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sentient 15-01-2021 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImthatIm
I am at peace with my story of the Calf Pipe keeper.
This is how it was told to me.
Everyone is free to have there own telling of the way they think it is. :smile:

The 2 keepers talked of in this thread are free to sort it out.
It does not disrupt anything in me. LOL :smile:

Goody-good then ImthatIm.
Because entering the 'injun country' to me is like stepping into a mine-field and I am quite shell-shocked already.


https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5PBwDDvTV...i_reindeer.jpg

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This IS a beautiful and ever so important Amerind story - Thank you for bringing it up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reoUMEQCd1o

And the seven ceremonies are so valuable to keep.

Info about the pipe (for non-NDNs):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDiPtT4vY-M

From the video:
Pipe as an "energy conductor" for energetic thought-form and he called that an "energy signature"..
Interesting ....

In my culture "the energy conductors" are some specific trees (symbolic of the World Pole), but of course a Shaman no longer needs to do these symbolic acts.
"The Spirit Horse" that came and took the shaman-to-be-person to-the-other-side during the "Shamanic-Death-Experience" and also brought him/her back into the body - now is the energy between the Earth & Sky carrying the prayers. (What Tibetans call the "Windhorse" and Mongolians "Hiimori" - the now 'extra soul of the Shaman').

But the expression "Walks like a living prayer" should be clear enough - no?
Either understood by these symbolic acts or as an already existent "energy signature" of a holy person.
What the Sage intends .... manifests ...

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ImthatIm 16-01-2021 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anala
ImthatIm, do you think the Thunder Dreamers are not going extinct, but are actually integrated in society and therefore go unnoticed? Except for the antidotal stories?

I wonder if he grew up on the reservation if elders could help him understand his gifts better? The world is lacking in a way to help you people “know” themselves and embrace their uniqueness.

When He was 10, he had us check out Navajo Language tapes from the library. :smile:

He is such an old soul.


His gifts/Spirit will pull or lure him into the right path for him.
I do not think Thunder dreamers are extinct.
He can perfect his gifts as much as He is willing to be open to and commit to them.
He will have His whole lifetime to perfect them or not.
It will be His choice, and it will all depend on His level of commitment.
His interests will probably lead Him as time goes on.

Most tribes have some sort of Thunder society or clans.

ImthatIm 16-01-2021 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sentient
Goody-good then ImthatIm.
Because entering the 'injun country' to me is like stepping into a mine-field and I am quite shell-shocked already.
.But the expression "Walks like a living prayer" should be clear enough - no?
Either understood by these symbolic acts or as an already existent "energy signature" of a holy person.
What the Sage intends .... manifests ...



Nice little vid. on the White Buffalo Calf Maiden.
Also your 2nd vid. is excellent. I Love 'Not a Medicine Mans' practical teachings.
Yes, there is ritual and then there is beyond ritual.
I could also say the Pipe represent me. To be a Hollow Bone. Yes?

Quote:

But the expression "Walks like a living prayer" should be clear enough - no?
Yes.:smile:

Computer finally crashed so I have to clank out words on a old slow laptop.
So I may also be slow, in my responses.

sentient 17-01-2021 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImthatIm
Nice little vid. on the White Buffalo Calf Maiden.
Also your 2nd vid. is excellent. I Love 'Not a Medicine Mans' practical teachings.
Yes, there is ritual and then there is beyond ritual.
I could also say the Pipe represent me. To be a Hollow Bone. Yes?


Yes, yes. These rituals are invaluable teaching tools explaining/demonstrating how things work in practice.
And yes, first one uses a conduit (unified male-female energy) and when the scales tip over one becomes a conduit …. i.e. one becomes nothing, a-beyond-gender ‘hollow bone’ shaman.

Although Amerinds do not have shamans:
Quote:

While non-Native anthropologists sometimes use the term "shaman" for Indigenous healers worldwide, including the Americas, "shaman" is the specific name for a spiritual mediator from the Tungusic peoples of Siberia and is not used in Native American or First Nations communities.
So, sometimes these things can be understood across the board, sometimes not. And sometimes the same words used to describe different indigenous peoples’ ways can be wrong and even downright offensive.

One doesn’t call Spiritual Elders “Chiefs”:
http://www.artnet.com/artists/charle...KviNORg0TJx2Q2

And here is why:
https://www.creativespirits.info/abo...l%20University.

One wouldn’t have called a shaman a “chief” either. Ours wasn’t a personality cult. How does one make a figurehead, a ”celebrity” out of a person who has ‘died to the self’ – who became a ‘hollow bone’ in order to serve all? (All one’s relations).

People do borrow meanings from Amerind lingo though, as if it was a common language for all 'natives' :
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ANTIQUE-...-/302745297189

War paint! … What the …?:
http://www.personally-selected-abori...-painting.html

https://www.aboriginal-art-australia...-painting-art/

I don’t know of body painting in shamanism. People expressed their totems, beliefs, spirit helpers, protectors etc. etc. through jewellery and their belonging to a specific ‘nation’ through clothing.

*

Maybe I had told about this story before. At one time, met this Elder/Healer (‘medicine man’) in an event. He had a paper tube on his head and when I asked about it, he said: “The Pope has got one too, so why shouldn’t I?”

- Which I thought was fair enough.

His name was/is "Nose Peg" (Although he wasn’t wearing one at that time).

Another old picture (I trust) of a healer:
https://wellcomecollection.org/works/vpyjfaqh

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Anala 17-01-2021 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImthatIm
His gifts/Spirit will pull or lure him into the right path for him.
I do not think Thunder dreamers are extinct.
He can perfect his gifts as much as He is willing to be open to and commit to them.
He will have His whole lifetime to perfect them or not.
It will be His choice, and it will all depend on His level of commitment.
His interests will probably lead Him as time goes on.

Most tribes have some sort of Thunder society or clans.


Thank you! He will find his way, no doubt. He is working out the empath part first.

sentient 19-01-2021 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImthatIm
His gifts/Spirit will pull or lure him into the right path for him.
I do not think Thunder dreamers are extinct.
He can perfect his gifts as much as He is willing to be open to and commit to them.
He will have His whole lifetime to perfect them or not.
It will be His choice, and it will all depend on His level of commitment.
His interests will probably lead Him as time goes on.

Most tribes have some sort of Thunder society or clans.

That was a good post ImthatIm and it sounded true.

However on the other matter, I cannot quite imagine a hereditary pipe carrier as a “chief” or as a “pope like leader.”
This conjures up an Indo-European hierarchical worldview.
Surely there is a difference there – no?

*

ImthatIm 21-01-2021 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sentient
That was a good post ImthatIm and it sounded true.

However on the other matter, I cannot quite imagine a hereditary pipe carrier as a “chief” or as a “pope like leader.”
This conjures up an Indo-European hierarchical worldview.
Surely there is a difference there – no?

*


Yes, I agree.
I hesitated using it that way. I decided to live dangerously that day. LOL
I was relating it as an example, but they are totally different.
Though, I cannot speak to how different or how much they
have in common. I have never walked in eithers shoes.

Arvol calls himself chief as a title.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynkdlsekUHE

ImthatIm 21-01-2021 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anala
Thank you! He will find his way, no doubt. He is working out the empath part first.


Nice to hear that.
I Hope nothing but goodness for you and your family.

ImthatIm 21-01-2021 01:46 PM

Some Louie Gonnie music
On our Road of Life

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V38iEVjhP1s

ImthatIm 21-01-2021 02:35 PM

A persons experience of his first sweat/purification lodge.
I liked hearing him tell his story.
I could relate.

Vid. is about 14min.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBPc0wVTwM0


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