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ImthatIm 03-02-2021 03:18 PM

sentient

Quote:

Well – don’t be disheartened. REALLY.


Alright... I won't, it has been sometime(2003 or so) since I read that the surname
(Renick) probably derived and came from the Rhine river region.
I picked up from my Grandmothers research that she done in the late 70s.
I figured I would see what the inter-webs could reveal.(Not much without forking over frog skins) ($).


I place all this tracing bloodline on the same lines as previous lives.
When it is time and important enough the Higher Powers will put it in front of me and align it and it will be unavoidable.
It seems the Powers that be, want me dealing with issues that over-feed the Dark wolf.(Blackroad)
Learning to keep walking in the NOW energies of Life.(Redroad and health) Learning to Live in Peace.


My wifes new found uncle (He was adopted out from fam.) had a DNA test recently. None of his Native DNA came up. It was obvious that He was her uncle
the first time we seen him. No doubt. Now he has no legal standing with the tribe and it has messed with His abandonment issues. Sad deal.
Which has lead me to further mistrust DNA companies accuracy.

ImthatIm 03-02-2021 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sentient
Yeah. Yakut, Mongol, Uralic etc. shamen used heaps of metal in their regalia:


And then there was this development:


*





That regalia is quite incredible, and that is a whole lot of metal.
Lots of bells too I see.
Which has me bringing up this statement of yours.
I have not heard anything like it.
Quote:

“Sound as Bell” practices imo. Very important to keep alive.
"Sound as bell" practices????

sentient 03-02-2021 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImthatIm
"Sound as bell" practices????

I have only watched – what … 3? Oren Lyons youtubes, yet in them, here and there he says things that pricked up my ears. He really seems to be talking from an indigenous perspective – not only local but in a general sense also.

Quote:

About the Tree of Peace

Bill Moyers:
Every part of that painting is a symbol.

Oren Lyons:
Yes. When the Peacemaker had planted the Tree of Peace, he placed the eagle in the top. And the eagle would belong to everyone and the eagle would sit there in vigilance and watch and would scream when things were coming towards the tree. He said that there will come a time when this tree will be attacked.
We can look at that at this time or we could have looked at it in 1776 or we could have looked at it in 1620, when it has come under attack. Today, it's still here. The tree is still standing and we, the chiefs of the Long House, are dedicated to its continuance and to its future.

Bill Moyers:
When you say the tree is still here, you mean spiritually?

Oren Lyons:
Spiritually. Yes. It was a spiritual tree to begin with. Because again, people are so literal. It's hard at times to have a discussion with people who think in linear terms. Because they say, "We come to see the tree." And we say, "It's a great tree. It reaches to the heavens. You can't see it. You can't see it? We can see it." But it's there. And it's very real. And again, as we were told, sometimes the most real things you can't see.

One could say the same thing about the mythological World Pole. It is here. It is very real. It is functional. And again, sometimes the most real things are those you cannot see.

*

In this day and age of fake medicine men, plastic shamen, new age fantasy worlds, whatnot, people can say things that just do not sound right, the words do not have the ‘right echo’ or the ‘right ring’ to them.

And when a fake shaman say, attaches new meanings and/or extra practices that contradict the original core practice, then they have not understood shamanism in the first place and that new age practice will not be “as sound as a bell” - there will be an odd, distorted 'ring' to it.

P.S. Some Ice Age and after maps:
https://bladehoner.wordpress.com/201...an-migrations/

DNA
The important thing about the DNA test is to get the Raw Data.
The Dna companies will only give one a general ‘reading’, but with that raw data one can start investigating …

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ImthatIm 03-02-2021 10:30 PM

Let me first just give you a big thank you.
Your like a teacher. You have provided a whole bunch of information that
interests me. My big stumbling block is as always trust. I don't know what
to trust so I throw up my hands and walk away.


Thanks for taking the time to answer some questions.
I did not know if "Sound as bell" was a saying or a ceremonial practice.
Thanks for explaining.


That is a bunch of migration information. Wow, I had not really studied any
migration history from that far back.

sentient 04-02-2021 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImthatIm
That is a bunch of migration information. Wow, I had not really studied any
migration history from that far back.

I had not done so either, but this is what happens when you take a DNA-test.

At first, I belonged to various DNA-analysis groups and then I also uploaded my (downloaded) raw dna to this site:
https://blog.genomelink.io/posts/how-to-use-gedmatch

With so many calculators there you will soon discover what % of which migration you are.
They also detect one’s Amerind % more accurately.

