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Gordon 04-06-2013 04:42 AM

Please Interpret (it's short)
 
I had this dream last night, I think I have some ideas, but I have to get other opinions. For a little background: I'm a psychiatric registered nurse, I deal mostly with the patient's medical issues. I was having a conversation with a psych tech last night about the glory days of our past military service. He is retired U.S. Army, and I was ten years in the U.S. Air Force (my wife is retired USAF). Anyway, the dream went like this:
------------
I was stealing a patient's medication (In life, of course, I would never do that.). She was supposed to take these pills that would dilate her pupils. Somehow, I was taking care of her and she was an older woman, maybe in her fifties. She had lived a hard life, and she looked it. But she showed me a video on her phone of herself as a young stripper, and she was beautiful.

I followed her back to her apartment on skid row. And there were all these old mental patients hanging around the apartment complex, and I was talking with some of them--therapeutically--like I do at work. Then I woke up.
---------------
I don't know if any of you use astrology to help with interpretation like I do, but if you do, here's my info:

Edward
Born: September 22, 1964, 1:00PM (PDT), Redding, California, USA
Time of Dream: Apprx. 0900 (CDT) June 3, 2013

Any interpretations would be greatly welcomed. Thanks in advance.

Ed

MusicMike 04-06-2013 09:18 AM

So I wonder what is symbolized by this older women. Are you approaching her age or is that a few years away?

What things come to mind when you think about a person who has lived hard and had beautiful younger days? Do you think she has dignity and esteem? How does that fact she was once a stripper affect your relationship with her? Does she represent how you would like to live in your 50's?

Any associations to dilating her pupils? It makes me think of looking into the windows of her soul.

She's the main character so I will be interested to know more about your associations.

Gordon 05-06-2013 09:57 PM

:dontknow: Sorry Mike, but if I had an answer to all your questions about the dream, I'd know exactly what it meant. I was hoping others could give me what they think the symbols mean.

If you have any ideas, by all means, let me know.

MusicMike 05-06-2013 11:58 PM

My process of dream interpretation involves asking for associations, which are things that images remind you of. You aren't trying to determine the meaning of the dream, just brainstorming any possible association. Your unconscious created these symbols in the dream, and your unconscious holds the key to these symbols through your associations. The brainstorming process involves anything that comes to mind when you ponder these symbols.

So the questions I was asking were to get you to brainstorm, not to try to determine the right answers.

If I were to interpret the dream knowing nothing about your associations, I would call that a "blind reading." This dream doesn't have a lot of detail in the way the characters interact, so it really needs your associations. But here's what I would say:

The older woman likely represents a side of yourself that has feminine qualities. It could be a side of yourself that comes out in the nursing work. That you are stealing from her likely indicates your attitude toward her in real life is, in some way stealing from her ability to be fully alive and present in your life. My own association to dilating her pupils is looking into her soul. Looking into her past also feels that way to me: somehow looking past the externals and into who she really is.

So, put in vague terms, in life you have an ambiguous attitude toward the feminine side of yourself, both acting in ways that detract from her life, and starting to recognize her deeper, inner qualities as something beautiful.

Also these skid row mental patients are there. My association to all this is that the woman represents part of you that comes out when you care for patients.

Okay, so that's a blind reading.

The other thing about dream interpretation, as I do it, is that it's a two-way process. So these ideas have to "click" for you. I'm not just telling you what I think it is, but asking you if it fits what you know of your life.


-Mike

IsleWalker 06-06-2013 12:58 AM

Hi Veridican--

I'm with Mike in only knowing how to go through a brainstorming process where your feedback is important. [You're the only one I've known who uses astrology in dream interpretation.] But his insight about "stealing" the woman's medicine, as in--her "stuff" that looks into her soul--seems right.

Do you feel you are "stealing" from patients when you learn as much from their experiences as they do from you? All of us have the beautiful youth past--just depends how long ago it's been! And each of us have the slightly shady side. It can be a reminder when talking to people who seem to be in a different place in life--that their insights are just as real, as "beautiful" and valid as our own.

The fact that all your old patients were also in her skid row apartment--shows the same pattern. You were familiar with them too.

Don't know if this resonate with you.

Lora

P.S. Hope I didn't lose an email from you to spam. Did I?

kuurt 06-06-2013 02:29 AM

The vast majority of my own dreams that I have managed to interpret ended up being about something that happened recently – usually the day before. The fact that you felt the need to tell us about a conversation you had with a psych tech last night makes me wonder if it doesn't have something to do with that. Maybe you have a feeling that it might be about that. If not, I'm not sure why you even mentioned that.

