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-   -   Violence. (https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=131817)

sky 13-10-2019 09:05 AM

Violence.
 
Why did God condone and order such terrible acts of violence found in the OT? If some believe the Bible to be the ' Word of God ' then you have to believe God was as guilty as the perpetrators or even worse....

A Teenager asked me this question and I answered in my own personal opinion that the OT is not the ' Word of God ' which of course led to more questions and an never-ending conversation which I bowed out off and advised them to do some contemplating....

sky 13-10-2019 10:57 AM

The bible says the Canaanites were wiped out by the Israelites but scientists just found their descendants living in Lebanon.



‘You shall not leave alive anything that breathes. But you shall utterly destroy them’


Well ' God ' got that wrong..... thankfully.

Dargor 13-10-2019 11:01 AM

It's very simple…. The god of the bible is a genocidal sociopath with a narcissistic personality disorder. If you don't live up to his expectations, he'll drown the living sh#t out of you, or he'll have you and your entire family killed and calls it ''divine justice''. The bible itself was probably written by a moron with the same traits.

sky 13-10-2019 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight
It's very simple…. The god of the bible is a genocidal sociopath with a narcissistic personality disorder. If you don't live up to his expectations, he'll drown the living sh#t out of you, or he'll have you and your entire family killed and calls it ''divine justice''. The bible itself was probably written by a moron with the same traits.




Some Christian Schools have banned some verses being taught, this is one amongst many.


1 Corinthians.

"Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Can you imagine the trauma this verse could cause to Children who actually live in these types of environments through no fault of their own...

Dargor 13-10-2019 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky123
Some Christian Schools have banned some verses being taught, this is one amongst many.


1 Corinthians.

"Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Can you imagine the trauma this verse could cause to Children who actually live in these types of environments through no fault of their own...


Oh boy, can I imagine. And that's merely the tip of the Iceberg. So in that case they might as well bannish the entire bible from being taught because it inspires nothing but fear, misery, and violence. Sure, one may refer to the teachings of Christ as positive, but the way I see it; in the new testament, God suddenly has a mental breakdown and temporarily becomes that teddy bear type God only to return to his bad habits at the book of revelations when he threatens to destroy the Earth if we don't repent and give praise to him.

Jyotir 13-10-2019 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky123
Why did God condone and order such terrible acts of violence found in the OT? If some believe the Bible to be the ' Word of God ' then you have to believe God was as guilty as the perpetrators or even worse....

A Teenager asked me this question and I answered in my own personal opinion that the OT is not the ' Word of God ' which of course led to more questions and an never-ending conversation which I bowed out off and advised them to do some contemplating....

The problem with swinging a ball-and-chain is that you have to be attached to it to do so.

Contemplate that.


~ J

sky 13-10-2019 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight
Oh boy, can I imagine. And that's merely the tip of the Iceberg. So in that case they might as well bannish the entire bible from being taught because it inspires nothing but fear, misery, and violence. Sure, one may refer to the teachings of Christ as positive, but the way I see it; in the new testament, God suddenly has a mental breakdown and temporarily becomes that teddy bear type God only to return to his bad habits at the book of revelations when he threatens to destroy the Earth if we don't repent and give praise to him.



Yes it is definitely the tip of the iceberg. I was reading an article that states suicide rates among LGBT youth is extremely high in those who follow certain Religions, Mormons and Jw's have high proportions, so sad and unnecessary. Something needs to be done about it before more Families are heartbroken.

BigJohn 13-10-2019 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky123
Some Christian Schools have banned some verses being taught, this is one amongst many.


1 Corinthians.

"Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Can you imagine the trauma this verse could cause to Children who actually live in these types of environments through no fault of their own...

Would people be happy if 1 Corinthians 6:9(b)-10 said:

"The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who have sex with men, thieves,
the greedy, drunkards, slanderers, swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."?


Note that the prelude scriptures to the above scriptures, 1 Corinthians 6:7-9(a) reads:

The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? Instead, "You yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters. Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:"

Verse 11 makes it clear that those who were 'bad' can inherit the Kingdom where it reads

"And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."

sky 13-10-2019 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn
Would people be happy if 1 Corinthians 6:9(b)-10 said:

"The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who have sex with men, thieves,
the greedy, drunkards, slanderers, swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."?


Note that the prelude scriptures to the above scriptures, 1 Corinthians 6:7-9(a) reads:

The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? Instead, "You yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters. Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:"

Verse 11 makes it clear that those who were 'bad' can inherit the Kingdom where it reads

"And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."





