And so you are saying that Atman was never created by Brahman? But that it is just an extra unnecessery word for Brahman?

Well, I agree, but where does change come from then? When there is just brahman then everything simple is... That is nice. But I don't experience everything simply being. Everything is changing all of the time. There is not even one thing in all of the universe that simply.... is... Without relentlessly neverendingly and unceasingly becoming something else.
So how does Brahman bring about change?

Loosely speaking and in dualistic terms I suppose Atman would be considered one's Soul and that works fine for Dvaita, however Advaita will say Atman is Brahman because there is no second. Dvaita and Advaita work off the same source documents.

Since you are Atman and by extension Brahman, you're doing a fine job on your own.

Ok thanks. So atman extension of brahman like fingers are part of the hand I assume. One thing out of all things are made. Now, how or where does change come from? Because brahman and atman simply is... So how come we experience change? Everything constantly changing?

Nononono! :D hahaa I dont want change.

I am asking how does change happen, since brahman is.. simply is.... And suddenly here I am part of brahman. And nothing simply is! Not even one thing is simply being. Its all constantly changing. Every single thing in the universe is in constant never ending motion. How does that change come from Brahman? How does that happen? Brahman simply is and suddenly everything changes never endingly and forever. What happens in between? How did the change come about?

Oh you mean Brahman cannot be known. Well.... In that case we are all doomed. So lets start over again. PUSH THE REST BUTTON! :biggrin:

wow thanks for that reply. That's so deep.

So ur saying the eternal unchanging state of all things are always there but we cannot experience them viscerally vividly and lucidly really unless we create time and space to experience change, right?

There is just Brahman, giving Brahman characteristics is one's ego but that is Brahman too. The mind struggles with that one.

Where does experience come from? What is the 'nature' of experience? The thing is, there are a few things that are talked about in these forums but there seems to be very little of the understanding of how they come about. If you're going to talk about experiences, doesn't it help to know where they come from?

Did you also know that you can become attached to non-attachment? And that detachment can become dissociation, which is a personality issue?

One can experience changing nature and yet never suffer because the changing nature is not the cause of suffering, our response to the changes causes the suffering. The experiences are created by the experiencer, and the experiencer becomes the experiences by way of response.

Hahaha wow thats beautiful thanks. Complete surrender. Feeling completely at ease. Completely open to the ever new unfolding.