agree there, for the most part. The internet is just a communication medium. What is put on the medium is going to be a combination of what exists, and what influential parties want to appear to exist. Both are very revealling, properly viewed.

Kioma 21-10-2018 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still_Waters
You seem to be assuming that one who is sitting in meditation is not communicating or sharing with the rest of the world in some manner. Depending on the entity, that may or may not be true.

Yes, it may or may not be true.


And...?

Shivani Devi 22-10-2018 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still_Waters
You seem to be assuming that one who is sitting in meditation is not communicating or sharing with the rest of the world in some manner. Depending on the entity, that may or may not be true.

I hear this a lot! People saying that meditation, sadhana and spiritual work on oneself is being totally selfish and self-centred because the person is not helping anybody else by doing that...completely forgetting/avoiding the fact that unless they can help themselves, they will be of absolutely no use to another whatsoever!...then, I just have to keep reminding myself mentally over and over that this is Kali Yuga and every prediction made by the scriptures thousands of years ago is finally coming to fruition before my very eyes...so why should I be shocked, when all of these 'false judgments' are merely symptomatic of Kali Yuga.

Baile 22-10-2018 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kioma
Well, yes and no, but I have to ask - how are you feeling, yourself?

C'mon now, one could toss a comment like that into any discussion taking place on this forum. This isn't about me. We're exploring observations about society in general, and tendencies in people in general. Yes, I myself am doing just fine, but that doesn't invalidate any of the points I was making.

Still_Waters 22-10-2018 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
I hear this a lot! People saying that meditation, sadhana and spiritual work on oneself is being totally selfish and self-centred because the person is not helping anybody else by doing that...completely forgetting/avoiding the fact that unless they can help themselves, they will be of absolutely no use to another whatsoever!...then, I just have to keep reminding myself mentally over and over that this is Kali Yuga and every prediction made by the scriptures thousands of years ago is finally coming to fruition before my very eyes...so why should I be shocked, when all of these 'false judgments' are merely symptomatic of Kali Yuga.


Regarding helping from afar during meditation, I have a book given to me years ago by a Sri Lankan Buddhist friend. It's called "The Buddha and His Teachings" and is the same book that they use at the local Burmese Buddhist monastery except that mine is in English for obvious reasons.

There is a chapter on the Buddha's "daily routine". It says that the Buddha attains the Ecstasy of Great Compassion each morning from 5 to 6 AM.

"At this early hour He surveys the whole world with His Buddha-Eye to see whether He could be of service to any. The virtuous and those that need His help appear vivid before Him though they may live at a remote distance. Out of compassion for them, he goes of His own accord and renders necessary spiritual assistance."

The book does not elaborate on how this is done.

P.S. With this response, I am also addressing Kioma's question. :smile:

Gem 22-10-2018 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
What should we do to reach the spiritual world?

Sit down quietly, focus on the breath and slow down our thoughts. If anything arises within, let it all go with peace and love.



That's the ticket :smile:

Gem 22-10-2018 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kioma
When I say 'bring the spiritual world to the physical world' what I am pointing at is how the physical world would benefit from applying spiritual values and principles. IMO, sitting in meditation all day just for the bliss buzz is so much spiritual masturbation. It's real value is when one brings back the clarity, the peace, and the insights to share with the rest of the world.



All day meditation isn't all that blissful, but the opening of loving kindness as consequence to purification in dedicated meditation radiates in the world through every thought, word and action.


Quote:

Personally, I also feel the world was always this 'ungrounded', but because of the internet and other multi-media that has spanned the globe, humanity is truly meeting itself for the first time - and it isn't pretty. This has made our current unrest and constant controversy an inevitability.

Shivani Devi 23-10-2018 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still_Waters
Regarding helping from afar during meditation, I have a book given to me years ago by a Sri Lankan Buddhist friend. It's called "The Buddha and His Teachings" and is the same book that they use at the local Burmese Buddhist monastery except that mine is in English for obvious reasons.

There is a chapter on the Buddha's "daily routine". It says that the Buddha attains the Ecstasy of Great Compassion each morning from 5 to 6 AM.

"At this early hour He surveys the whole world with His Buddha-Eye to see whether He could be of service to any. The virtuous and those that need His help appear vivid before Him though they may live at a remote distance. Out of compassion for them, he goes of His own accord and renders necessary spiritual assistance."

The book does not elaborate on how this is done.

P.S. With this response, I am also addressing Kioma's question. :smile:

I guess that my whole point is, why can't other people just mind their own "spiritual business?"

What difference does it REALLY make anyway, if another says "meditating is selfish?" What difference would it make if the whole world disagreed with me?

This is the thing I think about the most...The thing that occupies my mind and thoughts for the greatest period of time...

Who is to say their way is right, or the only way? Yet, this is what people will always say regardless of also preaching the exact opposite with their very next breath.

So, even if I am "selfish" according to definition given by another person, what is wrong or so bad about that?, when I personally can see absolutely nothing wrong with it?...and in my "perceptual universe" you know, the one that I create and nobody ELSE creates it for me...What I think and what I believe are the ONLY things that matter..

