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-   -   What are the consecuences of suicide? (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=122962)

hesitant_man 28-05-2018 07:37 PM

What are the consecuences of suicide?
 
First of all, I just ask this question just to know it, not for planing anything like this.

I have thought about several cases which could apply:

1. One have a normal life and, for some reason, decides to take this decision.

2. One have some chronical disease.

3. One have some kind of disability.

4. One sacrifice himself to save others.

5. One decides to take bad habits to "speed up" the dying process.

I would like to apologise if this question has offended to anyone.

Dargor 28-05-2018 07:53 PM

The worst thing that could happen is that you go to hell for the rest of eternity (according to some). Something less cruel but still harsh is that you possibly get reincarnated and have to experience the same life again in order to overcome your struggles. If not, I suspect you will become an earthbound ghost and won't be allowed into Paradise for p#ssing off your guides, higher self, and/or whatever forced you into this miserable life that made you commit suicide. But maybe if you're lucky you will be pardoned if the cause of your suicide was any of the more legit and noble reasons you mentioned.

Either way, most likely nothing good will happen so I wouldn't recommend anyone to give it a go unless you have a good excuse that no one in the afterlife would get mad.

innerlight 28-05-2018 07:55 PM

None of us really knows for sure, because we are all still living. So no answer is 100%. In my most humble opinion, I would say, a person would end up in a state of low vibration. Because if you are open to the idea of suicide, even if it's to end illness, physically or not, you are in such a state where you are so down from it, you are giving up so to speak. Well, that is a crass term to bluntly say "giving up" because I know it is more than that.

In that state where the turmoil is so deep, and so strong, it's going to leave a mark on you, even after you pass. Putting you in a low vibration. I would not be surprised if many that do, that end up up taking them selves, have a higher chance of becoming earth bound, and just wandering around for a time, until they regain themselves.

Burntfruit 28-05-2018 11:02 PM

In the book Nosso Lar, the main character is deemed to be a suicide.

It was not a conventional suicide, he just drank a lot and ate a lot of rich foods.

So with that criteria, many people would be suicides - smokers, drinkers, fast food eaters.

So in his afterlife, he ended up in a dark swamp, but eventually, he was rescued and sent to the spirit colony where he lived as normal.

My personal opinion is that suicide does not damn you in any way.

Tobi 28-05-2018 11:26 PM

Most natural deaths create a state of what's called "low vibration". I don't think we should be afraid of that or be horrified by it when it happens. Even a little bit of illness naturally lowers "vibrations". That's usually lifted on leaving the body and the physical world and entering into the new state ....but not always. It depends how things are clung to, identified with. Some people identify completely with certain passing states of being, then it can take a little while before those bonds are let go of. It depends. Those with a more free spirit are just glad to get out and away from the illness and raise up again as soon as they do.

But with suicide, it's a bit of a different scenario. More pain may be taken with the Soul at passing. A psychological pain and concept of great suffering. Some also hope death means annihilation and it's a big shock when they find that it isn't; that they are just the same as they were before they took the life out of their body. That must be a very shocking and disappointing experience.

I do feel that we create to some extent what we encounter on the other side. We have to be open to what we receive or else we wouldn't be able to experience it -even if it was there! But I also do feel that when that troubled Soul starts to get glimpses through to a larger reality, they will also see that there is no harsh judgement except their own, and there are loving Souls there (if they can perceive them through their own barriers!)

Tobi 28-05-2018 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burntfruit

It was not a conventional suicide, he just drank a lot and ate a lot of rich foods.

So with that criteria, many people would be suicides - smokers, drinkers, fast food eaters.





....hang gliders, snow boarders, mountain climbers, explorers, people who have to work jobs under stress, people who have butter on their toast, anyone who drives a car in busy traffic, anyone who eats sugar...etc etc....the list goes on, and not everyone who does these things, or worse, smokes a cigar every night! is going to find themselves in a mud swamp in the next world.

All choices which could be detrimental and cause death of the body. But suicide? I always thought that part of Nosso Lar was a little heavy-handed.

o0A0o 28-05-2018 11:53 PM

FWIW and just something to consider. I got this from my wife's angels. She channeled several angels among other guides. They said when you commit suicide you are placed in a sort of hold "waiting for your destiny to catch up with you." You have things in the works. Suicide is usually aborting your plans. In a practical sense if we choose a life and its potential lessons we have the ability to bail out. Living typically includes investing in a future whether consciously of not. Every step of the way we have built a life and future in which that life is to live. While living we are also building towards existence after this life's death. We have plans to have learned certain things and anticipate growth from the experiences. We have timed things to coincide. When we choose to leave "prematurely" there are things already in the works in which we anticipated leaving here having lived through. We take things experienced with us and some of those are not yet ready so we must wait for them as a consequence of suicide.

linen53 29-05-2018 12:03 AM

Well, I commit suicide in my last life and I do remember what happened afterwards. I commit suicide because I was a virgin who was sexually violated. It was complicated. I had an overbearing father who was looking to marry me off and if it was found out I was not a virgin all hell would have broke lose. I was very terrified of my father's wrath. So I commit suicide.

