An issue with relationships and friendships
 

Hii all,

I just need to sort this out for a moment.

So, when I do well, everything stable, there is this gift from above to make it even better. I am a guy who mostly hangs with woman, and there are some issues with that. So when I do well, I usually have like 2 or 3 good friendships that are worthy and special. Then when everything is stable, a fourth and a fifth stop by. At that point, I totally mess up. I want to be with a group of friends. So that is golden. But somehow something gets in my system. I would get fights and unreasonable discussions. In the moment it seems like I am justified. But it keeps happening. Woman call me toxic sometimes at that point. Even though that isn’t correct. It’s more that I get nervous I guess.

What plays a role as well, is intimacy. I have a certain lack of intimacy in my life. So it gets hard to separate out the friendships from romantic stuff. I notice too I get proud because I have more friends than I ever thought I’d have. And somehow pride usually means my loss.

I haven’t figured out what to do about this yet,
So I’ll probably post it. Anyway, I seek a way to do emotional inner work for this. Maybe accepting that I shouldn’t be proud or figuring out a way to be proud as a start. And also, working through the nervousness.

Much kindness,

CW

Hi CW. It's interesting.

I'm not here to sort out.

I don't know what will happen if the nervousness persists. Are you interested to stopping that?

What will happen if girls come/stay/go??

I don't know what will happen to you when all the above happens. Please let me know how you perceive these words.

Thank you. :D

Situation isn't clear. Are these women just friends of yours or are you also intimate?
And if it's just friends and there are a few more female friends things go wrong?
In a way quite understandable as it will disrupt the dynamic.
Or are these new females women you are intimate with?

Please be clear about the situation as what you told us isn't so far.

when you discuss are you up in a flow when you do, eager, and then someone comes and stop your flow and just take little chews of what you just said and turn it against you? and then you "get upset" (or well you really don't they ones that has gotten to you just wants you to come off that way) and try, again to explain your point, but is met by suspiscioun and that classic yeah right attitude? The looks shared between one woman and the next. Oh, if you caught one of those, something's up.

could be too something you have somehow missed being a guy, and that is when you put lots of women together, well how should i put it? They kind of gang up together, talk behind your back, hold a grudge forever, make life more complicated than it needs to be? guys are often more up front, direct, have their dispute open and then it is over. I am only speaking of my own experiences about this. Women can hold it way longer than guys can. Somehow I don't think your pride is the question here.

I think too they kind of want to know your role, why you're there, what your goal is? is it really just friendship or more? and if more than who are you into? just so you are not playing the field? those kinds of thoughts?

just throwing in some ideas here, I'm guessing your agenda is what is unclear, and I kind of think it is unclear to you too, you're just testing the waters, but if you are a one guy doing this and there are several women in the group...well...Good luck is all I have to say, not saying you are doing anything wrong, I don't think you are, you know, it is jsut...well you know, the above reasons, there's where it can turn out wrong. I hope I don't make this even more confusing as it already is? i just think you have to be very obvious with what you want and who you are into, if they can just smell that you are into more than one of them - then you are not for either of them, then they are just thinking about how to get you out, bascially, if they are strong women, if they however have low self esteem and are not very bright they might confront each other (that is 2 women or more) but I am guessing you are in a crowd of women who are not like that. You are getting nervous - because you should be. That's how they want you to feel, maybe not the bunch of them, but 2 is enough. I've had boys, men that are friends all my life and am used to both scenarious. I sometimes have discovered that I am the only woman left at the table with a bunch of guys as we are discussing things and for some reason the women that use to be there have left and are doing something else. But as the guys are always clear on who I am and what I am up to I certainly don't get nervous and they don't make me nervous, and I never get hit on at those sort of atmospheres, discussions taking place. I am one of those who fall in love rarely and normally see guys as friends or brothers, it is if I was to have a romantic connection with a guy that I get super nervous and shy and awkward. I always had female friends who wanted to come over just so they could check in the guys in my home, first family etc, and I never looked at them like that. So again I am thinking you gotta state your case, make sure they know why you are there ,and if you are into someone, please be just into that someone, not more than one. I'm getting nervous just thinking about you caught in this situation, and don't know what you're doing wrong, I can't help it! Like yaks.

