Accepting the role of Guardians of the natural world and our species evolution.
 

hello all.

taking the title of the thread and simply adding ---if we don't we won't--gives us a proposition to discuss.

Any thoughts. Is it really that simple?

cheers.

What is your vision of accepting the role of Guardians of the natural world and our species evolution. It seems like a very broad question.

Hello WldHairedWoman.

The question kind of contained in the OP is

Unless we accept the role of Guardians of the natural world can our species evolve?---evolution first depending upon continuing to exist.

or

can a species which consistently depletes/destroys that upon which it depends survive ?

sthg along those lines.

the logical answer seems --to me-- to be No.

the notion that our species has some sort of ability to completely transform the nature of our existence into some other form of being which doiesnt need to give a toss about such destruction seems massively arrogant.

my own feeling is that our continuing existence and therefore possible evolution requires us to find/rediscover and recognise our place as part of the interconnected whole of the process of existence.

in "traditional" evolutionary changes such changes occur as a result of some often very small numbers of a species having a particular ability/mutation which allows them to better survive what may be novel circumstances of one sort or another. Such evoltion is like a consequence. some rather fanciful illustration of this is included in the narrative of the film "water world", when--if I remember correctly, the main character shows signs of developing webs between fingers and toes.
However. it seems entirely possible to me that given sufficient will power and application some species may have a latent ability to change thier behaviour patterns upon wholescale recognition that such behaviour patterns are themselves threatening their survival.
this would be like a conscious evolution for that species--and why not?

we have our own bodies which give us some idea and practice of this--if we choose to screw up our own bodies to the point of non function then we are stuffed. Technical fixes may help for a while just as they will re our depletion and destruction of the natural world, but ultimately there is no further "solution."

Some existing and some earlier cultures know/knew of this inextricable interdependence--not necessarily by means of what we now call scientific knowledge but as a result of thoughtful realisation of the multitude of the interconnections and interdependence.

cheers for now.

one problem is, that those who actually have the money and power to make the choices as to how to relate to this world in any big way, also have this 'gut feeling' that they are immune to any semblance of consequences to their own activities. Even in this world, such rarely face any real sanction for things done wrong ( except sometimes they have to pay out some of their money), but even when they do it seems like often their punishment is more like a summer camp for children than anything else.

Such people are not going to be interested in anything beyond what they can get for themselves in the short term... certainly not in the continuing survival of the species. So becoming stewards isn't going to happen unless the rest of us can somehow ignore the fact they have money and quit accepting it for services rendered when they offer it in the same way we'd find it offensive to eat dung.

As well some of the realities of the afterlife they have gotten for themselves give them more reasons to believe they can get away with ruining this habitat unscathed... of course they don't even see it as 'ruination' but as 'improvement' so there isn't even anything to get away with...

anyway about this reality that none of us really likes god said:

[II Chronicles 7:14]

and if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

sadly, simply trying to fix our reality yet again by becoming stewards for a change doesn't qualify as turning from our wicked ways, being just another attempt to try to make our reality be what we want it it be without any real understanding of what it already is... But if we do somehow turn and follow god... everything will be made well again without us even having to try... we'll even get to go 'home'.

Hello FallingLeaves.

I share much of your assessment regarding the great hurdles facing our--and other--species in the now near future.

Yet am heartened in the knowledge that a great majority of unknown compassioinates have thus far managed to keep the planet show on some sort of admittedly rocky and perilous road in spite of the actions and behaviour of a relative handful of unscrupulous/lost/disturbed/ misfits intent on running the show as their own isolated self affirmation/self identity exercise.

However, the circumstances are changing as choices diminish and consequences become unmanageable--so we all approach crisis regardless.

Even in so called Hobsons choice their remains a choice. Self destruct or change.

Scary? Change is scary and the run up to the inevitable need for it extremely alarming--as we daily discover.

And yet, and yet----- xx

not knowing what is coming next is one of the scariest things for us. And yet our response to knowing that is what stagnates us.

I think whatever is coming next could be extremely uncomfortable... but... personally I think it will work out ok in the end. We may not LIKE it, but it will work out ok in the end.

hello Aldous.

thanks for the link regarding biography etc of Friedrich Wohler.

Not having sufficient scientific knowledge myself which might enable a better understanding of his contribution to science--and particularly to the topic of our discussion here--wondered if you would be able to share your own thoughts?

I can see that Friedrich Wohlers thoughts/work had an influence upon the questioning of "vitalism".

cheers.

hello FallingLeaves.

I agree with you my friend.

"Like" and "Benefit" are different kettles of fish.--as I recall from childhood daily doses of cod liver oil--and much since.

Life can often seem as being a precarious uncertaiinty with the result that the short term local "certainties"? within which we seem to be relatively safely accustomed and insulated as best we seem able-- physically, emotionally and psychologically,--easily become our bolt holes--but at the same time can also become holes in the sand in which we bury our heads. Not necessarily refusing to see beyond but in that situation not properly capable of doing so. (imo,-and experience)
Added to which a whole industry of endeavour of varying kind has developed dependent upon more or less maintaining this situation.
cheers.

hi wearunity

yeah... i've been saying for a long time that if we had been left unfettered in our desire to make things safe & comfortable, along with various other desires we have for attitudes we like and gravitate to (such as the industry you were talking about but also much much more), we would have bound ourselves and each other so tightly in mental chains we'd never have gotten out. There would basically be no freedom left. No life. And that it seems to me is what the opening chapters of the bible are talking about...

the fact that we can't have things the way we want them to be no matter how hard we try (we were kicked out of 'eden' and the 'easy' path back was made untraversable) is more a testament to someone trying to keep us from this kind of a 'death' than anything else...

I found it a real eye-opener to remember various things that happened, with that thought in mind. To me, using our gravitation toward 'death' and the opposing side that doesn't want that as the 'why' of the current reality has great explanatory power. But mostly people fall for the more prevalent and infinitely more fun 'but that isn't the way it should be so it either didn't happen that way or we should fix it to be right or we should be mad at god for not giving us the things we want (stick out tongue here) or _____ [fill in the blank with your favorite fun attitude to have when confronted with things you don't like]'.

Of course the fact that people would universally choose some fun thing like that over getting any semblance of the 'point' to what is going on had to be one of the many things whoever is running this place had to take into account...