I'm surprised you did not include those who have been hurt in some way and find suicide the only way out.

Anyway, I wrote the following in another post recently about my suicide and what happened afterwards.

There was no hell, no judgement other than me judging myself. There was nothing but support and understanding.

Anyway here's what I wrote.

I commit suicide in my last life. I remember having my life review and being very disappointed in myself. I was so shameful. I wanted to go somewhere to think. I just couldn't seem to grow spiritually beyond a certain point. Many lifetimes of distractions in some form or another.

So several guides/angels took me to a gray planet. We passed through space passing planets and even a group of people floating in space engaged in group sex

Once we got to the gray planet I was directed to what looked like a huge bubble. The surrounding terrain was gray and flat with no vegetation or other landmarks. I could see an oasis inside the bubble with trees, a cottage and a horse next to the house.

I walked in the bubble and was amongst the oasis setting. This bubble was like a hologram (Star Trek). I could go for miles and miles once inside the bubble. But once I was inside, I couldn't go out of the bubble. I was in this bubble for quite a long time.

There were residents who lived on the gray planet who would come and watch me. I called them the 'murmurers'. They wore plain robes with sandaled feet and all they did was murmur (gossip) amongst themselves. They irritated me to no end. Eventually they would go away (murmuring). But every so often they would be back.

While I was in this bubble I took walks, rode the horse, there were orchards, streams, meadows, just about everything you would expect in the setting. I would use the cottage when I needed privacy from the murmurers or just to take a nap. I don't think there was night there.

As I said I was there for a very long time.....thinking. And when I had thought it all out, a Being appeared and took me out of the bubble (long story short).

I went before a 'council' and told them what I wanted to accomplish in this lifetime and how I wanted to accomplish it. It was pretty ladened with some bad stuff. And they truly tried to discourage me. But I was adamant. And so I am here.

Oh, I also remember my soul coming back to this plane. I was falling. Falling. Falling. I was excited and thinking of what I would accomplish in this lifetime and all the stuff that would happen to me and how that would occur. I was positive that this time I would get past my stumbling block. All the while falling.

As I fell further it went from bright to dim. And dimmer and dimmer. And I remember taking note of that. And as things became dimmer I felt myself further away from the Source of Light. And as I was further away from the Source I began to have doubts as to my life-plan. And then everything went black.

There are many, many, many, many planes of existence on the other side, which one may term 'heaven'. All of them are different and are at a different vibration. Where one goes when they leave the body depends on their own individual vibration, i.e., where they are spiritually. And also where in their subconscious, they term 'heaven' as being.

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...d.php?t=122922

Tobi 29-05-2018 12:17 AM

Bless you linen. I was very moved, reading that. Thank you for sharing such a deep thing . Hugs.

innerlight 29-05-2018 01:23 PM

Wow!! What a story linen. A story, no doubt that will be with you for the remainder of your life. I'm sure we've all been in a place like that within this life, where we just want to be left alone and not bothered for the rest of eternity. Glad to hear you were able to find what you were looking for in that place, and are able to apply those teachings to this life.





Quote:

Originally Posted by Burntfruit
In the book Nosso Lar, the main character is deemed to be a suicide.

It was not a conventional suicide, he just drank a lot and ate a lot of rich foods.

So with that criteria, many people would be suicides - smokers, drinkers, fast food eaters.

So in his afterlife, he ended up in a dark swamp, but eventually, he was rescued and sent to the spirit colony where he lived as normal.

My personal opinion is that suicide does not damn you in any way.





I think when it comes to it, it all still revolves around the emotional state one is in, within their lives, especially at their time of passing.



While it may seem like a small "innocent" thing, a lot of times, it actually is masking something more. Such as a person who is addicted to something, or become a constant drinker, they are more than likely using it to escape the realities of their life and world all around them. In a way there is a void within them, and they are using stuff whether it's food/drink/expensive stuff to try and fill that void.

If one is in that state when they pass, they will still be stuck in that state when they pass. Which, would be akin to hell. And is probably where the idea of being in hell for all eternity come from. It's not forever. It's just, until they wake up from it and leave that state. Upon passing, it is much harder to do so. As you are in a plane that is more emotional/mental than here in the physical. So it will affect you more than it would here.


Most of that turmoil in the realms beyond this one, is self judgement. Fear of being judged. Feeling like a failure, and consumed by it. Which does not help with clearing themselves of their own baggage.

linen53 29-05-2018 03:41 PM

Have you ever heard of the artist Thomas Kinkade inner? He paints quaint scenes often with a cottage nestled in it. I believe he is depicting our 'cottage' experiences. I think many have that kind of experience for one reason or another.

Yep! I made it through my tribulations in this life and finally got past those nasty stumbling blocks. It was tough but I made it.