I think you must have missed some social code or something. Just state it to them and I think you'll be fine, but you won't be fine if you are into more than one romantically. That is unless the women are braindead. If they are not - then you are coming off as a player and unattractive. If you only knew, well perhaps you do know, how fast women knows a guy is hitting on more than one woman at a party. Wouldn't touch him wouldn't want to go near him, just see him as a joke then, yes we do smile and we do talk to such a person but we don't fall for it, we know. He of course does not know - that we know (...and evil laugh followed). I guess that is what I am trying to say. I hope I haven't hurt your feelings. You asked of advice so here it is. If I have misread your words and situation - Sorry. I'm doing my best here.

Best of luck :)

They are just friends.

I have been intimate with some though and it happens. But even though I’m unclear to myself as to what I want, at the start when it’s still a little group it usually goed pretty well

Well, then it doesn't really surprise me. If you're not clear yourself about what you're doing and what you want they're not clear about it either.
Maybe their hopes got raised when you were intimate.
It all depends what you told and possibly promised them.
If it has been going on for quite some time then maybe some have fallen in love and if then you start to hang out with new women, and possibly also intimate with them, well, you get jealousy.
Quite logical.
Be clear to them and realise that even though you may say NSA, sex only, people and esp. women tend to develop feelings when they have sex.

Why not get male friends?
I've been with someone who only had female friends, all with whom he'd had sex with at some point or other. Never again. It's just weird.
If you have no male friends maybe take some time to figure out why not. Like women need to be with other women in order to feel good, men need to hang out with other men to feel good. Masculine energy is entirely different from the feminine.

In any case, good luck.

Thank you FairyCrystal.

Yeah I’ve never promised them anything. I’m quite honest and don’t make promises when I don’t think I can make them true. No lying or games involved here. It’s all free will and by choice

Thank you all for being so honest btw. It’s just a lot to take in and to contemplate

well good you're not a player and chose honesty which shows respect, however it is not an isolated event the intimacy as we are human beings with an emotional life to us, and spirits, souls inside of us, there will be some sort of consequence from it.

Today it is as if it is getting more and more modern I feel to even openly talk about just going to bed with just about anyone without any emotional connection or promises, in my book I don't understand how it is done without mutual attraction and if there is attraction there should be feelings, be something.

In a way I see it as rejection, like I only like you so much that I like your body and you like mine, but it ain't more than that. I just don't think we are meant to work like that, it is as if we are rejecting the mind, heart, spirit of the one we then go to bed with and they too of us. I would never be able to have it like that, to me it is too cold. Then again it may very well be that I am seen as too deep minded again and too sensitive again and maybe too romantic for my own good. I just know myself too well to know it would never work with me, especially when one has discovered the great combination of love and sex. With that written I do feel that I am in minority in my own surrounding in life, thinking, feeling about it this way, as exes, current and even female friends has apparently jumped in the sack without serious, far from it, commitments.

It was one of the warning bells to me, when I began to look at an ex differently after learning he had for several years, had what he thought of as only a sexual relationship and the poor woman he had it with had naturally developed feelings for him, which isn't exactly something you can help, control, but he didn't care about that. I would have thought he was a much better man had he developed feelings for her, and not continued to use her like that, and she still hoping. My heart just went out to her, and that I guess was the last thing he expected. He couldn't see where he had gone wrong. He had only been honest. I just don't see sex as isolated events with someone else, there are going to be a shift, there are going to be consequences from it. I think it is just something that has become modern, as in that people talk about it more these days and make it more acceptable, but I don't think it is emotionally healthy, to be truthful, to think this is OK, we human beings are far more complex than that. No wonder it gets complicated later on.

There is yet another level of this sex-only business, that I think one should consider at first, it's not isolated to the bed only, the event only, to the time only. They've even made studies of this and it turns out 2 bodies of 2 adults having been in a romantic relationship - when it breaks up - the bodies has gotten addicted to each other and suffers a physical, inner loss, this is real, there are memories too that the body has, and the exchange. In some cultures people don't even shake hands as they believe spiritually we exchange energy. For me sex can never be just sex, I think it can be in anyone's head, that we are wired that way, but when it comes to real life and real people we have after all feelings. It has to be with someone I'm in love with, that I love, and that I feel loves me.

We also share vulnerable sides to us, it's not just sex, parts of our bodies has stories to tell and scars, it is getting to know someone, smell someone, them in your care, in your hand, a touch, your eyes meet, you're close.