Plus, I had mentioned, that with 4 populations African, Asian, European and Amerind I get 12.50% Amerind. (Which % - when Siberian populations are added comes down, because ‘my false Amerind' is hidden in my Siberian ancestry).

Sometimes when Americans get “Volga-Ural” (was it?) or Finland&North Eurasia their “Amerind” might be hidden there, because for a long time DNA analysis could not tell the difference between our false-positive Amerind-dna and real Amerind-dna from Americas.

Why Is My Native American Ancestry Not Showing Up?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geE7zsehccY

And other problems:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyXF_LffAM0

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ImthatIm 04-02-2021 01:27 PM

sentient

Quote:

which is a real shamanic spiritual awakening experience into nonduality. (The experience one has just before Thunderbird swallows one up, which is the shamanic-death-experience).


So I have kind of ignored responding to (shamanic-death-experience)

This resonates with me, but I correlate it to a vision quest.
It maybe incorrect to compare the 2 but none the less they may be similar.

A vision quest is where a medicine person or Holy person
most commonly gets their Power or becomes a medicine person.
(ussually 4 days no food or water and isolated in nature)
A regular person (non medicine man)also starts understanding their gifts or
recieves a vision to live by on vision quest.
All should "go up on the hill/mountain" which is another phrase for vision quest.
I was taught that you either receive your vision or wander about aimlessly.



Though I don't want to violate the rules on dangerous practices here (SF)
but I don't want to keep ignoring the topic either. I see it as most important.
Even though I know nothing of the shamanic death experience.
I wanted to give my opinion and see if they are similar at least in importance.



We call the vision quest "the little death" or "crying for a vision"
This is where you start to get to know or understand your spirit helpers.
Be it animal, ancestor, plant or whatever Life may have in store for an individual.
Maybe receive instruction from Spirit.
Of course these visions/instructions can come in different ways but I understand
this to be the most common way or rite.


Speaking rites, the vision quest is another rite given by
White Buffalo Calf Maiden.


Also I was taught that all peoples at one time had a form of the vision quest.
Alright, I at least acknowledged the shamanic-death-experience and the vision quest.

sentient 04-02-2021 09:20 PM

ImthatIm:

I really needed to hear this “Doctrine of Discovery”:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYZ2rj2Jooc
(A more than 1hr long video):

As one comment says:
Quote:

Now I can understand how the Doctrine of Discovery was applied when Captain Cook "discovered Australia.”
Why Australia was claimed to be "Terra Nullius" (empty, unoccupied wasteland ready to be taken).

Similar things happened to our peoples also, which I wrote here about:
https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/s...&postcount=180

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sentient 04-02-2021 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImthatIm


So I have kind of ignored responding to (shamanic-death-experience)

This resonates with me, but I correlate it to a vision quest.
It maybe incorrect to compare the 2 but none the less they may be similar.

Thank you for sharing vision quest info.

*

On the top of the World Pole sits the Eagle.
It represents Totality. The ALL-seeing-eye, perhaps one could say.

Thunderbird is the Power aspect of that Eagle.

To us Jesus was like a shaman, who died to the ‘separate-self-identity’ and its interests in order to benefit ALL creation.

All shamen were initiated by Thunderbird Eagle.
The gift of manifesting the 'spiritual dimension' came with that 'death'.

*

ImthatIm 04-02-2021 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sentient
ImthatIm:

I really needed to hear this “Doctrine of Discovery”:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYZ2rj2Jooc
(A more than 1hr long video):

As one comment says:

Why Australia was claimed to be "Terra Nullius" (empty, unoccupied wasteland ready to be taken).

Similar things happened to our peoples also, which I wrote here about:
https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/s...&postcount=180

*





Preaching to the choir. i have seen vids. of Mark Charles speak too.


Then throw democracy on top of doctrine of discovery. As told by Oren Lyons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs0EK1z9xhc


I got the Roman stomping on my Irish side too.
The English learned from the Romans how to oppress, I believe.

sentient 11-02-2021 09:26 PM

In the light of the Doctrine of Discovery, I am reviewing my old notes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3gF7ULVrl4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3oc84aLC-Q


Quote:

ABORIGINAL HISTORY

Pre-Contact

1. Land/People
2. Culture
3. Languages


Immigration
Aboriginal people arrived to Australia from S.E. Asia by sea.
(First; - shipwrecked & fishermen perhaps ... about 60 000 - 50 000 years ago).

