Violence.
Why did God condone and order such terrible acts of violence found in the OT? If some believe the Bible to be the ' Word of God ' then you have to believe God was as guilty as the perpetrators or even worse....
A Teenager asked me this question and I answered in my own personal opinion that the OT is not the ' Word of God ' which of course led to more questions and an never-ending conversation which I bowed out off and advised them to do some contemplating.... |
The bible says the Canaanites were wiped out by the Israelites but scientists just found their descendants living in Lebanon.
‘You shall not leave alive anything that breathes. But you shall utterly destroy them’ Well ' God ' got that wrong..... thankfully. |
It's very simple…. The god of the bible is a genocidal sociopath with a narcissistic personality disorder. If you don't live up to his expectations, he'll drown the living sh#t out of you, or he'll have you and your entire family killed and calls it ''divine justice''. The bible itself was probably written by a moron with the same traits.
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Some Christian Schools have banned some verses being taught, this is one amongst many. 1 Corinthians. "Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." Can you imagine the trauma this verse could cause to Children who actually live in these types of environments through no fault of their own... |
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Oh boy, can I imagine. And that's merely the tip of the Iceberg. So in that case they might as well bannish the entire bible from being taught because it inspires nothing but fear, misery, and violence. Sure, one may refer to the teachings of Christ as positive, but the way I see it; in the new testament, God suddenly has a mental breakdown and temporarily becomes that teddy bear type God only to return to his bad habits at the book of revelations when he threatens to destroy the Earth if we don't repent and give praise to him. |
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The problem with swinging a ball-and-chain is that you have to be attached to it to do so. |
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Yes it is definitely the tip of the iceberg. I was reading an article that states suicide rates among LGBT youth is extremely high in those who follow certain Religions, Mormons and Jw's have high proportions, so sad and unnecessary. Something needs to be done about it before more Families are heartbroken. |
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Would people be happy if 1 Corinthians 6:9(b)-10 said: "The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who have sex with men, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, slanderers, swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."? Note that the prelude scriptures to the above scriptures, 1 Corinthians 6:7-9(a) reads: The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? Instead, "You yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters. Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:" Verse 11 makes it clear that those who were 'bad' can inherit the Kingdom where it reads "And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." |
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I personally am not upset by any biblical violence etc : I am more puzzled by the discrepancies. As I don't believe the bible is the ' Word of God ' it has no value for me , but I feel sad for people especially the Youth who do believe and suffer because of the abhorrent verses... |
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Today we live in a society where some people believe that if a good person steals from a wealthy person, it is okay. Figure it out? As terrible as the Bible is claimed to be, in the Old Testament, the poor and widowed were suppose to be taken care of. I only know of one main religion that does that. This practice is now handled by the governments known as welfare. The Old Testament had provisions that every 7 years, certain property rights were restored. The year after 7 of these cycles, 7 X 7 which is 49 plus 1 which is the 50th year, all property rights, even your right to no longer be a slave, were restored. As far as I know, there are no religions that practice any of this but the 7 year cycle is implemented in our bankruptcy laws. |
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I suspect such accounts as the two creation accounts, the two flood accounts, etc. were written in a style that would later be improved on and then used in the Talmud. If I am right, then those accounts are only opinions which makes sense. If you look at the first creation account, Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 2:3, the English Bibles use the expression God whereas in Hebrew, the word is transliterated as Elohim. Then in Genesis 2:4, LORD is used in English but in Hebrew, the word is commonly transliterated as Yahweh. In English, it appears only one person was writing the text, but in Hebrew, it appears that several people were writing using expressions common to each writer. |
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Scientists claim the Neanderthal Man disappeared a long time ago but claim some of us, have up to 4% of their DNA. Is that what happened to the Canaanites' descendants? |
You don't like Christianity, don't follow Christianity!