Anyways if you have been mixing it like that it's no wonder it gets to feel nervous or complicated is my guess, but you're not alone, that's for sure, I don't know if i am too old fashioned (to tell the truth I think people have always done this but just not talked about it so openly, but I have a feeling it is more these days but again that could just be because people do talk about it...) or just too sensitive, could be there is something wrong with the way I am, but i have to go with what is right for me. You have to go what is right for you - but that too has to be what is right with your friend sometimes, intimate partner other times.

I don't judge my exes or current as I do believe they did have some sort of feelings, attraction for that other one, what scared me, and put me off, was really the guy who did not have that, for that long amount of time and how he allowed himself to take advantage and treat her, it was so obvious he had no conscious. Had he at least said he had had feelings for her I would be the first to go hurrah, and not be so scarred stiff as I got as I knew I was looking at someone callous, and I even felt this strong urge to protect her, stand up for her, and I guess I wasn't suppose to feel that way being his fiance. She always felt more human to me, after that, than he did.

I have talked to my current about this modern concept of just having sex with no emotions attached (which I still can't wrap my head around) and he has told me that we all have physical needs and too miss that someone, miss the real body, miss the warmth, and rather take that than nothing. Another friend of mine (female) has tried to explain it too to me, and what has been the experiences is that one is developing feelings more than the other and the agreement then breaks before anyone gets hurt, but always someone gets hurt anyhow. Perhaps even if it happens just once or twice - something has for sure changed in the relationship I think. And then the longer time one has this then it comes to no surprise to me that human beings develop feelings for the other. I just don't believe you can isolate it from the rest. It's too special.

Hii asearcher,

I agree that sex can’t be isolated from emotions and feels. This is why I don’t go to bed with anyone. Just with good friends. We talk, we laugh, we discuss, we feel and we are intimate at times. It good to notice that that intimacy is very seldom. What intimacy does to me (and maybe sex is a big word because usually it doesn’t go that far) is an ultimate letting go and healing. The woman I do have intimacy with or have had it with, notice this too and mostly or only with me: the profound healing. Like after it happened for a moment everything in the head is just so silent and we do things we were just so scared of before. Last time the girl said to me that she was reliving it for an hour or so because she was so happy it had happened.

However I do know the hurts it can bring. The last time was especially hurtful for me. I felt as if it was only one time and no more, and I craved more. So that felt like dying. But I’m not too sure if that should stop me.

Also, no you’re fine asearcher. Somewhere in your post you said maybe something is wrong with you because you’re sensitive? No you’re just you. It’s totally fine.

But yes it’s kind of old I think. But that doesn’t mean it’s bad.

Kindness,

CW

Hi CosmicWonder, I have been thinking of what you have written, thanks btw for thinking I'm good the way I am. Could it simply be that we all have that longing, it does not have to be of a sexual nature, drive, but simply that need for physical closeness, tenderness?

I got to think how hurt I got one time (this was years ago, but i still remember it as if it was yesterday, then again - I'm sensitive, sigh). I was going with my then relatively new boyfriend to a restaurant in a strange big city, we had booked a hotel for the night. We walked from the hotel to this restaurant where we had plans to meet up with some of his family members and his friends. I was a little nervous and wanted to make a good impression, or at least hope I was OK, you know, approved off. I was so in love with him back then, he was like my dream of everything I wanted in a man. We got serious fast. Everything just clicked or so I thought.

So anyways on our way to see them we held hands. then as we came to see them outside the restaurant we began to talk and at one point he let go of my hand and at one point I took his hand agan (reaching for it) and then it got obvious or was it a mistake, I still was not all that sure, he let go of my hand.

Then at one point in the restaurant he took me aside from everyone and told me he did not want me to touch him (as in holding his hand, because as far as I can remember I think that was all I had done, and possibly touching maybe his arm or shoulder too, in a haste).

he told me this - sharply. Like really sharply. Looking at me as if I should be ashamed of myself. As if he was ashamed of me. I was first of all taken by surprise. Then I was hurt. I think I said just "OK". He said in a haste to me that he did not see anyone else touching each other (there were couples amongst them). I really had no idea. I had not really paid that much attention if some couple touched each other now and then or if they didn't, just as I had not been so fully aware that I was touching him or not. We went to sit amongst the others. I could not look at him. I could not converse with him. I really tried to act as if everything was fine. Had it been today I would have just walked out of the restaurant and would not cared if that would have been rude of me. I would have just left. But he had the car keys and everything and I was in this strange city. And I think I was so surprised still.

