This vid. is for libbyscorp if you wander this way.
Or anyone who cares to listen.
Oren Lyons is a faithkeeper of the Turtle Clan, Onondaga Council of Chiefs, Haudenosaunee
(Six Nations Iroquois Confederacy).(1:11.29 long.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbwSwUMNyPU

Heh, just one word can become like a minefield.
For some the word “chief” is just a language difference, for others it represents a fundamental difference between Western and Indigenous thought.


I really enjoyed Oren Lyons' talk.
Ok. This is very familiar. The World Tree or the World Pole with Eagle on top. Centre and a circle. In the circle diversity, at the centre nonduality.
Egolessness serving the welfare of All Life is how Spiritual Elder leads by example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoxNyNWFvZw

***

When Amerinds talk about “Europeans”, they do not seem to realize they are talking about or are describing the Indo-European ways and perspectives.

Original/Aboriginal Europeans were hunter-gatherers.

Agriculture and the beginnings of animal husbandry came into Europe with Near Eastern migrants seeking new lands to cultivate since they had turned the Fertile Crescent into a desert:

They brought this Earth Goddess belief system with them & this is what people call the “Old Europe”.
Lithuanians are original European hunter-gatherers who embraced agriculture and these Earth-Goddess beliefs early:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k34hXty4iw

Indo-European or Kurgan invasion happened much later and much of the population and the language in Europe was replaced:
https://theconversation.com/european...uropeans-38096

To a hunter-gatherer “The Tree of Peace” was/is the Worldview.
However, it seemed, the Kurgans or Aryans had turned their backs on the ‘Laws of Nature’ in favour of ‘Laws of Men’ in order to rule over Nature and prosper.


So, here we are talking about 3 different Worldviews, the hunter-gatherers, the agriculturalists and the Indo-European Dual:


*

That's some interesting stuff, sentient.
I think Man is by nature an opportunist. He will hunt, gather, cultivate and build technologies.
All these I think must be done in balance with Life. To sustain Life. Possibly even to better Life.
There seems to be those that see our Grandmother the earth only as a resource.(They do not recognize Her as a Living Being)
Then those that see Grandmother as one of the sources of this Life.(And recognize Her as a Living Being)

Grandmother Earth the Stone Bowl of Chanunpa.(Female)
Tree of Life the Stem of Chanunpa.(Male)
Put these 2 together and put in your Tabaco with prayers and song and we say your Pipe is loaded.
All you need is to put fire to it and the wind (Breathe)
What you pray for WILL happen.(As a Pipe filling song goes)

Please NO negative thoughts around
a loaded Chanunpa, for these to will happen but come back on you
twice as negative. Not you sentient but just you in general. LOL

One of the rites the White Buffalo Calf Maiden gave was the Sundance.
This dance is done under and attached to and around the Center pole called
the Sundance Tree and also called the Tree of Life.

Here are 2 vids of an old man who talks of the Sundance a bit.

15:43 mins. Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwyaME9Ck_M

19:24 mins. Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev7sIq69CDI

Bonus: 48 mins. of Sundance songs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S03llgFtMWw

A little more on the Tree of Peace. Oren Lyons (Onondaga)
10:00 mins.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iVziGHPhVw

Wonderful videos, thank you ImthatIm.
Such a genuine account of how to work with Spirit and how generous also of him to share the knowledge about the Sundance symbols.

*
Oh, I had heard of the Iroquois Confederacy, but what a great story behind it.
Didn’t know the Longfellow's poem, The Song of Hiawatha was tied to that story.
Because Elias was Finnish and Finland was an agricultural society which for a long time had been under Swedish rule and Kalevala poems mainly came from Viena, “Russian Karelia”,
http://www.juminkeko.fi/viena/taustaa/pieni_kartta.jpg
…. from original hunter-gatherer and shamanic people – Lonnrot did not have the mind-set to understand them and left a lot out as unsuitable for publication.

The two mind-sets:
https://images.cdn.tiede.fi/MKFq2Hwz...?itok=X2DaScbx

But thank goodness for this:
https://finland.fi/arts-culture/alte...in-the-making/

*

P.S. I just learned this:

*

sentient

Your two mind-sets picture reminded me where my thinking was at.

I had heard it told that the pilgrims were taught how to farm/cultivate
by using Native agriculture, especially the Three sisters system.
Corn/Squash/Beans.



So a hunter gather society teaching an agricultural/industrial society to survive by farming.
What?
So me thinks to just separate the two is not so simple.
Me thinks the mind sets are:
1. Receiving in Thanksgiving from Earth/Grandmother living in balance with Her.(Ours)Mitakuye Oyasin
2. Taking from Earth/dirt as a consumer and conqueror, seeing the Earth as something to subdue.(Mine) My God given right to Takeey and conquer in the Name of the Lord. Foolishness.

P.S. And the Bear probably taught the three sister method to the people.
Bear is the Chief teacher of the Plants and Herbal Medicines. eh?

A message from John Trudell on becoming a human being.

19:00 mins.or so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=180vRsMmqNI

And a song: John Trudell: The cleansing (Red Earth song).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rYxUjedmNM

Some more John Trudell (And Quiltman singing backup and drum)
From His albulm: But This isn't El Salvador.


Song of the Trees
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdip-Far6Cs

The newspaper stand
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Haa2uV_1atQ

Please be careful of how many Links you post


Namaste

I remember last time. Native Spirit
Which leads me to say I hate to put you in this position again.

You specifically told me I should not do what I just did.
My bad.
I get carried away. LOL

I am here to better my writing skills, so I guess I will
try harder to accomplish my goals. Links are kind of cheating for me.:biggrin:

Thanks for putting me back on track.