Starman 29-05-2018 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hesitant_man
First of all, I just ask this question just to know it, not for planing anything like this.

I have thought about several cases which could apply:

1. One have a normal life and, for some reason, decides to take this decision.

2. One have some chronical disease.

3. One have some kind of disability.

4. One sacrifice himself to save others.

5. One decides to take bad habits to "speed up" the dying process.

I would like to apologise if this question has offended to anyone.


I think it depends on our state of consciousness, what is in our mind, at the time of physical death.
If a person is trying to escape a particular feeling or situation by ending their physical existence they
most likely will have a different experience than a person who sacrifices their life to save others.
Both are considered suicide, although one is more altruistic.

A great philosopher, Socrates, was sentenced to death, and at that time in Athens the death sentence
was carried out by the person dinking poison; essentially committing suicide. Suicide used to be an
acceptable practice sanctioned by the courts, and even today suicide is considered acceptable, although
less than in the past, by some in Japan, i.e. hari-kari or seppuka, a form of ritual suicide dealing with honor.

Suicide is viewed differently around the world, dependant on the dominant religious beliefs in a particular society.
An while people in wealthy nations, like the U.S., Switzerland, Japan, etc., live longer than people in poorer
nations, people in wealthier nations generally commit suicide more than people in poorer nations. Which in my
opinion has something to do with being spoiled by creature comforts.

Personally, I do not think the same thing happens to everyone in the afterlife who dies the same way.
There is great diversity here on earth and beyond. Do you think everyone who is murdered experiences
the same thing in the afterlife?

A person who takes their life for medical reasons is often assisted by a doctor, as assisted suicide is legal
in many states in the U.S. Dr. Jack Kevorkian, M.D. was famous for doing this. There are books, like the book,
“Final Exit,” that instructs people how to efficiently take their life. Because some who attempt suicide end up
causing, and living with, physical or mental damage from a botched suicide. Having worked in the medical field
I have seen this many times.

I do not advocate suicide but I do believe that in spite of perceived free-will, the universe, God if you will,
knows what we are going to do before we even think of doing it. According to the Christian Bible Jesus knew
Judas was going to betray him even before Judas knew he would betray him. He also knew Peter would
deny him, before Peter knew, according to the Bible.

I believe in karma and reincarnation, and that people are born here on earth for a certain purpose, and they
reincarnate because they have unfinished business; they have to balance the scales. I base this belief on
me having witnessed Past-Life Regression therapy sessions (Transpersonal Psychology), having had out-of-body
experiences myself, and embracing our physical body as a part of nature, and nature recycles everything.

Imzadi 29-05-2018 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hesitant_man
First of all, I just ask this question just to know it, not for planing anything like this.

I have thought about several cases which could apply:

1. One have a normal life and, for some reason, decides to take this decision.

2. One have some chronical disease.

3. One have some kind of disability.

4. One sacrifice himself to save others.

5. One decides to take bad habits to "speed up" the dying process.

I would like to apologise if this question has offended to anyone.


Generally speaking, if someone chooses to terminate their Soul lessons before they are completed, then the delaying of the evolution of the Soul's Consciousness will occur. A Soul will repeat the same lessons they avoided within a different setting. Often times, it is much more challenging to repeat a lesson so it is easier and advisable to learn the lessons the first time around.

The various scenarios that you posted would make an excellent point of discussion, but the same general concept that I listed above can be applied. In each of those scenarios, you can ask yourself, "Is this the Highest intention of the Soul to learn its Divine lessons by taking action this way?" Also, what might be the answer for one Soul in one scenario might not be the same for another.

And ultimately, regardless of how everything and anything plays out, a Soul will eventually and inevitably complete its Divine lessons and accomplish all it sets out to achieve; the flowering and beautification of Consciousness. :)


inavalan 29-05-2018 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hesitant_man
First of all, I just ask this question just to know it, not for planing anything like this.

I have thought about several cases which could apply:

1. One have a normal life and, for some reason, decides to take this decision.

2. One have some chronical disease.

3. One have some kind of disability.

4. One sacrifice himself to save others.

5. One decides to take bad habits to "speed up" the dying process.

I would like to apologise if this question has offended to anyone.


Whatever you fear that would happen, that's what you'll experience, for a awhile. Then you'll wake up and put it behind you. It's that simple. (It isn't fair that suicide bombers will enjoy themselves for awhile.)

inavalan 29-05-2018 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imzadi
... the delaying of the evolution of the Soul's Consciousness will occur. A Soul will repeat the same lessons they avoided ...


Compared to eternity, any finite delay is insignificant.

shivatar 29-05-2018 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hesitant_man
First of all, I just ask this question just to know it, not for planing anything like this.

I have thought about several cases which could apply:

1. One have a normal life and, for some reason, decides to take this decision.

2. One have some chronical disease.

3. One have some kind of disability.

4. One sacrifice himself to save others.

5. One decides to take bad habits to "speed up" the dying process.

I would like to apologise if this question has offended to anyone.