We had a fight back at the hotel. Back in the car back home to our city things were still strained between us. This was not at all how I had thought things would go.

Turns out that he had been strictly raised to not show physical signs of tenderness amonst others, especially around his first family. Then it was mocked on. I had no idea. And I had no idea because he had not told me that. HE was one person with me, and another with them. So he did not tell me, he did not pre-warn me, instead it was as if I got a slap in the face all of a sudden. Up til then we had always held hands or what ever. I knew how to behave myself, I knew what was appropriate or not.

After that he apologized and he would as usual try to show physical signs of tenderness but it was now me who was turned off by it. That rejection hurt me so bad, and if and when I tried to explain that in words to him it just sounded as if I was so sensitive. I would never again feel the magic of holding his hand the way I had felt upon him correcting me at the restaurant. Never again. We would hold hands, but it was on his initiative and it just did not ever feel as special, magic as it had done before, it was really to the point that I rather he wouldn't, because a part of me suspected he really did not want to amongst others, he was only doing it to please me and I had no need for it no more.

And that I think is where I will finally get to my point - that sometimes we forget we have needs, and it can be what I describe it as "magic" and your words and your friends it can be "healing"; but we do need it, rather it leds to an sexual act or not, and thinking you are friends with that someone you do have fond feelings for her and then you become close like that, of course then it means something. And what you wrote that you craved more, and that you were hurting. It is that step there to overcome (I do not yet know how to overcome it myself, I have not been able to and it been years, this is so nuts) the feeling of rejection it gave and still dare to reach out I think.

Today if, when I have reached out among his family and friends (we have recently gotten back together after split, therapy...) he is right there accepting my hand, and more often he is touching me than me him, still it will never feel the same way as it did that way before, or maybe, maybe one day I will dare to open that part of my heart that he hurt and it got closed, who knows. I hope it may still open for you, and that you won't let it stop you like I have done in the past, and again I'm not there yet and don't know if I ever will. It is kind of hard now I feel to know how to do it, really, but I'm hoping you can.

Even if he and I have talked about this. And him saying he had thought about it and that it was stupid of him to make what he thought all those people might (or might not) have thought if we occationally held hands or not, matter more to him than what I had thought. I told him too that I found him to be surprisingly inconsiderate of me as he must have known I was a little nervous and he was all I had - while he was at home with these people, this was his family, his friends. He should have looked out for me instead, made sure I was doing OK. Instead he ended up the one to have rejected me, treated me badly that evening, and for what? What had I done that was so bad? I had lovingly reached out for him to show him I loved him (already then I loved him). I came from a family where physical tenderness was something so natural and positive that it never entered my mind that it could be seen as a "show off", especially not something so small, as of one hand in another. I was a shy person and I had no desire to "show off" and to be the center of attention.


Til this day, I was at this birthday party for a kid recently, and there was a young couple there, not the parents, and as they stood in line to get food I saw a simple gesture of him reaching and holding his hand ever so briefly on his girlfriends lower back, the side of it, and soon enough she took her hand to touch his hand, arm, and they did not have to say anything and then they got their food. Of course they did not do that to "show off", it was for them, them knowing they were still connected, it wasn't for other eyes, I just happened to see it. It was almost as if I gasped (but I didn't) as it instantly hurt me, as I knew, I had once had it so special - and after that time in the restaurant - I hadn't had it since. And how precious it really was - to have that. And how easily it can get smashed, it's scary.

I have learned that it does not matter if he and I talk about it, even if it helps he gets me now, it's ruined anyway, as for now at least. I am trying to be more patient with myself. After all I have had it like this for years. I am still so practical when I leave the home and in stores or with his family, it is as if I just shut off that side of me. It was easier that way. That way I didn't get hurt again. And then I think he couldn't have hurt me again, as the damage was already done, I had become "tougher" because of it, so tough even - that I didn't think I needed it. I had become him really, and that wasn't who I really was. Not before. Before I had the magic.

I think once you have that feeling, and it is special, than you should cherish it, before it's gone. Sorry if I sound all dramatic. I wish you all the best with what ever it now is that is going on, and hope you find your way :)

Hii asearcher,

I’m a bit speechless. I recognze the feeling of rejection.