I personally am not upset by any biblical violence etc : I am more puzzled by the discrepancies. As I don't believe the bible is the ' Word of God ' it has no value for me , but I feel sad for people especially the Youth who do believe and suffer because of the abhorrent verses...

BigJohn 13-10-2019 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky123
I personally am not upset by any biblical violence etc : I am more puzzled by the discrepancies. As I don't believe the bible is the ' Word of God ' it has no value for me , but I feel sad for people especially the Youth who do believe and suffer because of the abhorrent verses...

Today we live in a society where some people believe that if a good person steals from a wealthy person, it is okay. Figure it out?

As terrible as the Bible is claimed to be, in the Old Testament, the poor and widowed were suppose to be taken care of. I only know of one main religion that does that. This practice is now handled by the governments known as welfare.

The Old Testament had provisions that every 7 years, certain property rights were restored. The year after 7 of these cycles, 7 X 7 which is 49 plus 1 which is the 50th year, all property rights, even your right to no longer be a slave, were restored. As far as I know, there are no religions that practice any of this but the 7 year cycle is implemented in our bankruptcy laws.

BigJohn 13-10-2019 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky123
Why did God condone and order such terrible acts of violence found in the OT? If some believe the Bible to be the ' Word of God ' then you have to believe God was as guilty as the perpetrators or even worse....

A Teenager asked me this question and I answered in my own personal opinion that the OT is not the ' Word of God ' which of course led to more questions and an never-ending conversation which I bowed out off and advised them to do some contemplating....

I suspect such accounts as the two creation accounts, the two flood accounts, etc. were written in a style that would later be improved on and then used in the Talmud. If I am right, then those accounts are only opinions which makes sense.

If you look at the first creation account, Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 2:3, the English Bibles use the expression God whereas in Hebrew, the word is transliterated as Elohim. Then in Genesis 2:4, LORD is used in English but in Hebrew, the word is commonly transliterated as Yahweh. In English, it appears only one person was writing the text, but in Hebrew, it appears that several people were writing using expressions common to each writer.

BigJohn 13-10-2019 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky123
The bible says the Canaanites were wiped out by the Israelites but scientists just found their descendants living in Lebanon.



‘You shall not leave alive anything that breathes. But you shall utterly destroy them’


Well ' God ' got that wrong..... thankfully.

Scientists claim the Neanderthal Man disappeared a long time ago but claim some of us,
have up to 4% of their DNA. Is that what happened to the Canaanites' descendants?

inavalan 13-10-2019 07:25 PM

You don't like Christianity, don't follow Christianity!

Have you found something better? Then follow that!

Best: don't follow anybody else, just your inner wisdom. Try to find it!

Whining about what others do or say won't take you ahead, for sure.

Why open a thread like this on a forum reserved for Christians? Lack of respect won't take you ahead either.

Dargor 13-10-2019 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inavalan
You don't like Christianity, don't follow Christianity!

Have you found something better? Then follow that!

Best: don't follow anybody else, just your inner wisdom. Try to find it!

Whining about what others do or say won't take you ahead, for sure.

Why open a thread like this on a forum reserved for Christians? Lack of respect won't take you ahead either.


Never heard about freedom of speech? This isn't a ''christians only'' resort of any kind, and all religion and belief systems should be allowed to be criticised, the same way Christians criticise homosexuality and atheists. Cheers...

sky 13-10-2019 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inavalan
You don't like Christianity, don't follow Christianity!

Have you found something better? Then follow that!

Best: don't follow anybody else, just your inner wisdom. Try to find it!

Whining about what others do or say won't take you ahead, for sure.

Why open a thread like this on a forum reserved for Christians? Lack of respect won't take you ahead either.




Yes I understand that the truth can hurt, but the violence is there for all to read and being truthful has very little to do with likes or dislikes, it is as it is even if you and others find it disrespectful. I personally find it is very disrespectful to God to even think they are his words.... but to each their own.

JosephineB 13-10-2019 08:35 PM

Inavalan, I've noticed a few times now of you trying to police threads. What are you afraid of.

BigJohn 13-10-2019 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight
Never heard about freedom of speech? This isn't a ''christians only'' resort of any kind, and all religion and belief systems should be allowed to be criticised, the same way Christians criticise homosexuality and atheists. Cheers...