In the dream you are taking something from somebody that you are taking care of. Does that remind you of a situation that took place recently (probably yesterday)? Do you remember taking something (anything at all) from somebody?

How did you feel about taking the medication in the dream? If you felt bad about it, for example, then you can ask yourself “where in my waking life have I recently felt bad about taking something from somebody?” And that somebody is probably somebody who you were helping or taking care of like you were in the dream.

What did you do with the medication after you stole it, did you take (ingest) it yourself or what?

Taking medication to dilate one's pupils could symbols getting help to open one's eyes. When our pupils dilate we're able to take in more. It may or may not symbolize that, it's just one possibility.

I've never heard of anybody using astrology to help with interpreting a dream. That sounds interesting if it's possible.

MusicMike 06-06-2013 02:34 AM

kuurt,
I do believe that dreams are primarily about present-moment, ongoing patterns in our lives, but perhaps I disagree with you in looking for an external patient that this woman symbolizes. Dreams are about what happens in present-moment time, but from the perspective of inner dynamics. So people in dreams are often aspects of the dreamer. They CAN be external people sometimes, but this particular dreams feels to me like the woman is an aspect of Edward.

-Mike

kuurt 06-06-2013 03:34 AM

No, actually I agree with you. Often other people in our dreams do represent aspects of ourselves, although not always.

I was just trying to bring attention to the action and feelings in the dream so he could link that to something in his waking life. I was just describing the action in the dream without the symbols because the symbols can confuse. The action was that he was taking something from somebody that he was taking care of. Didn't mean to imply that this somebody couldn't represent an aspect of himself.

Gordon 06-06-2013 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike1127
The older woman likely represents a side of yourself that has feminine qualities. It could be a side of yourself that comes out in the nursing work. That you are stealing from her likely indicates your attitude toward her in real life is, in some way stealing from her ability to be fully alive and present in your life. My own association to dilating her pupils is looking into her soul. Looking into her past also feels that way to me: somehow looking past the externals and into who she really is.

So, put in vague terms, in life you have an ambiguous attitude toward the feminine side of yourself, both acting in ways that detract from her life, and starting to recognize her deeper, inner qualities as something beautiful.

Also these skid row mental patients are there. My association to all this is that the woman represents part of you that comes out when you care for patients.

Okay, so that's a blind reading.


That's very interesting, Mike. I will definitely think on this some. You've brought up some very interesting points.

Gordon 06-06-2013 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IsleWalker
Do you feel you are "stealing" from patients when you learn as much from their experiences as they do from you?


Now that's an interesting insight. I will definitely think on it some.

I apologize, but I don't like to talk about hits or misses or validate what interpreters say in forums because I don't want to stifle what the next interpreter might say. If I say, "Oh, that's definitely it!" Then what if there's an interpreter out there that had a different opinion?

But what you say is very interesting to me. :eek:


Quote:

P.S. Hope I didn't lose an email from you to spam. Did I?

I don't know. The last e-mail I sent to you was never returned as undeliverable, but neither have I received a response from you. If you PM me your e-mail address, I'll be sure to resend.

Gordon 06-06-2013 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuurt
Taking medication to dilate one's pupils could symbols getting help to open one's eyes.


Very interesting. :icon_eek:

Quote:

I've never heard of anybody using astrology to help with interpreting a dream. That sounds interesting if it's possible.

Oh, it's possible. :wink:

Gordon 06-06-2013 05:13 AM

I would like to say for the record that I have never stolen a patient's medication. I believe this is a symbol in the dream and it has significance, but I assure you it has nothing to do with a real situation.

Just sayin...

Fairfre 06-06-2013 05:32 AM

The medication for dilating pupils is symbolic of your work and of opening a person's "soul eyes" so they can "take in" , "see more" of what's around them (perhaps reality) and facilitates healing.
However( simply for the dream purposes) you steal the meds, and the roles are reversed.

The woman, whoever or whatever she represents is there to teach or show you something.

The phone video is the clue as to what. Two worlds. The video shows the woman how she really is. The rest of the dream shows the world that we know and understand now. Some people call this world ..illusion. Sorry..I am probably not making much sense.

I think her apartment is the threshold (so to speak) to this world of higher consciousness and the old mental patients hanging around are those that sense it , but haven't worked it out yet.