This girl was a girl that really felt special to me for very long. I think I spend several years trying to get her attention. And sometimes she gave it, but would always suddenly stop and turn away and it would always feel like rejection. Never would I mention it. Until, one day, I was done. If was enough. I knew she was my type, that she might very well like me and that it might work. But at that point she hadn’t opened her eyes yet. Then, at that point, I got mad and then after some stating the situation to her openly and bluntly, I moved on as I had gotten the courage to leave her alone. After a month or two, she messaged me saying she was sorry and that she would like literally never let me down again. We became best friends, but never was she special again. We met one time, and she kinda wanted to hug but wanted to see it in the moment. We didn’t hug but we did have dinner together and it was fun (for me it was exhausting as well because well I was quickly tired at that moment. I gave her my all by being so present).

Ae tried to meet up some times more, didn’t happen because of circumstances. I got a girl that wanted my attention and did want physical intimacy and I went with that and it was a lot of fun. That broke, because of a silly fight. So I went back to this girl before that I still had contact with (and that went pretty well, but only she would vaguely hint she wanted more. Never giving her efforts to it really,
even when I was all hers in theory). Now before new year she came over.
And she initiated the more I wanted before that time I got mad. It was special,
It was healing, we both enjoyed it. But when she was gone, we both got rather emotional. She turned away again, I felt it! And it felt thereby it was only one time. Why is a rather unknown to me. Because she wants it. She just seems to rather be with guys that make her feel bad at the moment or something.

Anyway, that is only a small piece of the story. It’s rather complex and difficult to explain. But I felt the freedom to write it down on this forum, while I’m usually warned by my own feels to share.

It does feel unrepairable. I hope I can find a way to make something work, if not with her. Strange enough I was always the guy to show a particular girl my efforts (of course without overdoing). But now I just am searching for potential elsewhere. It feels so unfair.

Much kindness,

CW

Hi CosmicWonder,

I think I feel your pain. So you were in love with her for several years, she didn't respond, you then finally had enough and got mad. I think is a survival mechanism in us, to get us from being punched down over and over. When I get mad it is as if I get myself out of that pit hole, that determination, when I finally stand up for myself, but it takes me way longer before lots of others do, it is as if I am more "generous" in self sacrificing and to be more understanding of the other before I can even feel what it is I am suppose to feel - and then I react. What you could have done all that time waiting for her is that you could have exhausted yourself. I've done that too
You could have felt so much that it made you numb, taking that much energy from you when you were dining with her, you've already before given so much of yourself.

You know, maybe I am taking this too far - I'm no psychiatrist - but could she have a "daddy-issue"? On what you wrote I get the image she does that you think she seek that out, the "bad boys".

If she has had a "bad boy" for a dad, or someone who split - this is my very own theory by the way, just speaking from my small world of experiences, - than she could be subconsciously drawn to thinking she does not deserve more and so if a guy treats her too well (I know, this is so sick, just writing about this is weird) it is not familiar with her, as she is used to the opposite, somewhere in her childhood. She may not at all be aware of this herself. It is so dumb that what we are familiar with is what draws us that direction, instead of what could be healing and good for us. It's "home".

I've had and still have friends who I myself would say have daddy issues - they all (not all my friends) had that in common, their dad either died young (and was some bad... for a figure, unreliable and so on or just wasn't there. These were all intelligent, still are, attractive women who, and I've seen this, rather then go for someone who I know - I know before hand - they will give as little as possible, they will play with them, some of those text messages - I swear had a guy wrote me that I would never respond, but they do. They accept so little, they even light up. And I'm like "What the hell is that ****? Please!", and then if someone else (that I have tried to steer them towards who is of quality, who will not play games, who is sincere - I can go on but I won't - they won't go for that guy. And I'm like but please, give him a chance! And he would never ever write something so tacky as what those others do...sigh).

I've come up with this theory that if a girl has a good dad who is allowed,and who is there for her she will chose a good guy later in life. Because that will be her familiar, her home.

Sadly, again just my small experiences, my own theory, is that unless the woman finally start to wake up and understand this out on her own, she will continue to reject the good guys, she won't see them as "exciting", once she knows - she will have found out the secret substance in these so called bad guys (even bad guys can be dressed have the image of a good guy, I know this from experience) and she will be bored out of her mind, and she will have outgrown them, she will see right through them, their tactics. Til then she will just go around in circles and repeat.