So, they will go on to say "it is not spiritual to be selfish" and I say " you always tell me to be myself....What if being selfish, is me just being myself?" There is never any answer for that one...and I figure that certain spiritual people can get away with being and doing things that are "not spiritual" according to "spiritual people" and totally rip up labels and stereotypes if they are fully prepared to live with the consequences and be happy about that.

"Being myself" causes isolation and loneliness, because other's emotional needs are not being met...and I am not talking about love here, but every OTHER need besides that one..and I won't put myself in the position to be willingly duped or preached to...So I don't have any friends...this is the "cost" of being myself...and I pay it gladly and willingly...So now, I have more freedom to do whatever I WANT to do, without somebody saying "if you value our friendship, you wouldn't do that" and holding the relationship over my head as a bribe...because the only thing that gets said AFTER that is " no, I do not value your friendship, so I can do whatever I like now...cya".

Gem 23-10-2018 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
I guess that my whole point is, why can't other people just mind their own "spiritual business?"

What difference does it REALLY make anyway, if another says "meditating is selfish?" What difference would it make if the whole world disagreed with me?



Just means they are all wrong :D


Quote:

This is the thing I think about the most...The thing that occupies my mind and thoughts for the greatest period of time...

Who is to say their way is right, or the only way? Yet, this is what people will always say regardless of also preaching the exact opposite with their very next breath.

So, even if I am "selfish" according to definition given by another person, what is wrong or so bad about that?, when I personally can see absolutely nothing wrong with it?...and in my "perceptual universe" you know, the one that I create and nobody ELSE creates it for me...What I think and what I believe are the ONLY things that matter..

So, they will go on to say "it is not spiritual to be selfish" and I say " you always tell me to be myself....What if being selfish, is me just being myself?" There is never any answer for that one...and I figure that certain spiritual people can get away with being and doing things that are "not spiritual" according to "spiritual people" and totally rip up labels and stereotypes if they are fully prepared to live with the consequences and be happy about that.


Sure, you aren't under any obligation.


Quote:

"Being myself" causes isolation and loneliness, because other's emotional needs are not being met...and I am not talking about love here, but every OTHER need besides that one..and I won't put myself in the position to be willingly duped or preached to...So I don't have any friends...this is the "cost" of being myself...and I pay it gladly and willingly...So now, I have more freedom to do whatever I WANT to do, without somebody saying "if you value our friendship, you wouldn't do that" and holding the relationship over my head as a bribe...because the only thing that gets said AFTER that is " no, I do not value your friendship, so I can do whatever I like now...cya".

Shivani Devi 23-10-2018 01:47 AM

I'll give you all another example of this...It happened just the other day.

I was in the Hindu forum, discussing verses from the Upanishads...I figured I was pretty "safe" there, doing that.

What happened next, was another member coming into it and discussing comparative verses from The Bible...Jesus said this...Jesus said that...

With that, I made comment referencing the name of the sub forum where the discussion was taking place...I asked if he/she knew anything about the Upanishads to give worthwhile contribution to the discussion at hand...and with that, I was given the label of being "religiously intolerant" so, I'll just add that to the label of being "selfish" and a million other clothes that other people get me to try on but does not fit.

To a lesser willed/weak willed individual, I can see that a constant bombardment of this could cause depression to the point of suicide, if they took it all personally and took it on board...yet, so would protracted isolation and loneliness, but that was a totally conscious choice for me, because I would not be able to live with myself otherwise and this illustrates that I am different to the majority of human beings who live on this Earth.

People do not want love...they want to be noticed, acknowledged, appreciated, respected, obeyed, agreed with, venerated... etc etc

While ever all those things remain a "priority" they will NEVER reach Enlightenment...whilever their backside points to the ground and thankfully, the universe continues to remove all of my distractions (nosy significant others) so that I can do what I came here to do, totally uninterrupted.

Shivani Devi 23-10-2018 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gem
Sure, you aren't under any obligation.

Yes...this is what my brother keeps saying to me as well...that the reason why I am like this, is because I have absolutely no obligations to anybody or anything...and I have worked very hard to be able to put myself in that position and still exist within it....where the "average person" would have gone totally insane ages ago.

This is what "separates" me from the rest of humanity despite having the same Divine consciousness within.

Shivani Devi 23-10-2018 04:41 AM

One day...One sweet Day, I am going to write a "Literal Dictionary".

I already have ideas for a few entries and I am working on it:

Selfish: "The label given to another when one's own personal and individual needs are not being fully met by them".

Religious Intolerance: "The act of not fully agreeing with and adopting another's religious beliefs because they say so".

Racism: 'The act of speaking out against changes to an established culture, which is being forced upon them by another culture to which they do not belong".

Racist: "The label given to another who believes that skin colour should have NO bearing upon judicial proceedings once the law has been broken".

I could go on...and this will be a fun exercise.

Not being obliged to anybody and not caring what anybody else has to think or say makes me a candidate for the perfect social commentator. =)

Shivani Devi 23-10-2018 06:23 AM

I seem to be on a roll with this...My Higher Self decided to chime in...