Just my 2 cents worth.
Sorry the post is so choppy. I had a nicely typed one that just disappeared when I posted, so I had to start over again.

MusicMike 06-06-2013 05:48 AM

I believe dream interpretation is a two-way process that should be done with full information about a person's life and their associations to dream images. It can be done collaboratively with several interpreters. It's not trying to predict something that can be a "hit" or a "miss," but rather finding patterns, which ultimately only the dreamer can confirm.

Maybe there is some pattern in your life in the way you relate to the feminine, but without information about your life and your associations to the dream image, no one else can work with that pattern.

I think you have too fragile an image of interpreters. On this forum, and the other two I'm on (that do dream interpretation), many interpreters will speak up and contradict each other.

MusicMike 06-06-2013 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veridican
I would like to say for the record that I have never stolen a patient's medication. I believe this is a symbol in the dream and it has significance, but I assure you it has nothing to do with a real situation.

Just sayin...


I believe you of course, but it might be worth considering how you would feel if you DID steal a medication, or what extreme circumstances might drive you to do it, because your unconscious chose that image for some specific reason, I believe.

Would you consider it a betrayal of the patient under your care? An unethical act? Putting yourself in danger of being caught? You unconscious chose this because it resonates with your relationship to this part of yourself symbolized by the older woman.

Mike

in progress 06-06-2013 06:20 AM

You were stealing her medication which is like taking her power to heal (though meds are transient, short term healing). Seems her medicine helps you to see more. Though she thought of her life as hard (you state this as a perception and not a fact, how she "saw" it, back to the eyes) but in the past she was beautiful. To me this is about how perception of self has changed over time.

Gordon 06-06-2013 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fairfre
The medication for dilating pupils is symbolic of your work and of opening a person's "soul eyes" so they can "take in" , "see more" of what's around them (perhaps reality) and facilitates healing.
However( simply for the dream purposes) you steal the meds, and the roles are reversed.

The woman, whoever or whatever she represents is there to teach or show you something.

The phone video is the clue as to what. Two worlds. The video shows the woman how she really is. The rest of the dream shows the world that we know and understand now. Some people call this world ..illusion. Sorry..I am probably not making much sense.

I think her apartment is the threshold (so to speak) to this world of higher consciousness and the old mental patients hanging around are those that sense it , but haven't worked it out yet.

Just my 2 cents worth.
Sorry the post is so choppy. I had a nicely typed one that just disappeared when I posted, so I had to start over again.



I really appreciate you doing double the work to give me an interpretation. And I am quite impressed.

Thank you very much.

E.

Gordon 06-06-2013 07:58 AM

My Take on It
 
I feel like this dream has gotten more attention that a lot of others on this board get, so I think at this point it's probably had enough, so I will go ahead and give my take on it.

I do not think, however, that my take is superior to others in here who have interpreted, but this is simply how I see it. I think the other interpretations have helped confirm a great deal of the dream to me and may help even more later on as I put the message of the dream into action.

So here is what I gathered from it:

Quote:

I was stealing a patient's medication (In life, of course, I would never do that.). She was supposed to take these pills that would dilate her pupils.

I think this means I'm supposed to see something of great value. I believe this means my eyes are going to be opened by the message of this dream.


Quote:

Somehow, I was taking care of her and she was an older woman, maybe in her fifties. She had lived a hard life, and she looked it. But she showed me a video on her phone of herself as a young stripper, and she was beautiful.

I think this is the Divine showing me that life has a moment of glory in it, and we all live past it, and we can never have that same glory back.

Quote:

I followed her back to her apartment on skid row.


The apartment is a symbol of my soul, and this is an impoverished area of my soul.

Quote:

And there were all these old mental patients hanging around the apartment complex, and I was talking with some of them--therapeutically--like I do at work. Then I woke up.

I believe I am supposed to show people how to live in the post-glory days of their life. Most likely through the publication of a book.

I concluded this by finding a very strange and rare occurance in the transiting planets for the time of this dream in my birth chart. Chiron is coming into an exact conjunction with transiting Chiron in my third house. The issue of living beyond the best days of my life is a deep wound in my psyche, and Chiron is all about the "wounded healer." Chiron would not make this kind of conjunction (which I can explain more in depth if you like) for hundreds of years, and of course that is well past my life time. In other words: I have never seen this kind of conjunction before, and I never will again (It occurs on June 16-17), and it speaks to this dream.