Try screaming "FIRE" in a theater....

davidmartin 13-10-2019 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight
Never heard about freedom of speech? This isn't a ''christians only'' resort of any kind, and all religion and belief systems should be allowed to be criticised, the same way Christians criticise homosexuality and atheists. Cheers...


Yes, on the other hand when people take these verses and use them as a tool against a belief system they disagree with it's a full frontal attack and hardly surprising results in some opposition, suck it up!
BTW I have no belief violence in the OT or any religion is true about God and its good to question it

Dargor 13-10-2019 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmartin
Yes, on the other hand when people take these verses and use them as a tool against a belief system they disagree with it's a full frontal attack and hardly surprising results in some opposition, suck it up!
BTW I have no belief violence in the OT or any religion is true about God and its good to question it


Then we agree, don't we...? There's no ''attacking'' here, I think this thread brings up very relevant issues in the bible that need to be mentioned. Fact is, the type of God which the bible promotes is awful and no amount of whitewashing is going to change that. Even many non-religious spiritual people try to do the same thing with the bible, only read what they want to read and interpret it in their own way based on wishful thinking. Well in that case, I might as well interpret Mein Kampf the way I see fit and promote it as a good book while glossing over it's true original intentions.

davidmartin 14-10-2019 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight
Then we agree, don't we...? There's no ''attacking'' here, I think this thread brings up very relevant issues in the bible that need to be mentioned. Fact is, the type of God which the bible promotes is awful and no amount of whitewashing is going to change that. Even many non-religious spiritual people try to do the same thing with the bible, only read what they want to read and interpret it in their own way based on wishful thinking. Well in that case, I might as well interpret Mein Kampf the way I see fit and promote it as a good book while glossing over it's true original intentions.


We agree. I'm not trying to defend the indefensible in any way, it's just that you will find many individual people in religion using scriptures containing violence who are non-violent and peaceable, who probably rarely read the violent parts and have some way to rationalise them. and there are many ways to rationalise them. You're never going to make those violent parts go away except by promoting the other parts of scripture that reflect a better day at the scribes office, so I don't understand the continued threads like this one. Everyone knows and has read those verses a 1000 times and got their own way of dealing with it, its not like it is new information
The average kids bible story book for 5 year olds gets the tone right and shows God in a positive light, we like to tell our kids the truth before they are old enough to get lied to. what's the problem with that?

inavalan 14-10-2019 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight
Never heard about freedom of speech? This isn't a ''christians only'' resort of any kind, and all religion and belief systems should be allowed to be criticised, the same way Christians criticise homosexuality and atheists. Cheers...

You misunderstood what I wrote, and went off the ... message.

Write whatever you want, and the forum rules allow. There is no free speech to bully, to be disrespectful, to lie ... without consequences.

I don't defend Christianity. I don't even follow it. I defend good manners here, and argue against trolling.

Nothing personal to you or others who are critical to Christianity, beyond the scope of these posts.

inavalan 14-10-2019 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky123
Yes I understand that the truth can hurt, but the violence is there for all to read and being truthful has very little to do with likes or dislikes, it is as it is even if you and others find it disrespectful. I personally find it is very disrespectful to God to even think they are his words.... but to each their own.

See above.

inavalan 14-10-2019 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JosephineBloggs
Inavalan, I've noticed a few times now of you trying to police threads. What are you afraid of.

See above.

As you have the right to express your position, so do I. Why is it okay to bully somebody, and not okay for a bystander to tell you not to?

You think your're right in your position discussed in this (misguided) thread. I don't argue that. I argue that you shouldn't do that here, in the Christianity forum. Do it in Strong Opinions!

I disdain bullying, aggressiveness, lack of manners, and as everybody else, I have the right to express it, as I do it, in a strong, but polite way!

BigJohn 14-10-2019 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight
........ Well in that case, I might as well interpret Mein Kampf the way I see fit and promote it as a good book while glossing over it's true original intentions.

Will your book also become a best seller?

BigJohn 14-10-2019 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmartin
We agree. I'm not trying to defend the indefensible in any way, it's just that you will find many individual people in religion using scriptures containing violence who are non-violent and peaceable, who probably rarely read the violent parts and have some way to rationalise them. and there are many ways to rationalise them. You're never going to make those violent parts go away except by promoting the other parts of scripture that reflect a better day at the scribes office, so I don't understand the continued threads like this one. Everyone knows and has read those verses a 1000 times and got their own way of dealing with it, its not like it is new information
The average kids bible story book for 5 year olds gets the tone right and shows God in a positive light, we like to tell our kids the truth before they are old enough to get lied to. what's the problem with that?