Somehow I am always better, sure about "the problems" my girlfriends has, than to see my own issues, LOL. I've had a classic daddy-issue myself, childhood trauma really, if he had died - they would have taken some consideration to my situation - but as it was "Just a divorce", there was none of that, I think. Then it was much more about bitterness and revenge and that she is so young, she will forget, there are other male figures, new stepdads. Yeah, but you know your dad, no one can replace him. He was like this mystery I needed to solve. I remembered mine but my mom thought I would forget him. I've learned one shouldn't always only listen to what children does say, one should pay attention to what they don't. It was too hurtful for me to say that I thought something was wrong with me because my dad was alive and still he would not see me.

I think some wounds too can be from a previous romantic relationship. I was more sure of myself and I would say for years I lived in a rock steady relationship with what people thought, judged was a bad boy, but he was a good boy, or most of him was a good boy, and we were close and he was never abusive to me, not in words, not in actions. He knew I was shy and he would encourage me to believe more in myself. Had it not been for him I'm not so sure at all I would take the big step to work with what I work with today, for instance. He was like my male cheerleader, LOL. But he was always good at pointing out people's good side, he would just tell them, and he saw mine, and would go this is what you're good at, this is what you should do! But I lost the battle with his drinking and I lost him, and I think that got to me in a way I couldn't explain, which then led me to have this vulnerability in me, I guess, when I so called met a "good guy", who's image was good, but his energy was not, and it was as if I was the only one that could feel that, but because I lacked self esteem in trusting how I could read people and read energy, and because he had by then changed his image to fit mine, (one of his 50 or so masks...) what he thought I would be into, I thought maybe I had made a mistake and judged him too hard...big mistake on my part.

I think unless we deal with what has happened in the past, even past romantic relationships, we end up making the same or similar mistakes as we have a vulnerability of some kind. We have to turn around and face it. I have never been good at that, I was so scared to crash and burn, I rather not feel too much, keep myself busy and move on. I really thought I had done it right.

I understand you must feel lost with all this what has happened with that woman, so much energy you put in it - and I know once one feel that way one can not stop oneself either, it has to run its course.

I think an ideal love affair is when two people are equal in their love for each other. That is when it is what it is suppose to be. But I have too learned along the way that sometimes someone gives and fights for the relationship like 80% and the other one just 20% and is blind to what is going on. There was someone who had a very long lasting marriage and when asked how come it was so long lasting - and presumably happy she said that they took turns fighting to keep it, that they were never at a place where both wanted to leave, and she thought that was the key, and then other times they were equal, in balance.

I can't help but think maybe the woman you fell for - that when she did not have you - she wanted you - and when she had you - she didn't want you, and I can't help but wonder if it is bad boys she is familiar with, and just needs to realize that to make a better choice. Sadly nothing you can do about it. Unless you start to act like a bad boy yourself, which then isn't you, so then that would be a fake you and then that wouldn't be good either...

I very much hope it all works out for you, with who ever it may be with. I understand you must feel a bit lost right now with it all but you will get to the next step and I hope you can heal from all this. To me it does not sound as if you have done anything wrong at all, the opposite and I feel you know that, so that's good, so you don't put yourself down.

Sorry I am writing so much about myself, I guess I do it to try to see it from my perspective, how I can resonate with you in yours, where I get the ideas from, but I guess it make me look really selfish, which is not my intent.

Much kindness

Hi, me again. Trying to think of this from another perspective. I was once in a romantic relationship (several years of it, serious), it ended. Later we became friends, was a slow processe. Not friends as in active friends. I suggested it at the time as he was so riled up (even if he had caused our break up) and I did not want him to think I would spread any bad words about him. I told him too I did not want fighting between us. So we even shook hands on being friends. I thought automatically as his life would take him in one direction mine would another, that this friendship would end. Besides from us breaking up I still thought he was a good person. We knew few of the same people so it was easier that way too, at the time it worked for everyone. Also I did not think we would all be living in the same area forever, we were young and lots of things were happening.

Some years after our break up we met again. I was then coming out or was actually out (it was just difficult to get the last practical matter out of the way, nothing romantically still going on, I wanted to hurry up and get it over with, and that guy tried to then still show off his "power" til the bitter end) of another relationship. There had been mostly mental abuse in the relationship. I was not doing well as I got out of it but first thought it was just stress and that I would be fine, in time. But it was as if I was in this bad cycle and I simply could not sleep. Around this period I kissed my then first break up-guy. We began seeing each other again. As I was a mess, and I was, no question about that, I was then not built to be in any romantic relationship really. I had trouble seeing the one I was seeing again as he had been to me before when we had been a couple those years ago (was about 4-5 years before we had broken up). To me it was as if that guy had died (some time after our break up I had processed my heartbreak over him and then over time learned to view him as only a friend or brother, it did not happen over night).