Gordon 06-06-2013 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by in progress
You were stealing her medication which is like taking her power to heal (though meds are transient, short term healing). Seems her medicine helps you to see more.


Yes.


Quote:

Though she thought of her life as hard (you state this as a perception and not a fact, how she "saw" it, back to the eyes) but in the past she was beautiful. To me this is about how perception of self has changed over time.

See, that may be the key right there. The "glory days" may be only a "misperception." I don't know yet.

But thank you. You have helped me a great deal.

MusicMike 06-06-2013 08:50 AM

Do you believe that all dreams are prophetic or should have the quality of a psychic reading? Because that's not my perspective at all. I believe they are ways of rehearsing the present-moment issues in our lives, but from the perspective of the unconscious rather than the ego. Now, sometimes a close reading of the present-moment circumstances can be prophetic. To give an exaggerated example, if I spend half my waking time thinking about college, applying to college, etc. it can be reasonably predicted that soon I will be in college. Or, you could say that dreams bring our priorities -- from the perspective of "our whole persons," not from the limited ego--into awareness.

But a lot of the time, it's about becoming aware of aspects of ourselves and how we relate to them, just that (no predictions in sight).

In your interpretation, Edward, you didn't say much about who this woman is, and how you relate to her. I believe she is really part of yourself and that the dream wants you to look at how you relate to her. In the dream, were you helping her to live in her post-glory days?

The thing about medication for dilating pupils--isn't that done by doctors to help people see in? I don't believe that is done to help people see out. Edward's associations may tell us something about this, but if it is indeed true that these medications were meant to help the doctor examine the patient's eyes, then the focus of the dream shifts slightly. That image is about the dreamer (Edward) possibly seeing into the woman, or possibly not seeing her.

The idea of looking through her photos and video, to me, fits with looking into her. Those two details together give me a stronger association. But again we must ask Edward: do you recall if you were helping her to see who she was? Or was she telling you who she was? Who was helping whom?

But only Edward's associations can tell us which is the stronger match. I mean associations to individual dream images. So in other words, Edward, forget what you think the meaning of the dream is. Just brainstorm a list of associations you have to this particular m edication and how it is used.

Fairfre 06-06-2013 10:03 AM

Your very welcome.

IsleWalker 06-06-2013 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike1127
I believe dream interpretation is a two-way process that should be done with full information about a person's life and their associations to dream images. It can be done collaboratively with several interpreters. It's not trying to predict something that can be a "hit" or a "miss," but rather finding patterns, which ultimately only the dreamer can confirm.

I think you have too fragile an image of interpreters. On this forum, and the other two I'm on (that do dream interpretation), many interpreters will speak up and contradict each other.


Yeah, I have to agree Verdican. This isn't performance art--not a psychic reading, it's just folks helping other folks figure it out. They are the final arbiter if it is right.

Just two more cents on the subject. I don't really think anyone can do a dream interpretation and hit "100%" without the help of the dreamer. Like I said--cooperative endeavor.

Lora

Gordon 06-06-2013 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike1127
Do you believe that all dreams are prophetic or should have the quality of a psychic reading?


Just the dreams we remember. I think the Divine Source speaks to us through these dreams, yes.

Quote:

Because that's not my perspective at all. I believe they are ways of rehearsing the present-moment issues in our lives, but from the perspective of the unconscious rather than the ego. Now, sometimes a close reading of the present-moment circumstances can be prophetic. To give an exaggerated example, if I spend half my waking time thinking about college, applying to college, etc. it can be reasonably predicted that soon I will be in college. Or, you could say that dreams bring our priorities -- from the perspective of "our whole persons," not from the limited ego--into awareness.

Well, that's a psychological approach to dream interpretation, which is fine. I personally have always wondered about the value of such interpretations, though, because it always seem like they're describing the water to a drowning person.

Like you could take my dream and say, well, you have a male/female conflict. But my response would be, "...and?"

The psychologist might say, "and nothing, that's all the dream means." But personally, dreams seem to have a greater significance to the dreamer. The dreamer is always left asking, "Why those images? Why in that order? Why with that plot structure? Why at this moment?"

Psychologically, my dream was spurred by the discussion I had earlier that night with the tech. But it seemed to conclude with a message, and then when I looked at my chart, it seemed the message was clear.

But, I could be wrong. It just seems like the dream meant more than just a reply of stress and daily events.

Quote:

But a lot of the time, it's about becoming aware of aspects of ourselves and how we relate to them, just that (no predictions in sight).