You made some really nice points.

Today, some people are sadden that the Bible is looked at as a terrible work of fiction.
But as we look around, some of the same people claim the police should all be shot,
judges are no good, etc. Some people even believe those doing 'bad things' should be rewarded, etc.

Times change.

Gem 14-10-2019 02:32 AM

Sects are inevitably drawn into violence just by the nature of sectarianism, and God is merely a justification for it. It isn't Christianity as such. Christianity is merely an example of how violence is endemic to sectarian ideology. If the ideology was we are people first and all the belief systems are asides, we'd be better off, but religion is given too much importance by the followers, so the 'us and them' is too strong.


The philosopher Said explained that we construct 'the other' as a way of defining ourselves, so we need 'the other' to be bad if we are to be good. without 'the other' we don't know who we are, but we are defined by 'the other' so we draw it ever closer. When it gets too close we start to panic as it dawns on us that we are nothing without them, and we start to kill them to keep them at arms length. But as we annhialate the other we lose the sence of ourselves, so we recreate the other in some form lest we ourselves are annihilated by having nothing against which to define ourselves.


We are destructive toward nature in the same way. We construct ourselves as 'other than' the universe, and for the religious, other than God - and in the sense I described above we are literally at His mercy.


The psychoanalyst Lacan spoke of the 'big other' and said we're closer than anything to it. If we are nothing but that against which we define ourselves we are headed toward inevitable annihilation. This is because we are not in fact christians and muslims or australians or americans. It's all just a story about me. It's manufactured imaginatively but it becomes a fundamental delusion. To see the delusion is to be annihilated, but Lacan's view was this annihilation is essential for overcoming the psychosis.

BigJohn 14-10-2019 03:32 AM

֍.... Ɣҿᵲy nɩcҿ ꞓⱺɱɱҿnt..... ֎

janielee 14-10-2019 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky123
Why did God condone and order such terrible acts of violence found in the OT? If some believe the Bible to be the ' Word of God ' then you have to believe God was as guilty as the perpetrators or even worse....

A Teenager asked me this question and I answered in my own personal opinion that the OT is not the ' Word of God ' which of course led to more questions and an never-ending conversation which I bowed out off and advised them to do some contemplating....


Dear sky123,

I see God as something bigger than the word, and I don’t follow Christianity in its modern day mainstream form, which I find to be dogmatic and fear based in many cases, but I do believe in God, for lack of a better word. But his was borne of experience. In the past, when I sought more, I would put aside that which did not resonate and left others to their devices (for the most part :smile: )

Namaste,

Jl

JosephineB 14-10-2019 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inavalan
See above.

As you have the right to express your position, so do I. Why is it okay to bully somebody, and not okay for a bystander to tell you not to?

You think your're right in your position discussed in this (misguided) thread. I don't argue that. I argue that you shouldn't do that here, in the Christianity forum. Do it in Strong Opinions!

I disdain bullying, aggressiveness, lack of manners, and as everybody else, I have the right to express it, as I do it, in a strong, but polite way!


Who or what do you think is being bullied here, god, the bible or christians?

As you mentioned the forum rules, it's HQ's job to police threads. If you think someone is trolling and feel the need to report, report.

sky 15-10-2019 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inavalan
You misunderstood what I wrote, and went off the ... message.

Write whatever you want, and the forum rules allow. There is no free speech to bully, to be disrespectful, to lie ... without consequences.

I don't defend Christianity. I don't even follow it. I defend good manners here, and argue against trolling.

Nothing personal to you or others who are critical to Christianity, beyond the scope of these posts.





' be disrespectful, to lie '


When you don't like the truth it's often seen as disrespect and lie's.

davidmartin 15-10-2019 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn
You made some really nice points.

Today, some people are sadden that the Bible is looked at as a terrible work of fiction.
But as we look around, some of the same people claim the police should all be shot,
judges are no good, etc. Some people even believe those doing 'bad things' should be rewarded, etc.

Times change.


You might like this BigJohn, the big gun's of the philosopher Plotinus taking aim at the 3rd century Gnostics, some interesting patterns with today's 'zeitgeist'.

http://trisagionseraph.tripod.com/Texts/Plotinus5.html

Quote:

Their error is that they know nothing good here: all they care for is something else to which they will at some future time apply themselves: yet, this world, to those that have known it once, must be the starting-point of the pursuit: arrived here from out of the divine nature, they must inaugurate their effort by some earthly correction. The understanding of beauty is not given except to a nature scorning the delight of the body, and those that have no part in well-doing can make no step towards the Supernal.