Early sites of human occupation from 53 000 years ago found in Arnhem Land.
Obviously talented tool-makers, having arrived to Australia by rafts/boats (first in the world,)
but Australian climate, environment, Australia's flora and fauna, raw materials were different than what they were used to, hence "trial and error - school".
Out of these beginnings Aboriginal people developed a highly complex culture & society rules.


Dreamtime Myths & Storytelling Rituals & Rockcarvings
In the Dreamtime Ancestral Spirit Beings, both in their animal & human forms roamed the earth.
They created in their epic adventures the features of the land; - the rivers, the hills, waterholes & rock formations, all species.
They controlled the movement of the sun and the moon, the stars, rain clouds & tides and established Sacred Laws and Customs.


Land Ownwership / Land Rights
People inherited rights to a particular area of land through their fathers ... "Father's Country"... and ideally; - this was an area where the child was conceived as well.
By conception Aboriginal people meant the moment, when a woman first realized that she was pregnant, for this indicated the pool where the child's Spiritual Essence came from. This pool was at or near the track an Ancestral Spirit Being passed through in the Dreamtime, near it's Sacred Sites, which gave the child his Totem = His identity, his connection to the Land and it's Spirit.
These 3 (Person - Land -Spirit) therefore cannot be seen as separate things or concepts.
Men became Custodians of their Sacred Sites in their areas, thus having special rights and obligations to that particular land area.


Land Use
Aboriginal people did not have an agricultural system, they relied totally on natural resources, they were hunter-gatherers.
A person would have a right to hunt and gather in his/her father's country area (which often was his Totem-Spirit-Essence area as well.
Joined, co-ordinated hunting & gathering activities were also organized with neighbouring country-area-groups as well.
Aborigines moved with the seasons within their territory and had indepth knowledge of water & food resources available at any particular time. They had extensive knowledge of the usages of the plants within their territory .... both food and for medicine (or poison). They understood the movement and habits of animals.


Passing The Knowledge
From childhood, stories would be told to connect the child to his/her environment; spiritual as well as physical and social.
As the child grew, these stories would become increasingly more complex, more encompassing.


Kinship System
Aborigines had/have strict rules of behaviour within the family relations, these are called Kinship - Rules.
For example who could marry whom. A man could not talk to his mother-in-law, or any other person he would term as such, nor could she talk to him.
Father's younger brothers were also called fathers and if father died, brother-father would look after the child. Same with mother. Mother's younger sisters were also called mothers.
Often father's older brother would be called a 'Teacher' for he had the responsibility of disciplining his brother's children and teaching them about culture.

When a child grew to puperty, first initiations both for boys and girls would take place.
Boys and girls separately would be taken away from the camp to be trained and prepared for
adulthood.
For girls this moment meant initiation into womanhood & marriage ... for boys this first initiation marked the first step into their Secret-Sacred knowledge about their Spirit Land and its Laws, which men were Custodians of. Many nore initiations would follow.
External signs of initiation include scars on the chest and back, missing front teeth or head-bands.


Law, Authority and Leadership
Initiated men were generally responsible for matters of Law & Order.
Elders, old men, who had gone through all the initiations of the Secret-Sacred knowledge, whom people 'knew' to be wise, who either "owned" or belonged to the local territory, - who had close kinship and ceremonial ties to that particular locality formed "The-Body-of-Elders".
Body-of-Elders had the power and the decison making responsibilities. They also became the 'initiators'.

For example;
- Incest would be punished by death.
- Murder, adultery, sorcery might bring a blood-feud, retaliation
- Lesser offences (injury to others, property) ... spearing
- Gossip & shaming was also a good social control tool

From the wet tropics to the dry inland desets, there are many different climatic changes, "zones" ... areas where unique cultures developed suited to those particular areas of habitation. Therefore generalizing about Aboriginal culture in Australia is often not such a good idea.


Language (Pre-Contact)
Approx. 240 languages spoken.
Approx. 700 dialects.

The reason there were so many languages spoken, is because language is always tied to the land (marks).
When Ancestral Dreamtime Spirit Beings formed the earth, created everything on it ... Where they passed or stopped & went underground or up to heavens, leaving Sacred Sites of their passing or presence behind, there they also named everything, planted a language.
Neighbouring territories might also have the same Spirit Ancestor, which passed through those lands, but at the boarder the Spirit Ancestor changed language.

Therefore ... when a person knows his "Dreaming", he will also know his land, which gives him his language & his identity + his place in the world & his culture.

Aboriginal Culture is thought to be the oldest known culture in the world.