The consequence of suicide is that you die lol. Considering death is a rare and treasured experience, it should be done with the utmost care and diligence. You only get to die once you know! best to go out on a good note.

I think death is just a blink of the cosmic eyes. One moment you are alive, you blink and there is some black, but then your eyes open up again and you are in a new place but still feel the same sense of "I" and have a sensation of a body (feeling of aliveness within you, maybe consisting of arms and legs, maybe consisting of an amorphous cloud).

I also think of death and the process of dying like a rock rolling down a hill. The momentum carries on into the next life. The emotional momentum, the identity momentum, the momentum of your entire being just keeps going.

if a person dies of suicide, they are most likely in a profoundly negative state of mind and emotions. And based on my beliefs, that negative state is just going to continue after death. so death by suicide really never helps anything, actually just makes things even more difficult imo.

2. depends on the chronic disease, but in general it's not OK to take your own life under any circumstances. If you have ANY ability to help other people, then you should cling to your life. Even if all you can do is help people with advice, listen, or be helpful in some other way.

3. There is no disability that is worth taking the life. Well, maybe a few. Like very very late stage alzheimers where a person doesnt recognize anybody and is literally a few months away from dying anyways. Under a few rare and special circumstances I'd understand. but for 99.9% of conditions I say there is no good reason. Paraplegic? so things got a little rough. you dont give up though, you fight through it. mentally ill? same thing. gotta learn to fight through it!

4. a sacrifice is not a suicide.

5. I've heard people call this "subtle suicide". its actually very common. A lot of people do this, maybe even millions or tens of millions. A ridiculous amount of people do it lol.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...subtle-suicide

Imzadi 29-05-2018 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shivatar
The consequence of suicide is that you die lol.


Best laugh on the forums today. Lol

inavalan 29-05-2018 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shivatar
...

if a person dies of suicide, they are most likely in a profoundly negative state of mind and emotions. And based on my beliefs, that negative state is just going to continue after death. so death by suicide really never helps anything, actually just makes things even more difficult imo. ...

So you're saying that's better (for soul, or whatever) to extend that "profoundly negative state of mind and emotions" while living too.

I don't believe that "suffering" is required, or useful to soul evolvement. Actually the opposite!

I don't advocate suicide, but instilling fear in those poor troubled minds is wrong, because after death the fear of retribution for what they did will put them through an imaginary hell, all too real for them.

Imzadi 30-05-2018 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inavalan
Compared to eternity, any finite delay is insignificant.


I would have to say that the finite delay while seemingly small and inconsequential compared to Eternity, is not insignificant at all. Every experience and every challenge that a Soul goes through however "big" or "small" is important and vastly meaningful to the collective Divine. :)

Dargor 30-05-2018 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by linen53
Well, I commit suicide in my last life and I do remember what happened afterwards. I commit suicide because I was a virgin who was sexually violated. It was complicated. I had an overbearing father who was looking to marry me off and if it was found out I was not a virgin all hell would have broke lose. I was very terrified of my father's wrath. So I commit suicide.

I'm surprised you did not include those who have been hurt in some way and find suicide the only way out.

Anyway, I wrote the following in another post recently about my suicide and what happened afterwards.

There was no hell, no judgement other than me judging myself. There was nothing but support and understanding.

Anyway here's what I wrote.

I commit suicide in my last life. I remember having my life review and being very disappointed in myself. I was so shameful. I wanted to go somewhere to think. I just couldn't seem to grow spiritually beyond a certain point. Many lifetimes of distractions in some form or another.

So several guides/angels took me to a gray planet. We passed through space passing planets and even a group of people floating in space engaged in group sex

Once we got to the gray planet I was directed to what looked like a huge bubble. The surrounding terrain was gray and flat with no vegetation or other landmarks. I could see an oasis inside the bubble with trees, a cottage and a horse next to the house.

I walked in the bubble and was amongst the oasis setting. This bubble was like a hologram (Star Trek). I could go for miles and miles once inside the bubble. But once I was inside, I couldn't go out of the bubble. I was in this bubble for quite a long time.

There were residents who lived on the gray planet who would come and watch me. I called them the 'murmurers'. They wore plain robes with sandaled feet and all they did was murmur (gossip) amongst themselves. They irritated me to no end. Eventually they would go away (murmuring). But every so often they would be back.

While I was in this bubble I took walks, rode the horse, there were orchards, streams, meadows, just about everything you would expect in the setting. I would use the cottage when I needed privacy from the murmurers or just to take a nap. I don't think there was night there.

As I said I was there for a very long time.....thinking. And when I had thought it all out, a Being appeared and took me out of the bubble (long story short).

I went before a 'council' and told them what I wanted to accomplish in this lifetime and how I wanted to accomplish it. It was pretty ladened with some bad stuff. And they truly tried to discourage me. But I was adamant. And so I am here.