In your interpretation, Edward, you didn't say much about who this woman is, and how you relate to her. I believe she is really part of yourself and that the dream wants you to look at how you relate to her. In the dream, were you helping her to live in her post-glory days?

In the dream she was like a guide, so I think she was a spirit guide. She knew I thought she looked old and worn out. She showed me her phone. She led me to the apartment. The other patients were hanging around there. I don't know her at all. And I couldn't really describe her to you. Perhaps she looked like a patient I have, I don't know.

A part of myself? Okay, but she seemed to have more significance than that. She seemed in control of the dream, not me in my dream body. She was leading the way.

Quote:

The thing about medication for dilating pupils--isn't that done by doctors to help people see in? I don't believe that is done to help people see out. Edward's associations may tell us something about this, but if it is indeed true that these medications were meant to help the doctor examine the patient's eyes, then the focus of the dream shifts slightly. That image is about the dreamer (Edward) possibly seeing into the woman, or possibly not seeing her.

Okay, so what does that mean? What should I do?

Quote:

The idea of looking through her photos and video, to me, fits with looking into her. Those two details together give me a stronger association. But again we must ask Edward: do you recall if you were helping her to see who she was? Or was she telling you who she was? Who was helping whom?

Honestly, she seemed to be helping me. Like I said, she was controlling this dream, not me.

Quote:

But only Edward's associations can tell us which is the stronger match. I mean associations to individual dream images. So in other words, Edward, forget what you think the meaning of the dream is. Just brainstorm a list of associations you have to this particular m edication and how it is used.

Well, why brainstorm if I'm just supposed to forget what I think the meaning of the dream is?

IsleWalker 06-06-2013 07:34 PM

Edward,

OK. I'll play devil's advocate here. You said "Honestly, she seemed to be helping me. Like I said, she was controlling this dream, not me."

So? What was she trying to show you? That's the core of the dream--of any dream. What do you suspect she was showing you?

Lora

CrystalSong 06-06-2013 07:58 PM

This is what came to me, please disregard if it doesn't resonant with you.

Stealing represents "lack of" or 'belief in lack of" or 'not enough of'.... Therefore the medication (the missing thing) would be perceived as something that's missing and needs to be gained. The fact that it's medication which represents altering things to be less painful or in some other way 'improve us', is interesting.

The visitation to skid row and a way of life leading on to a perceived low point is interesting also.
The woman showing the photo of what was and then the skid row visit is like connecting together dots of a life path in which something was missing and it led to a place of little hope (skid row) The stripper representing the desires of the flesh, surface satisfaction only, ie food, entertainment, sensation etc. Not spirit, but only body and mind.

It could be this dream is showing you (because it was you stealing the meds) that there are many forks in the road and the desires of the body and mmind are no longer suiting you. But through living more consciously, with a sense of fullness, KNOWING there is nothing missing, all is within you already, but perhaps not fully discovered and brought forward.
Looking for something artificial outside your self leads to a place of No Hope. Looking through expanded vision (through spirit) is what is suggested possibly?

Think back on the discussion with your psych test friend, was something triggered in that conversation that might have led to a subconscious upwelling in dreams of a life once sensed more deeply and filled with a stronger sense of satisfaction, a feeling of being more vital and of moment to moment meaning? A time back then when you knew you were spot on on the Path, living and experiencing exactly as you were meant to in accordance with a greater Purpose?

That the medication is to dilate pupils is fascinating, this speaks to me of Eye Opening, as in awakening to Bigger pictures. Activating the third eye and so on, very spirit based symbology in the choice of medication.

As to the woman herself, I get no impressions, she feels like a prop to me for showing the medications and the skid row place of No Hope and End. A vehicle of sorts to tie elements together. A tour guide through the dreamworld to important stops.

It would seem your spirit or higher self is calling to you, saying it is time to become aware in higher planes, to not do so is to stay bound to the corporeal reality only which could be seen as skid row a place of No Hope because it is disconnected from the larger being of the Self and only has knowledge of the physical.

again, ignore me if this doesn't resonate. =)

IsleWalker 06-06-2013 08:11 PM

Edward--

I have taken your invitation offered in PM to publish our last PM. It has to do with your analysis of my dream and, honestly, about your attitude toward dreams, what they are, etc. I would like to get other people's opinions about this topic.


Edward--

Quote:
Hmmm...not sure how to take the analysis.

