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I'm not gnostic, actually. I think if what you're doing is working you shouldn't have to defend it to me. But don't be pointing fingers claiming egoism when you're the one with the "my path is correct" mentality. :) If you're so well versed in Hermeticism, you should realize that being stuck and restricted in the fifth sphere is an ego caused hangup, before the abyss. |
Adept: Calm down. Stop assuming. Stop ego inflating. Stop reading between the lines.
I am not speaking defensively, I am not pointing fingers. I have no 'my path is correct' mentality (no more so than anyone else anyways). I am not attacking you, I am attempting to have a discussion. The only reason I brought up ego is as a response to your accusation of ego. I'm trying to give a 'tit for tat'. But since we're on the subject, let me elaborate my understanding of Ego. What is Ego? Ego is the Self. To be lost in ego thus means to be lost in one's self; building up the self's esteem, the self's worth, the self's righteousness, etc. While on a lone path it is very easy to fall into Ego because you have only your self for company. If you do not connect to anything outside of yourself then you are only exploring your own mind. This is why connecting to a group, tradition, teacher, spirit, God or whatever is so important - so that you aren't just lost in your own ego but instead are engaging something else... thus quieting the ego to an extent. If what you are engaging happens to be something true then it is that much more worth while. Gnostics, Eclectics and other solitaries claim that they are not exploring their own egos but rather the depths of their spirits, their spirit guides, the spiritual world to which they are connected or other realms accessed through meditative or spiritual means. Some of these people may be right but in my experience the vast majority are lost in their own imaginations. Those that ARE accessing some kind of spiritual realm aren't experiencing it purely but are experiencing it through the cloudy lens of their own egos, confirming things that are imagined and intuiting the unconfirmable. I personally used to be an eclectic until I realized how far into my own ego I had wandered. My desire to find truth, clarity and morality led me down the path I'm currently on. I've met many people, before and after my 'switch' from all kinds of paths. I still have plenty of ego left and I'm aware of it but at least now I know how to identify it. |
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But I'm not making assumptions. You are assuming that I am gnostic, that I am unaware of my own ego, even that I need to "calm down" lol. You don't get under my skin, friend. This has turned into a discussion about ego and whether the Tree of Life has objective meaning or not, which is fine by me. We both know the tree, so you know the fifth sphere of strength / restriction. While having a solid grasp on a system is certainly strength, would you not agree that claiming your system is objectively true is also restriction? It is a double edged sphere, a place where the ego is truly tested and you must overcome it. I know that currently my position, getting better every day, but it's a long process. If I was going to make an educated assumption I'd say you're right there with me :) Nice to have a friends in the same location. |
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Yamah -- I didn't realise this about Hermetics...I don't know as much about it. Do you know what was the basis given in Hermetics for this switch? Surely they must have understood that they were reversing the traditional association of expansion with greatness/lovingkindness/compassion - right hand of God and contraction with awe/strength/judgment - left hand of God. I do a lot of healing work with guides that we often call archangels. And so I am particularly curious. I always found it interesting that the archangel representing the force of expansion is so serious and mild in his compassionate and loving manner. (I see them both as male). His intensity is purely in his focus and in his strength of character. In other words, the expansive force of love is very calm, disciplined, and strong. Whereas the contracting force of strength is very intense in purity of emotion and expression of love and truth. In other words, strength is in love. And love is in strength. Was this -- or something related -- in any way behind the "switch", which otherwise would be very hard indeed to justify with any clarity? Just wondering. Adept if you have any information on this, please also feel free to share. Thank you! Peace & blessings, 7L |
Honestly I have no idea why they switched it. The left has always been associated with the restrictive aspects. I don't think the distinction works either way though, there is really no consistency through the sides, at least not the way I see the Tree. I chose different, mirroring paths for the passive and active aspects.
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I must be looking at the wrong material. I have read about the reversal, Yamah's comment was not the first time I have seen this mentioned. However every illustration I have run across from non-Jewish esoteric sources always has the sefirot in the right order and on the proper side of the tree.
I must not get out much! Peter |
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It's not the sephirot it's simply the label. Usually Chesed is on the right but Hermeticism has it as if the tree is facing you, saying Chesed is on the left. |
LOL @ RabbiO...hahaha! Me either!
Adept, thank you for responding...maybe Yamah will bring some esoteric info here to light for us :smile: Yama...do you know why the tree &/or the labels are reversed? I talked a bit about it in my above email, but I have no idea if my musings are anywhere near on point and if so, why they wouldn't have footnoted their reasoning somewhere, LOL...but YOU may! :smile: Peace & blessings, 7L |
I don't know what really happened but I suspect it's like Adept stated, that they just looked at the image as if a person was in there facing you - so the right side of the tree (which they agree is chesed) is applied to the left arm. This was probably done innocently and ignorantly.
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LOL...wow what a letdown, hahaha :D
I suppose that's why there is no concrete explanation given, haha... as if it was done in ignorance, then the usual reaction by many is just to studiously ignore it...and hope the rest of us don't notice that there was no explanation given :tongue: Thanks for your response. Peace & blessings, 7L |
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