Oh, I also remember my soul coming back to this plane. I was falling. Falling. Falling. I was excited and thinking of what I would accomplish in this lifetime and all the stuff that would happen to me and how that would occur. I was positive that this time I would get past my stumbling block. All the while falling.

As I fell further it went from bright to dim. And dimmer and dimmer. And I remember taking note of that. And as things became dimmer I felt myself further away from the Source of Light. And as I was further away from the Source I began to have doubts as to my life-plan. And then everything went black.

There are many, many, many, many planes of existence on the other side, which one may term 'heaven'. All of them are different and are at a different vibration. Where one goes when they leave the body depends on their own individual vibration, i.e., where they are spiritually. And also where in their subconscious, they term 'heaven' as being.

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...d.php?t=122922


I must say that's a very interesting post about the afterlife and quite detailed as well. If I may ask, this planet with the bubble you visited, was it a physical world like Earth or a spiritual world?

innerlight 30-05-2018 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by linen53
Have you ever heard of the artist Thomas Kinkade inner? He paints quaint scenes often with a cottage nestled in it. I believe he is depicting our 'cottage' experiences. I think many have that kind of experience for one reason or another.

Yep! I made it through my tribulations in this life and finally got past those nasty stumbling blocks. It was tough but I made it.





I am familiar with the name, but not of the work. I would not be surprised in the least bit if many of the works of art/artists we know today, did not tap into consciousness and capture worlds that exist somewhere. Or music they've heard on other planets/dimensions/planes.

shivatar 30-05-2018 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inavalan
So you're saying that's better (for soul, or whatever) to extend that "profoundly negative state of mind and emotions" while living too.

I don't believe that "suffering" is required, or useful to soul evolvement. Actually the opposite!

I don't advocate suicide, but instilling fear in those poor troubled minds is wrong, because after death the fear of retribution for what they did will put them through an imaginary hell, all too real for them.


What I'm saying is there is an unknown aspect to what happens after death. What I know about life and reality as we experience it is that there is a profound ability to control our experience. Maybe that control is limited to life.

There are people who can lucid dream and control their dreams. but for the vast majority of people and most nights of dreaming, there is little to no control. Maybe after death there is little to no control, just like dreaming.

I don't believe that suffering is required but I do believe that it has its uses. and that suffering is not contradictory to spiritual advancement. If it were it wouldn't make sense for so much of the spiritual seekers to be living an ascetic lifestyle.

also I believe soul is just a bigger and more impressive version of your current self. I believe soul is like you (or me) right now, but with the ability to see past lives and potential future lives. I believe soul is like a bookmark in our existence, it keeps track of our past and potential futures. But that is all I believe about the soul, it only has a few very small abilities that we dont have. Higher self though, I believe that is vastly different from us now. as different from an ant than the boot that steps on it.

People should feel free to share their wisdom no matter what, even if another person feels "instilled with fear". in sharing wisdom people should be able to enjoy freedom of communication, not have to watch what they say because of how the person might possibly take it.

linen53 31-05-2018 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerlight
I am familiar with the name, but not of the work. I would not be surprised in the least bit if many of the works of art/artists we know today, did not tap into consciousness and capture worlds that exist somewhere. Or music they've heard on other planets/dimensions/planes.


Thank you for keeping an open mind. That is so essential in a spiritual journey.

Rah nam 31-05-2018 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hesitant_man
First of all, I just ask this question just to know it, not for planing anything like this.

I have thought about several cases which could apply:

1. One have a normal life and, for some reason, decides to take this decision.

2. One have some chronical disease.

3. One have some kind of disability.

4. One sacrifice himself to save others.

5. One decides to take bad habits to "speed up" the dying process.

I would like to apologise if this question has offended to anyone.





No matter how we die, when we die prematurely, it always depends on our state of mind. We arrive on the "other side" in the same state as we leave this side. The big difference is, we create an image that reflects our state of mind.

Just as some examples, a cousin of mine, spiritually aware, ill and did not want to be a burden to his family, committed suicide, and short after I asked my friends if he needed some assistance, they said yes, I ask if they can help, and next day when I checked he had crossed over.
An other family member committed suicide, he did not cope with life at all, highly depressed. When I entered the non physical earth realm with the assistance of my friends, I found him deep in a cave-like labyrinth. It took me at least a week of sitting twice a day, (without going into any details how it is done) until he became responsive and followed me so he could cross over.

I just use this two examples. I think they can show how different a crossing over with suicide can be.

Native spirit 31-05-2018 01:28 PM

Suicide is done for a variety of reasons.and none of us can condemn the person who does it.we don't know what state of mind that person was in. unless you have walked in that persons footsteps you can not know.
Thomas Kinkade was called the painter of light.his work is beautiful if you don't know about him google him.you wont be disappointed.
he has passed now.and that I believe was by suicide.
I am a medium and have bough people through who passed by their own hand.
from what they have told me they go into Healing.


Namaste

linen53 31-05-2018 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight
I must say that's a very interesting post about the afterlife and quite detailed as well. If I may ask, this planet with the bubble you visited, was it a physical world like Earth or a spiritual world?