Quote:

Contact (1770 - 1967)

1770 Captain Cook came exploring
He had been given secret orders to carefully observe the land and it's natives and ONLY take posession of any land with the consent of the natives.
And yes, Captain Cook and his crew did make some superficial observations of the land, it's flora and fauna and it's people.
BUT ! The natives consent to take posession of the land was never asked.
If the land was called "TERRA NULLIUS", meaning empty, unhabited wasteland, in such case consent was obviously not needed.

Because there were no signs of farming, permanent housing, no army fleets to meet Captain Cook .....
Australia was conveniently decided by The British Government to be "Terra Nullius".


1788 Arrival of British to Botany Bay - Sydney Cove (Captain Philip)
- Botany Bay at first, but there was no water > Sydney Cove.
- Marks the year of colonization of Australia for British
- Marks the year of INVASION for Aboriginal peoples.



Invaders
White slaves were brought to colonize:
- British and Irish convicts for labour. Australia as "Penal Colony".

Australia was not only being invaded by the British, but it also was being invaded by European animals & plants:
- Domestics as Cows / Sheep / Goats / Pigs / Poultry
- Horse / Donkey / Camel / Buffalo for transport & farmwork
- Cats / Dogs for companions
- Vermin such as Rats / Mice just came along
- To make Australia more beautiful Rabbits & British songbirds were introduced
- For sport and hunting ... Fox
Most of these animals escaped into the wild, still causing much destruction on the land & native flora & fauna.

Europeans also brought with them diseases such as smallbox, measels and influenza.
To these Aboriginal people had no immunity. These diseases spread rapidly and large number of Aborigines died.


Dispossession
As the invaders, both in their human and animal forms started to spread into the country, they seized i.e. took posession of Aboriginal land.



Popular Beliefs at Contact
Aborigines wondered about the white men and often believed them to be reincarnated spirits of their dead clan - members.
Out of British ignorance, suspicion, fear and desire to posess-arrogance; - popular beliefs of the Aborigines conveniently were:
- Most miserable people in the world
- Filthy, ugly
- Lacking of essential human attributes
- Black skin, shark-like teeth ... such hideous appearance could only point to inward dificiency of morality and intelligence.

GOD had commanded man to till the earth and make it fruitful, therefore British had the perfect right, under Divine Authority to go fourth & people & till the land and to take it from the Aborigines, who obviously were far too primitive to understand the proper land use and hence could not be regarded as having any claim whatsoever to the land.



Food - Water
For both, Aborigines and the (human & animal) invaders ... food and water availability was central.
When traditional food source availability was gone from traditional "tribal" hunting territories, there now was cattle and sheep. Aborigines believed it to be their right to hunt those for food.
Squatters in turn wanted to protect their cattle / sheep .... this was the start of conflict.

Many Aboriginal clans died of starvation, not being able to access their food and water supply areas, or in general Aboriginal health started to suffer ... then their societies started to break down.
There was a sense of hopelessness, loss of pride and great confusion.


Massacres, then Systematic Cenocide
Started by poisoning , shooting and hunting Aboriginal people for sport.



Native Police
- From distant territories were bribed to track down other clans.
- They were given best rations, good horses, they could rape women etc.
- They came to be called "Bullymen" and were dispised by their own race.



1816 - Coverner Davis'es Proclamation
Justice system about relations with Aborigines (do this do that).



1838 Mayall Creek Nth NSW
Conflict with Aborigines led to a massacre of Aborigines by shepherds.
Justice was carried out, 5 whites were hanged.
Mayall Creek was the first national news to hit the headlines about relations between whites and blacks and the only place whites were punished.


1858 Horned Bank - QLD
Two Frazer boys took two Aborigine women, whipped them and then raped them (Jiman people).
11 Frazer - family members were killed.
Massacre happened afterwards. Surviving Frazer son (of the quilty 2) spent rest of his life killing Aborigines.
Jiman people no longer exist.


1862 Cullin - La - Ringo
Wills family was killed


1839 Aborigines Preservation & Protection Act


1897 The Protection of Aboriginals & Restriction of The Sale of Opium Act
British conscience started to bite and to salve the situation, British Government decided to "protect" Aborigines i.e. control Aborigines by putting them into reserves.
Media opinion was that Aborigines were infant-like, mentally inferior, not able to look after themselves, therefore they were considered as wards of the Government.
Aborigines were seen as having no culture, no purpose, no history, no laws, no religion.
"Aborigines must be protected from themselves"

Under the Act
Local Police was "the protector of Aborigines"
White people were handled by courts, Aboriginal people by Police Stations.
Police handled arrangements for Aboriginal employment and pay was often held in the police station, only pocket-money was given (the rest sometimes was never seen).