Have you found something better? Then follow that! Best: don't follow anybody else, just your inner wisdom. Try to find it! Whining about what others do or say won't take you ahead, for sure. Why open a thread like this on a forum reserved for Christians? Lack of respect won't take you ahead either. |
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Never heard about freedom of speech? This isn't a ''christians only'' resort of any kind, and all religion and belief systems should be allowed to be criticised, the same way Christians criticise homosexuality and atheists. Cheers... |
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Yes I understand that the truth can hurt, but the violence is there for all to read and being truthful has very little to do with likes or dislikes, it is as it is even if you and others find it disrespectful. I personally find it is very disrespectful to God to even think they are his words.... but to each their own. |
Inavalan, I've noticed a few times now of you trying to police threads. What are you afraid of.
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Try screaming "FIRE" in a theater.... |
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Yes, on the other hand when people take these verses and use them as a tool against a belief system they disagree with it's a full frontal attack and hardly surprising results in some opposition, suck it up! BTW I have no belief violence in the OT or any religion is true about God and its good to question it |
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Then we agree, don't we...? There's no ''attacking'' here, I think this thread brings up very relevant issues in the bible that need to be mentioned. Fact is, the type of God which the bible promotes is awful and no amount of whitewashing is going to change that. Even many non-religious spiritual people try to do the same thing with the bible, only read what they want to read and interpret it in their own way based on wishful thinking. Well in that case, I might as well interpret Mein Kampf the way I see fit and promote it as a good book while glossing over it's true original intentions. |
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We agree. I'm not trying to defend the indefensible in any way, it's just that you will find many individual people in religion using scriptures containing violence who are non-violent and peaceable, who probably rarely read the violent parts and have some way to rationalise them. and there are many ways to rationalise them. You're never going to make those violent parts go away except by promoting the other parts of scripture that reflect a better day at the scribes office, so I don't understand the continued threads like this one. Everyone knows and has read those verses a 1000 times and got their own way of dealing with it, its not like it is new information The average kids bible story book for 5 year olds gets the tone right and shows God in a positive light, we like to tell our kids the truth before they are old enough to get lied to. what's the problem with that? |
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Write whatever you want, and the forum rules allow. There is no free speech to bully, to be disrespectful, to lie ... without consequences. I don't defend Christianity. I don't even follow it. I defend good manners here, and argue against trolling. Nothing personal to you or others who are critical to Christianity, beyond the scope of these posts. |
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As you have the right to express your position, so do I. Why is it okay to bully somebody, and not okay for a bystander to tell you not to? You think your're right in your position discussed in this (misguided) thread. I don't argue that. I argue that you shouldn't do that here, in the Christianity forum. Do it in Strong Opinions! I disdain bullying, aggressiveness, lack of manners, and as everybody else, I have the right to express it, as I do it, in a strong, but polite way! |
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Will your book also become a best seller? |
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You made some really nice points. Today, some people are sadden that the Bible is looked at as a terrible work of fiction. But as we look around, some of the same people claim the police should all be shot, judges are no good, etc. Some people even believe those doing 'bad things' should be rewarded, etc. Times change. |
Sects are inevitably drawn into violence just by the nature of sectarianism, and God is merely a justification for it. It isn't Christianity as such. Christianity is merely an example of how violence is endemic to sectarian ideology. If the ideology was we are people first and all the belief systems are asides, we'd be better off, but religion is given too much importance by the followers, so the 'us and them' is too strong.