"The social order consists of those with an agenda, using "social taboos" to guilt trip others into full compliance by playing upon their most personal and sacred value systems.

This is poisoning the well of humanity, because "moral judgments" are always deemed to be absolute, irrespective of those they are leveled against, so the cognitive bias becomes imprinted from the very start.

The reason why you have no friends, is because you get to see all of this going on , where many others either can't see it, or who can but prefer "not to know" because it makes their existence so much easier if they just deny it."

ADDITIONAL..

My physical existence spans two generations and I can see the changes in social values during that time...

Before, it was "dishonesty" and "criminal activity" and "inconsideration/disrespect" and "laziness".

Now, it is "selfishness" and "discrimination" and "intolerance" ...

That's enough from me on that subject.

Still_Waters 23-10-2018 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
I guess that my whole point is, why can't other people just mind their own "spiritual business?"

What difference does it REALLY make anyway, if another says "meditating is selfish?" What difference would it make if the whole world disagreed with me?

This is the thing I think about the most...The thing that occupies my mind and thoughts for the greatest period of time...

Who is to say their way is right, or the only way? Yet, this is what people will always say regardless of also preaching the exact opposite with their very next breath.

So, even if I am "selfish" according to definition given by another person, what is wrong or so bad about that?, when I personally can see absolutely nothing wrong with it?...and in my "perceptual universe" you know, the one that I create and nobody ELSE creates it for me...What I think and what I believe are the ONLY things that matter..

So, they will go on to say "it is not spiritual to be selfish" and I say " you always tell me to be myself....What if being selfish, is me just being myself?" There is never any answer for that one...and I figure that certain spiritual people can get away with being and doing things that are "not spiritual" according to "spiritual people" and totally rip up labels and stereotypes if they are fully prepared to live with the consequences and be happy about that.

"Being myself" causes isolation and loneliness, because other's emotional needs are not being met...and I am not talking about love here, but every OTHER need besides that one..and I won't put myself in the position to be willingly duped or preached to...So I don't have any friends...this is the "cost" of being myself...and I pay it gladly and willingly...So now, I have more freedom to do whatever I WANT to do, without somebody saying "if you value our friendship, you wouldn't do that" and holding the relationship over my head as a bribe...because the only thing that gets said AFTER that is " no, I do not value your friendship, so I can do whatever I like now...cya".


Well put.

All roads lead to the same goal, so one should not criticize the path another has chosen (unless some one is being harmed in the process).

Well put.

running 23-10-2018 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still_Waters
Well put.

All roads lead to the same goal, so one should not criticize the path another has chosen (unless some one is being harmed in the process).

Well put.


x2..... agree

wstein 24-10-2018 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still_Waters
All roads lead to the same goal, so one should not criticize the path another has chosen (unless some one is being harmed in the process).

There is never a reason to criticize another's path.
Depending on your path, there might be cause to try to interfere with their actions.

hallow 24-10-2018 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
I guess that my whole point is, why can't other people just mind their own "spiritual business?"

What difference does it REALLY make anyway, if another says "meditating is selfish?" What difference would it make if the whole world disagreed with me?

This is the thing I think about the most...The thing that occupies my mind and thoughts for the greatest period of time...

Who is to say their way is right, or the only way? Yet, this is what people will always say regardless of also preaching the exact opposite with their very next breath.

So, even if I am "selfish" according to definition given by another person, what is wrong or so bad about that?, when I personally can see absolutely nothing wrong with it?...and in my "perceptual universe" you know, the one that I create and nobody ELSE creates it for me...What I think and what I believe are the ONLY things that matter..

So, they will go on to say "it is not spiritual to be selfish" and I say " you always tell me to be myself....What if being selfish, is me just being myself?" There is never any answer for that one...and I figure that certain spiritual people can get away with being and doing things that are "not spiritual" according to "spiritual people" and totally rip up labels and stereotypes if they are fully prepared to live with the consequences and be happy about that.

"Being myself" causes isolation and loneliness, because other's emotional needs are not being met...and I am not talking about love here, but every OTHER need besides that one..and I won't put myself in the position to be willingly duped or preached to...So I don't have any friends...this is the "cost" of being myself...and I pay it gladly and willingly...So now, I have more freedom to do whatever I WANT to do, without somebody saying "if you value our friendship, you wouldn't do that" and holding the relationship over my head as a bribe...because the only thing that gets said AFTER that is " no, I do not value your friendship, so I can do whatever I like now...cya".

on being yourself, like you I live a more solitary life then most, I work nights by myself, I don't any real friends. I am happily married and she's the only friend I really need. We feel the same about each other. I set my life up this way as well. But it's not out of being cold to world and I like the freedom to not feel the need to shut myself out to anyone or anything. I don't feel obligated to do anything either. I do things because I want to. I don't feel obligated to turn others away just because I can. Life can be tough, people can mean and judgemental. That doesn't mean I am going to be. 1 one of things I feel obligated to do is to learn from others mistakes. Maybe because I want to feel obligated to do that.


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