By physical vs spiritual world I think you mean a place you incarnate vs a place you go after you have completed an incarnation. I think. Let me know if I'm wrong.

It was a place people go after they have completed an incarnation. There was a bluff that separated me from the murmuring people. In their case they were obsessing in gossiping/murmuring. They lived in some kind of village of some sort out of my view.

They all wore gray/brownish robes with a rope like belt tied at the waist. No children. All adults.

linen53 31-05-2018 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerlight
I would not be surprised in the least bit if many of the works of art/artists we know today, did not tap into consciousness and capture worlds that exist somewhere. Or music they've heard on other planets/dimensions/planes.


I agree wholeheartedly.

linen53 31-05-2018 04:49 PM

Thomas Kinkade cottages

https://thomaskinkade.com/art-genre/cottages/

Native spirit 31-05-2018 09:18 PM

My daughter bought me a book .full of prints of his cottages.because she knows how much I love his work.

Namaste

Michelle11 01-06-2018 12:29 PM

My personal opinion is that we aren't judged for bailing. In fact it is sometimes a possible life potential given the stage we are at with a life lesson. It's never encouraged or wanted but sometimes the odds are stacked against us and our human brain sees no other options to fix our troubles. And that is the point. Suicide itself isn't the issue. Suicide is one solution to a problem we perceive is insurmountable. Some people resort to other solutions like drinking, running away or even homicide. As with any destructive driven solution, after we have committed suicide we can appreciate that it isn't a solution that solves anything and only serves to cause tremendous pain and suffering to our loved ones left behind so on top of regret for giving up we may also feel guilt and shame for hurting others but we aren't ever judged by anyone but ourselves and maybe some humans but never by spirit. It's understood how hard this experience is and no one is ever forced to take on a difficult life nor cast aside if they fail to be able to tolerate it once in it.

As for the lesson getting harder after one has suicided I suspect that would depend on where the soul is at and what the soul chooses. Lessons get harder in an effort to wake us up. Humans can be very resilient and adaptable and can learn how to live under very harsh circumstances. The status quo is often preferred over the unknown so we can turn a blind eye to our troubles because facing them is scary then living with the pain. Especially if we have learned how to suppress our feelings. So the ante gets upped or better said, we choose to up the ante as a means for drawing out the pain we so deftly learned to control so we can deal with it. But if we are already in a state of abject pain odds are we may not choose a worse life but maybe even one less painful to give us a better shot at sorting our human self out.

The truth is our soul isn't damaged, broken or unevolved. It's only the human perception that misleads us into believing those things and it is the goal of the soul to shift those perceptions so that more of its true nature can be expressed in the human form. But a human brain that is wired for survival can get caught up living in fear and it's a challenge for our soul to break past that bodily instinct. But in the process of realizing it's true nature in the human form we may make unhealthy, unhelpful, unloving choices to fix and/or solve our troubles until we finally see the only real solution is to throw love at it. Life is a process of trial and error. We will fail many times in the process of learning what works by experiencing what doesn't work because we only have an appreciation for what does and doesn't work by experiencing it for ourselves. At least that's my perception of things.

Dargor 01-06-2018 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by linen53
By physical vs spiritual world I think you mean a place you incarnate vs a place you go after you have completed an incarnation. I think. Let me know if I'm wrong.

It was a place people go after they have completed an incarnation. There was a bluff that separated me from the murmuring people. In their case they were obsessing in gossiping/murmuring. They lived in some kind of village of some sort out of my view.

They all wore gray/brownish robes with a rope like belt tied at the waist. No children. All adults.


So the planet was physical, but the people native to it outside the bubble/dome and you yourself were non-physical? Sorry if I ask too much questions.

linen53 01-06-2018 04:44 PM

Never can ask to many questions Slayer.

The planet was a physical place, dirt, gray clouds, no sun. The issue was no distractions for the murmurers (except me).

The people there were not native. They were placed there just like I was. Call it a place to go when you die. In their case they just needed to be narcissistic and fit into a tight clan with their rigid rules and 'safety in numbers'. It's where they were in their evolution. I'd say they were very young souls which had incarnated some, but not a lot.

Not a good thing, not a bad thing, it just Was.

See, the whole point is, we have endless time. Time to learn every lesson to the minutest detail. Then we move on to the next lesson.

They were there to murmur/gossip, I was there to be left alone (except their pesky visits) and to think.

Rah nam 01-06-2018 11:55 PM

In the astral realm you can create what ever you want. A house with a lawn in the front, the lawn will not grow, or you can have a cup of tea, and pretend to drink it but you will not get the sensation you will get in this realm.
Even so we call those realms non physical, they are technically physical, just less so.

7luminaries 04-06-2018 04:16 PM

Very nice thread...really have enjoyed the thoughts, sentiments, and experiences shared.

