Yes I know from my Ancestor John who would have done more good alive than dead, pointless barbaric actions.

Sky123,

50 years more or less ?……:)

You choose :biggrin:

BigJohn,
If one does not believe that Jesus existed then he must consider the possibility of this being a myth. In that case we must abandon logic , proof and rationality in order to interpret the myth. It demands a totally different approach.

Sky123,
Vague answer ergo vague reasoning ? I make no choice because I accept that we must respond to the circumstances…….:)

i've never understood dyin for one's beliefs. and it's not even that you lose your beliefs, you just tell them what they wanna hear. no idea what the big deal is. ego i guess. some king asks me to sware allegiance or be killed i'd sware allegiance and go about my life doin the same stuff i always do! but yea i can't go into some church so i'll sit under a tree makes no difference to me. god is everywhere

Let's not go off on the idea IF he existed, pls, ok!
Whole other topic!!!

well that may be wrong. if jesus had not been killed history would have been completely different. it's very possible Christianity may not exist in that time line. imagine if the romans said, yea teach whatever you want we don't care and the jews as well. we might have never heard of jesus. one reason the gospels were written was because of the dramatic death of a popular guru. if he had not died, the motivation to write about him would not have been there and jesus himself had no interest in writing down stuff or in starting a religion.

imagine if jesus lived to 85.... peter would be like, "hey lets start a religion" and jesus would say, "nah don't worry bout that stuff just love love love!"

it's such a complicated subject the "jesus died for our sins" idea and not only complicated just here. there has been huge philosophic debate on that topic for centuries within Christianity. about what it all means

i see it very simply. jesus did not die of natural causes. humans killed him. to kill is a sin. so jesus died for our sins. because of our sins.

Now, I suppose this could spin off into ...Can another pay for another's sins with his life?
"Pay."
Who is he paying? God? The Supreme Spirit of all Creation?
Why would God want someone's death --especially a brutal death?
Why would He want a dead goat?
Why would a volcano stop by throwing a virgin in?
These question are all the same to me.
(And basically rhetorical.)