Something bad had happened to me during the mentally abusive relationship that I did not feel I could talk about. And I def did not think I could talk about it to the guy I was now seeing.

What do I want to say with all this? I guess it is that for me to mix friendship with intimacy did not work, I need a clear intent - he was ready to give me that, but at the time I was afraid, I was scared from my previous relationship. Maybe I did not dare to feel. Maybe I couldn't. I was a mess, I blame myself 100% for this, the guy I was seeing again - he was in a stable cycle in his life, he was loving and feeling good and he was a giving nature. He absolutely did not do anything wrong, in fact him being so wonderful to me made me feel even worse, ungrateful, as if I was only using him. I knew I was in a situation within myself where I had only very little to give, the rest I had to have to try to stabilize myself.

Maybe the one you have lost your heart to - she has gone through something that make her afraid of intimacy? Something she does not dare to tell you?

Mine was not sorted out til I met my current luv who one time asked me, the most gentle way he could if something had happened to me, where as I replied angry was what he was saying was it that I wasn't good in bed? and had something happened to him maybe?!!! . He took it the right way, he could tell it was sensitive. (he can have a temper but he did not have it then). I didn't need to be worried at all though, a normal guy who's not a sadist or psychopath or what ever knows how to make love and read signals and be attentive, no words needed. I was to understand that what had happened to me before was never to happen to me again. That I was safe. We kept this to ourselves.

I guess my thoughts is that you being a friend one minute and the next it is intimacy, that it must be confusing and confusing to you as well, as well as the one you have feelings for. Then again I understand it must be confusing as maybe you are not sure yet, and that person not either. To me it is more simple (in my head that is) to just go into it with a clear intent: We date. We are romantic. We're no friends. (not that we are enemies, you know what I mean). People often wants to know where they are going, they try too to step on the brakes but I do think in our nature, when everything is new, something new happens, we want to know intent, where we going. Sometimes we can't answer that but we can answer that we have good intention and this is the goal, the vision I have for us (or something like it how now one wants to express one self). Also it can be so easily wrong in the beginning of things, we have different pace, and before we sort of come together, being comfy with the pace that is, for both parties. Just some thoughts. Hope you don't mind?

Hii asearcher,

I don’t think setting expectations will help much. It might even block things more. If I say for example I only want a romantic relationship with you and no friendship, she might very well be torn because she can’t handle that.

But also, you’re right about the abuse. In fact, since yesterday she is back at an ex I just rather dislike (and not because they are “romantic”, I’m not the type to get jealous. Have even had a girl which had sex with other guys and I didn’t mind at all. As long as it’s in agreement). This ex of hers isn’t the one that abused her, but he is very much lost and manipulative.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Much kindness,

CW

Oh I'm sorry, CosmicWonder. What a mess, so she's back with the ex now. I have to say I still kinda admire you to be able to have a friendship with someone and yet have romantic feelings for them and sometimes intimacy, for me it would be too much to handle, then again who am I to talk, haven't exactly had a smooth sail myself. A part of me wish to say that if you did show her how much you love her, care for her in a romantic way that she might then start to look at you differently. But I understand you might think it might scare her off and maybe you are afraid? to then loose her completely? (you don't have to answer that of course, just me speculating). I had a friend who's husband knew from the start she was the one but she did not see him like that at first but because he "stated his case" she began to see him in such "colors" and well now they are married and I can honestly say I've been happy for them, it is a really good relationship. Then again I know how I work by now - if I have been rejected then my feelings, my image of the guy doing that gets me turned off and then I think he's not for me no more even if he later wants me back, I've then moved on, it's like I see them then in a different light - and not the good kind. Games turns me off too.
It is so hard to give advice on romance.

Wishing you can heal from all this and hoping for a better tomorrow for you no matter how it all turns out.

Much kindness

Thank you asearcher!

It was a good talk. Very insightful. I am glad I had it.

Much kindness

You're welcome! Me too. Hope everything works out.

Much kindness