This school, in fact, is convicted by its neglect of all mention of virtue: any discussion of such matters is missing utterly: we are not told what virtue is or under what different kinds it appears; there is no word of all the numerous and noble reflections upon it that have come down to us from the ancients; we do not learn what constitutes it or how it is acquired, how the Soul is tended, how it is cleaned. For to say “Look to God” is not helpful without some instruction as to what this looking imports: it might very well be said that one can “look” and still sacrifice no pleasure, still be the slave of impulse, repeating the word God but held in the grip of every passion and making no effort to master any. Virtue, advancing towards the Term and, linked with thought, occupying a Soul makes God manifest: God on the lips, without a good conduct of life, is a word.

16. On the other hand, to despise this Sphere, and the Gods within it or anything else that is lovely, is not the way to goodness.

Every evil-doer began by despising the Gods; and one not previously corrupt, taking to this contempt, even though in other respects not wholly bad, becomes an evil-doer by the very fact

We must recognize that other men have attained the heights of goodness; we must admit the goodness of the celestial spirits, and above all of the gods — those whose presence is here but their contemplation in the Supreme, and loftiest of them, the lord of this All, the most blessed Soul. Rising still higher, we hymn the divinities of the Intellectual Sphere, and, above all these, the mighty King of that dominion, whose majesty is made patent in the very multitude of the gods.

It is not by crushing the divine unto a unity but by displaying its exuberance — as the Supreme himself has displayed it — that we show knowledge of the might of God, who, abidingly what He is, yet creates that multitude, all dependent on Him, existing by Him and from Him.

This Universe, too, exists by Him and looks to Him — the Universe as a whole and every God within it — and tells of Him to men, all alike revealing the plan and will of the Supreme.

These, in the nature of things, cannot be what He is, but that does not justify you in contempt of them, in pushing yourself forward as not inferior to them.

The more perfect the man, the more compliant he is, even towards his fellows; we must temper our importance, not thrusting insolently beyond what our nature warrants; we must allow other beings, also, their place in the presence of the Godhead; we may not set ourselves alone next after the First in a dream-flight which deprives us of our power of attaining identity with the Godhead in the measure possible to the human Soul, that is to say, to the point of likeness to which the Intellectual-Principle leads us; to exalt ourselves above the Intellectual-Principle is to fall from it.

Yet imbeciles are found to accept such teaching at the mere sound of the words “You, yourself, are to be nobler than all else, nobler than men, nobler than even gods.” Human audacity is very great: a man once modest, restrained and simple hears, “You, yourself, are the child of God; those men whom you used to venerate, those beings whose worship they inherit from antiquity, none of these are His children; you without lifting a hand are nobler than the very heavens”; others take up the cry: the issue will be much as if in a crowd all equally ignorant of figures, one man were told that he stands a thousand cubic feet; he will naturally accept his thousand cubits even though the others present are said to measure only five cubits; he will merely tell himself that the thousand indicates a considerable figure.


Dargor 15-10-2019 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inavalan
You misunderstood what I wrote, and went off the ... message.

Write whatever you want, and the forum rules allow. There is no free speech to bully, to be disrespectful, to lie ... without consequences.

I don't defend Christianity. I don't even follow it. I defend good manners here, and argue against trolling.

Nothing personal to you or others who are critical to Christianity, beyond the scope of these posts.


Sorry to say, but this is a little bit delusional. If you are already aware that me and the few others who are criticising Christianity here aren't doing any of these things you mention, what's the point of 'defending good manners' when nothing happened? Are you the secret SF morality police?

sky 15-10-2019 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight
Sorry to say, but this is a little bit delusional. If you are already aware that me and the few others who are criticising Christianity here aren't doing any of these things you mention, what's the point of 'defending good manners' when nothing happened? Are you the secret SF morality police?




Morality.
Principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behaviour.


Discrimination against LGBS is wrong and Violence is wrong and it's very much part of some Christian beliefs as to being right because it's written in the Bible.
The truth hurts sometimes but I believe Christians need to stand up and shout from the rafters that these Teachings are inhumane and have no place in Christianity.



We have Pope Francis declaring that Gay Men cannot be allowed to enter the Priesthood, then he declares that Homosexuals should not be discriminated against.... One statement contradicts the other.

Dargor 15-10-2019 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky123
Morality.
Principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behaviour.