The philosopher Said explained that we construct 'the other' as a way of defining ourselves, so we need 'the other' to be bad if we are to be good. without 'the other' we don't know who we are, but we are defined by 'the other' so we draw it ever closer. When it gets too close we start to panic as it dawns on us that we are nothing without them, and we start to kill them to keep them at arms length. But as we annhialate the other we lose the sence of ourselves, so we recreate the other in some form lest we ourselves are annihilated by having nothing against which to define ourselves. We are destructive toward nature in the same way. We construct ourselves as 'other than' the universe, and for the religious, other than God - and in the sense I described above we are literally at His mercy. The psychoanalyst Lacan spoke of the 'big other' and said we're closer than anything to it. If we are nothing but that against which we define ourselves we are headed toward inevitable annihilation. This is because we are not in fact christians and muslims or australians or americans. It's all just a story about me. It's manufactured imaginatively but it becomes a fundamental delusion. To see the delusion is to be annihilated, but Lacan's view was this annihilation is essential for overcoming the psychosis. |
֍.... Ɣҿᵲy nɩcҿ ꞓⱺɱɱҿnt..... ֎ |
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Dear sky123, I see God as something bigger than the word, and I don’t follow Christianity in its modern day mainstream form, which I find to be dogmatic and fear based in many cases, but I do believe in God, for lack of a better word. But his was borne of experience. In the past, when I sought more, I would put aside that which did not resonate and left others to their devices (for the most part :smile: ) Namaste, Jl |
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Who or what do you think is being bullied here, god, the bible or christians? As you mentioned the forum rules, it's HQ's job to police threads. If you think someone is trolling and feel the need to report, report. |
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' be disrespectful, to lie ' When you don't like the truth it's often seen as disrespect and lie's. |
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You might like this BigJohn, the big gun's of the philosopher Plotinus taking aim at the 3rd century Gnostics, some interesting patterns with today's 'zeitgeist'. http://trisagionseraph.tripod.com/Texts/Plotinus5.html Quote:
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Sorry to say, but this is a little bit delusional. If you are already aware that me and the few others who are criticising Christianity here aren't doing any of these things you mention, what's the point of 'defending good manners' when nothing happened? Are you the secret SF morality police? |
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Morality. Principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behaviour. Discrimination against LGBS is wrong and Violence is wrong and it's very much part of some Christian beliefs as to being right because it's written in the Bible. The truth hurts sometimes but I believe Christians need to stand up and shout from the rafters that these Teachings are inhumane and have no place in Christianity. We have Pope Francis declaring that Gay Men cannot be allowed to enter the Priesthood, then he declares that Homosexuals should not be discriminated against.... One statement contradicts the other. |
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Fortunately there is such a thing as liberal Christians. In the place where I work (a monastery) there is no discrimination against LGBT and homosexuality and most uphold a more realistic interpretation of the bible rather than a literal one. I even know a former monk who was gay, but he left on his own choice rather than being discriminated against. |
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Yes there are liberal Christians I agree and these are the ones that are more in line with what a Christian should be. You will know them by their fruits comes to mind. Your very lucky to work in a Monastery which sounds like a loving environment, but not all are like this and a Gay Monk wouldn't be tolerated in some which is sad and hurtful and discriminating. I feel so sorry for the LGBT who are brought up in some strict so called Religious homes and attend Schools which teach hell and damnation, although a lot of biblical teachings do seem to be getting banned slowly, but better late than never I suppose. |
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I think the place where I work is rather rare when it comes to catholics. I bet your average local church are not as advanced as this monastery (yet) but maybe that might happen sometime in the future. I mean, compared to Islam Christianity evolved quit a lot to the point they dont burn people at the stake anymore, so that's at least one major improvement. But obviously there's quite some more things to work on such as fundamentalism and attitude towards LGBT people and atheists. |
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Did you make that up yourself...cuz wow! :thumbsup: |
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Strong Opinions with 'Asking Christians' in the subject could have been better - but here we are. But, gee, the question was sincere - whatdoya say to a teen, as a Christian? I do really think the bigger question would be-- why did early people think that He called for atrocities? And that could be easy to answer - early superstitious minds were pretty fearful of their own shadow- a comet - the way the smoke blew. Blame and fear and wars were the order of the day! Thunder? Better get a goat to kill to appease this God in the Sky! Volcano? On the other side of the world? Better throw, a virgin in to stop it! (Kill) See? These early people didn't know where the sun went when it set. But, we are to believe their superstitious interpretations of things. They told stories around campfires, bless their little hearts, based on early beliefs based in fear. And many were in barbaric, slaughtering, warring tribes...so they projected their ideas onto what God must be like---like them! Will this be opposite of what today's Christians believe that God is a jealous, murdering monster, that still casts good, kind people that are unbelievers in an eternal lake of fire? Sure. And this will offend them. But to others He is Love beyond imagination and never did those things. And yes, I wish I was saying this in General Beliefs. But the moderators have not moved this there, yet. Is this section 'just' for firm believers in the entire Bible? I dunno... Not my call. |
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Please stop watching fake news, John... |
don't worry all will be ok
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