Missions / Reserves
2 Choices (but often forced to move):

1) Traditional life,
Resisting European settlement, thus risking punishment of "Black Crimes" . .
Black Crimes were: Cultural Ceremonies & Storytelling, Dance and travel.
Risking mulnutrition.

2a) Missions
Health / foodrations / protection / education / dormitories / English / religion
& for example needlework for women
All this meant separating Aboriginals from white community.
It ensured that Aboriginals lost all civil rights and were under control.
Suppressions of traditional society organization / religious ceremonies / culture / language

2b) Reserves
1909 Aboriginal reserves were also being established to be under white management.
They often were training camps for servants.
Farmwork for boys and domestic servant training for girls.
Children aged 13 were taken to be sent to white employers
(Managers arranged marriages)
Set wages, but Aboriginal employees often only got pocket money, wages never to be seen.
Employeers were "Masters".
In some reserves mortality was high.
1930's many Reserves closed to release Aboriginal Reserve Land for farming.



1930's
In order to escape "protection", Aboriginal people started to speak out.
It was a time of Depression.
Communist Party was sympathetic to Aboriginal situation as were some other organizations for example 'feminist movement'.

Aboriginal plight started to get media coverage (Newspapers) and support for Aboriginal cause started to spread.
In 1930's first public protests by Aborigines were aiming mainly at wider community's attention to the harsh treatment of Aborigines on reserves and the removal of children from parents ....
People wanted freedom from Protection Act.
People wanted Landrights
People wanted Equal Pay


1950's
In 1950's Aboriginal Organizations began to raise public consciousness.
Aboriginal Organizations like APA: Aboriginal Progressive Association was demanding changes.
Australian Aboriginal League
In 1957 a peak council of such advancement bodies was established and in 1958 renamed as: "FEDERAL COUNCIL FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF ABORIGINES AND TORRES STRAIT ISLANDERS' = "FCAATSI".
Largely as a result of FCAATSI in 1967 a referendum was held to change 2 clauses in the Federal Constitution discriminating against Aborigines.
For the first time Aboriginal people would be counted in national cencus.
This in other words meant that white Australians considered Aborigines to be human beings for the first time.

Quote:


1967 - 1988 Post Contact


"The Assimilation Policy"
- was adopted and began to be implemented in 1960's
To Aboriginal viewpoint this assimilation policy introduced another type of economic control, one which would make Aborigines the menial workforce of the nation, with menial wages, confining them on powerless economic level and therefore to a controllable situation.

From Aboriginal viewpoint; - much time and effort was put into schemes designed to assimilate Aborigines and therefore to rid the nation of the "Aboriginal Problem".
Despite their low socio-economic status, most Aborigines however refused to become assimilated to the low status.

1972 A Labour Government started a new policy of "Self - Determination".
Allocations of money and bureaucratic positions incresed.
A sprinkling of Aborigine males achieved senior positions, the bulk of public service positions were being filled by white males.

"Self - Determination" policy was followed by "Self - Management" policy in the 1980's.
Structures and institutions were established to aid the process, but again, the control and decision - making powers remained in non-Aboriginal hands.


1972 "The Tent Embassy" was set up on the lawns in front of The Parlament House in Canberra to draw attention to the landrights issues.
Governments had provided leases to Aboriginal communities whilst retaining certain powers to resume such lands. The demand for greater security of the title led to legistlation which incorporated the concept of inalienable freehold title held by local Aboriginal corporate bodies.

Year 1988 brought Bicentennial Celebrations marking 200 years of European occupation.


*

Contemporary; -1988 onwards ...


1992 Aboriginal people were recognized as being the first inhabitants of Australia.
This was handed down by the High Court of Australia in what has become known as the "Mabo Decision"

Mabo and others v State of Queensland decision rewrote Australian Law:
- That Australia was not TERRA NULLIUS (land belonging to no one), when settled by the British in 1788, but was occupied by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples, who had their own Laws and Customs.

***

Australian Launch of the International Year for the World's Indigenous People
The speech by the then Prime Minister of Australia, Paul Keating, at Redfern Park in Sydney on 10 December 1992
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6dnDkvdTXA

2008 Australia says SORRY
Australia formally apologised to the Stolen Generations with Prime Minister Kevin Rudd reading a speech in Federal Parliament Feb. 13th 2008 ... speech which was delivered in a heartfelt and genuine manner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Dild-xAzJ0


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