Discrimination against LGBS is wrong and Violence is wrong and it's very much part of some Christian beliefs as to being right because it's written in the Bible.
The truth hurts sometimes but I believe Christians need to stand up and shout from the rafters that these Teachings are inhumane and have no place in Christianity.



We have Pope Francis declaring that Gay Men cannot be allowed to enter the Priesthood, then he declares that Homosexuals should not be discriminated against.... One statement goes against the other.


Fortunately there is such a thing as liberal Christians. In the place where I work (a monastery) there is no discrimination against LGBT and homosexuality and most uphold a more realistic interpretation of the bible rather than a literal one. I even know a former monk who was gay, but he left on his own choice rather than being discriminated against.

sky 15-10-2019 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight
Fortunately there is such a thing as liberal Christians. In the place where I work (a monastery) there is no discrimination against LGBT and homosexuality and most uphold a more realistic interpretation of the bible rather than a literal one. I even know a former monk who was gay, but he left on his own choice rather than being discriminated against.



Yes there are liberal Christians I agree and these are the ones that are more in line with what a Christian should be. You will know them by their fruits comes to mind.
Your very lucky to work in a Monastery which sounds like a loving environment, but not all are like this and a Gay Monk wouldn't be tolerated in some which is sad and hurtful and discriminating. I feel so sorry for the LGBT who are brought up in some strict so called Religious homes and attend Schools which teach hell and damnation, although a lot of biblical teachings do seem to be getting banned slowly, but better late than never I suppose.

Dargor 15-10-2019 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky123
Yes there are liberal Christians I agree and these are the ones that are more in line with what a Christian should be. You will know them by their fruits comes to mind.
Your very lucky to work in a Monastery which sounds like a loving environment, but not all are like this and a Gay Monk wouldn't be tolerated in some which is sad and hurtful and discriminating. I feel so sorry for the LGBT who are brought up in some strict so called Religious homes and attend Schools which teach hell and damnation, although a lot of biblical teachings do seem to be getting banned slowly, but better late than never I suppose.


I think the place where I work is rather rare when it comes to catholics. I bet your average local church are not as advanced as this monastery (yet) but maybe that might happen sometime in the future. I mean, compared to Islam Christianity evolved quit a lot to the point they dont burn people at the stake anymore, so that's at least one major improvement. But obviously there's quite some more things to work on such as fundamentalism and attitude towards LGBT people and atheists.

Miss Hepburn 15-10-2019 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jyotir
The problem with swinging a ball-and-chain is that you have to be attached to it to do so.

Did you make that up yourself...cuz wow! :thumbsup:
If I use it I just wanted to be able to give the right person credit.

Miss Hepburn 15-10-2019 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky123
Why did God condone and order such terrible acts of violence found in the OT?

I don't want to be disrespectful to the Christianity area- sure General Beliefs,
Strong Opinions with 'Asking Christians' in the subject could have been better - but here we are.
But, gee, the question was sincere - whatdoya say to a teen, as a Christian?

I do really think the bigger question would be--
why did early people think that He called for atrocities?

And that could be easy to answer - early superstitious minds were pretty fearful of their own shadow- a comet - the way the smoke blew.
Blame and fear and wars were the order of the day!

Thunder? Better get a goat to kill to appease this God in the Sky!
Volcano? On the other side of the world? Better throw, a virgin in to stop it! (Kill)

See?
These early people didn't know where the sun went when it set.
But, we are to believe their superstitious interpretations of things.

They told stories around campfires, bless their little hearts, based on early beliefs based in fear.
And many were in barbaric, slaughtering, warring tribes...so
they projected their ideas onto what God must be like---like them!

Will this be opposite of what today's Christians believe that God is a jealous, murdering monster, that still casts good,
kind people that are unbelievers in an eternal lake of fire? Sure.
And this will offend them.

But to others He is Love beyond imagination and never did those things.
And yes, I wish I was saying this in General Beliefs.
But the moderators have not moved this there, yet.
Is this section 'just' for firm believers in the entire Bible? I dunno...
Not my call.




janielee 15-10-2019 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn
You made some really nice points.

Today, some people are sadden that the Bible is looked at as a terrible work of fiction.
But as we look around, some of the same people claim the police should all be shot,
judges are no good, etc. Some people even believe those doing 'bad things' should be rewarded, etc.

Times change.


Please stop watching fake news, John...

davidmartin 15-10-2019 10:21 PM

don't worry all will be ok


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