Peace & blessings all :hug3:
7L

Starman 06-06-2018 03:25 PM

It seems to me that most human beings practice some type of high risk suicidal behavior regularly, even though they may not think of themselves as being suicidal, still they may have a secret, or subconscious, death wish in practicing such behaviors.

Driving recklessly or with road rage, smoking and ingesting other known carcinogens, injecting heroine or taking other deadly substances, thrill seeking, and a host of other high-risk behaviors. Intention is key because usually people who do these things may say they do not intend to take their own life, yet the behavior they practice throws caution to the wind.

It is widely believed in the mental health field that a person who can take their own life has a high probability of taking the lives of others, and often murder-suicides have been seen on the news. Suicide bombers as well as people who kill loved ones and then kill themselves have demonstrated this.

Then there is “suicide by cop” when a person does not have the nerve to take their own life so they point a toy gun, or unloaded gun, at a police officer hoping the officer will kill them. As a former ambulance paramedic, I have seen first-hand everything I am mentioning here in this post. Intentions may come on suddenly and a person kills themselves without much thought or that person may ruminate about killing themselves.

I would guess that just about everyone at some point in their life will have some sort of suicidal ideation, or ideas and feelings of taking their own life. Suicidal ideations should always be taken seriously and the more details a person has put into such ideas the more apt they are to carry out such ideas. In the U.S. it has been reported that approximately 2,000 people attempt suicide everyday, but this is only reported cases and the total actual number is possibly double or triple that.

I believe in suicide prevention, primarily because we live in a temporal existence and no matter the situation, even this too will pass. I have also seen lots of debilitated people, missing arms, legs, or wheel chair bound like Dr. Stephen Hawkins, rise and achieve great things unimaginable.

Still I have mixed feelings because while I believe in, and practice, suicide prevention, I also believe that a person has the right to determine when and how they want to die. As far as what happens to them in the afterlife, human death is a highly subjective and intimate experience which I believe has countless possibilities, just like human life.

SerendipityLizard 07-06-2018 02:33 AM

Well, I have a different opinion to those who have illnesses who want to take their own life.

I remember a podcast that talked about the opinions of doctors on how they’d like to die, and the majority had very different ideas from the general population not in the medical field. They opted that if they had a terminal illness of no signs of recovering, they’d volunteer to be euthenized.

As doctors, they’ve seen several people dying and have died multiple times before. Most people want to extend their lives more and more, but what is the point of living if you don’t find joy in it? Most at their worst would be stuck in their beds all day barely moving, and have to face their loved ones with horror at their condition.

What better an ending to life with a higher vibration if people don’t overextend their lives? They could say their final goodbyes to their loved ones, dedicate their money and resources to donations as their last charity, and peacefully pass away.

Choosing death is not always a decision made out of fear. Sometimes it’s made in the feeling of bravery — whether it’s like the cases above, or whether someone sacrifices their lives for others to save them.

markings 07-06-2018 09:40 AM

I think the simple consequence of suicide is that one is dead.

Everything else is pretty much made up, mostly to keep one from doing it. A biological imperative translated into the mental sphere.

Greenslade 08-06-2018 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerlight
None of us really knows for sure, because we are all still living. So no answer is 100%. In my most humble opinion, I would say, a person would end up in a state of low vibration. Because if you are open to the idea of suicide, even if it's to end illness, physically or not, you are in such a state where you are so down from it, you are giving up so to speak. Well, that is a crass term to bluntly say "giving up" because I know it is more than that.

Not all suicide attempts are successful and I've talked to people who have tried to commit suicide. It's also a fallacy that people are in low vibration, that's human judgement. My friend's brother tried three times to commit suicide and each time there was absolutely no outward clue that he was unhappy, often once the decision has been made people sometimes move forwards with a complete clarity of mind. In my friend's borrher's case it was a surprisingly-well planned and executed attempt and only a highly improbable freak of chance stopped it from happening.

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerlight
In that state where the turmoil is so deep, and so strong, it's going to leave a mark on you, even after you pass. Putting you in a low vibration. I would not be surprised if many that do, that end up up taking them selves, have a higher chance of becoming earth bound, and just wandering around for a time, until they regain themselves.

The turmoil isn't always so deep because suicide doesn't mean the person has to be in turmoil. I wasn't when I made my attempt. It happened just before I joined the RAF, and I was looking forwards to a completely new Life t the time. I had every reason not to commit suicide but when the decision was made I knew exactly why I wanted to do it. I knew someone who had tried to commit suicide by jumping off a bridge, she was schizophrenic and 'God' told her to do it. Mental health is stigmatised so few people will talk about it openly, and that can lead to people withdrawing into themselves and not seeking the help they really need.



What few people think about is that suicide and what leads up to it - whatever that may be - is an experience as much as any other. Does Spirit attach stigma to suicide or does Spirit perceive suicide as a 'valid' Life's experience? Is there a reason you as a Spirit can't experience suicide as part of your Life's Purpose/Karmic obligations? And if so, does that still make suicide low vibrational? Because really, if you define something as 'low vibrational' that's judgement and it's a reflection of you and that's what many people who use the term don't understand. Gotta Love the irony. Who says they have lost themselves? Suicide is a sovereign choice just the same as any other choice that's made - including the one to be Spiritual.



In Spirit there is Unconditional Love, and that means Love without conditions. Judgement is a condition, the stigma attached to suicide is a condition, not applying many of the cornerstones of Spirituality that we'd apply to ourselves as 'Spiritual people' is a condition. It's in threads like these where we really need to stand back from ourselves and take a damn good look at ourselves in the mirror because the subject of suicide is not about 'them', it's about us.

Starman 08-06-2018 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michelle11
My personal opinion is that we aren't judged for bailing. In fact it is sometimes a possible life potential given the stage we are at with a life lesson. It's never encouraged or wanted but sometimes the odds are stacked against us and our human brain sees no other options to fix our troubles.

The person who commits suicide is not necessarily mentally ill, although they may be temporarily disturbed. Professional people with relatively high educational levels commit suicide more frequently than those with lower educational levels, and men are more successful at suicide than women; largely because men generally use more violent means of taking their lives than women. But the one thing about suicide, as you have mentioned "our human brain sees no other options to fix our troubles," and this is dependent upon whether or not we are able to see any other options given our state of mind.

Quote:

And that is the point. Suicide itself isn't the issue. Suicide is one solution to a problem we perceive is insurmountable. Some people resort to other solutions like drinking, running away or even homicide. As with any destructive driven solution, after we have committed suicide we can appreciate that it isn't a solution that solves anything and only serves to cause tremendous pain and suffering to our loved ones left behind so on top of regret for giving up we may also feel guilt and shame for hurting others but we aren't ever judged by anyone but ourselves and maybe some humans but never by spirit. It's understood how hard this experience is and no one is ever forced to take on a difficult life nor cast aside if they fail to be able to tolerate it once in it.
A very astute observation. I also embrace that we are not judged by spirit, and while we may be judged by others, it is our own conscience which we have to come to terms with. I had a client once who put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger, the bullet went in one side of his head and out the other side, not leaving much damage. This guy was so embarrassed and he felt so humiliated. He felt even more worthless than he did when he attempted suicide; telling me that he couldn't even commit suicide correctly. This was his judgement that he imposed on himself, just like the judgement he made to end his life..

Quote:

As for the lesson getting harder after one has suicided I suspect that would depend on where the soul is at and what the soul chooses. Lessons get harder in an effort to wake us up. Humans can be very resilient and adaptable and can learn how to live under very harsh circumstances. The status quo is often preferred over the unknown so we can turn a blind eye to our troubles because facing them is scary then living with the pain. Especially if we have learned how to suppress our feelings. So the ante gets upped or better said, we choose to up the ante as a means for drawing out the pain we so deftly learned to control so we can deal with it. But if we are already in a state of abject pain odds are we may not choose a worse life but maybe even one less painful to give us a better shot at sorting our human self out.
So I think what you are saying here is that suicidal ideations, or thoughts of suicide, may be part of a growing process? Suffering can be a great teacher.

Quote:

The truth is our soul isn't damaged, broken or unevolved. It's only the human perception that misleads us into believing those things and it is the goal of the soul to shift those perceptions so that more of its true nature can be expressed in the human form. But a human brain that is wired for survival can get caught up living in fear and it's a challenge for our soul to break past that bodily instinct. But in the process of realizing it's true nature in the human form we may make unhealthy, unhelpful, unloving choices to fix and/or solve our troubles until we finally see the only real solution is to throw love at it. Life is a process of trial and error. We will fail many times in the process of learning what works by experiencing what doesn't work because we only have an appreciation for what does and doesn't work by experiencing it for ourselves. At least that's my perception of things.

Well said, this is an excellent post. Often what we call a problem is not the problem; often the problem is our perception of the situation and not the situation itself. I do not believe that our deeper being is damaged by us taking our life, although our perception may be skewed. But it is interesting that one often takes their life to escape a situation, not knowing what they are escaping to. There is a perception that death will automatically bring a relief from what they are trying to escape, but thinking the problem/issue is the location ignores that the issue may be more internal than that. The feeling which one probably seeks in taking their life may be similar to the comfort of returning to the womb, a carefree state.

Suicides are on the rise; this week alone in the U.S. we have heard of two prominent public figures who have taken their life. But the biggest increase is among teenagers and the elderly. Celebrity suicides can impact, and influence, those in the general public who are suicidal themselves. An while it appears that most suicides are due to depression, I think we need to start looking at mental illness the same way that we view physical illness, notwithstanding, not all suicides are due to mental illness.

linen53 08-06-2018 09:19 PM

And so another member here brought to my attention that Anthony Bourdain has commit suicide. He just didn't appear to be 'depressed' or 'suicidal' which adds more credence to Greenslade's thoughts.

I didn't comment on your comments Greenslade but agreed with what you said wholeheartedly.


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