From the time you said you got the analysis, to the time you sent this e-mail was only a very few minutes. I find it hard to believe you gave it much consideration. But that's your choice. It's totally up to you what you do with it.

Quote:
While I do believe I have issues of value/worth and financial are an issue at the moment, I don't really think that is what the dream is about.

You have to understand, I don't really care what you think the dream is about. I know that sounds harsh, but as in interpreter, that's where I'm coming from. I'm very analytical. You record the dream; I interpret the dream. I may be wrong. I may miss. But my interpretation is my interpretation. I honestly, typically, will not even interpret a dream where the dreamer has put forward their own ideas. But I wanted to do one, and yours was interesting, and so I set that rule aside. But this PM from you only reinforces why I formed the rule in the first place.

If you can interpret your dream, you do not need, nor do you want me messing in it. All I can do for you that will make you happy, once you interpreted it, is to agree with you. I'm the same way--everyone is.

Quote:
I must say--I am somewhat surprised by your attitude about people's own thoughts about their dreams. You seem to easily dismiss people's own ideas about their dreams, where I feel that only Ican truly know when I hear the "truth" for me.

Okay. I hear you. And that's a very typical viewpoint regarding dreams, and it's valid. But I would then ask this: Why come to me?

See, if you come to me, then I do you a disservice if I don't give you what I am supposed to give you, which is my unbiased analysis based on the talents I have--if any.

Quote:
I'm curious--are you intending to eventually have a paid dream analysis service? I think people would want it.


No. Absolutely not. I did that in the past, and within three months all I was doing is servicing narcissists who were more than willing to pay for me to tell them how great they are. Coming back to this, I have decided I will only make my money indirectly, like through the sale of books or classes, or speaking engagements or something like that. My readings will always remain untouchable.

That's why I take such care in documenting them. I think they are communications from the Divine Source. See, the lesson of your dream may have been for you, but I got to listen in, too. I got to overhear what the Divine was teaching you. Your dream, in the end, may be more important to me than it is to you. Strange, huh?



Quote:
I hope you will value the intuition of those having the dreams--IMO they are the only ones who can know! I somehow get a feeling that you just want them to step aside and you'll do the analysis.

Honestly, that's true. And I'm not trying to be an curmudgeonly about it, but that is exactly how I see it. The dreamer's role is to have the dream and make the official recording of it. Once I have that recording, I will not allow the dreamer to correct it or modify it or change any details, not even spelling or grammar. The act of recording it is still part of the ongoing message.

Quote:
Sorry--you get that I am a direct person. I am just trying to give you honest feedback, thinking that you are trying to learn more about the direction you are heading. But I'm only one person.

Hey, I love it, and I appreciate it, and I'm glad we had this talk. Also, feel free to bring any of this PM up in the forum for other's opinions. Nothing I've written here do I consider private. But I will respect your privacy and never mention it if you don't.

Quote:
Thank you so much for the analysis. I don't know anyone else doing this kind of analysis.

Lora

CrystalSong 06-06-2013 08:13 PM

Hmmm if the woman represents your higher self/Spirit and the egoaic you is stealing the eye opening medicine, it is like calling out to your Higher Self to make contact....and spirit does and shows you....what moment of epiphany did you have in the conversation with your friend? (rhetorical question, no need to tell me, the answer is just for you)
It seems like it activated something and your Spirit is responding with affirmation that you need to alter course to get the fulfillment you remembered having been at at once time.
Perhaps?
Maybe?

IsleWalker 06-06-2013 08:32 PM

Edward--

Seems to me that we disagree so fundamentally about this because we disagree about what dreams are.

I feel some dreams are created because we, as consciousness, have experiences at a totally non-visual (non-astral) level. We interact with other consciousness.

Because it's difficult to convey all that is communicated energy-to-energy, consciousness-to-consciousness, we create these visual/auditory/tactile dreams to carry back to our waking consciousness the important lessons of the dream.

When we can't quite understand what a dream means, it's because some of the meaning has not made it back--but I feel it is there to be jogged or brought out.

So, in my world, it is not at all true that dreams are made and should never be messed with after they are "presented". They are not really for the world, they are for me to understand what my own Higher Self has experienced/learned and wishes me to know consciously, in 3D.

In your conception--the dream is created for ??the world?

It is a very strange conception, I think. It explains why you are so dismissive of the dreamer's own opinion about what it means.

For the record--even if I understand part of a dream, I ask for help (from you or others) because part of it just hasn't yet clicked as conveying the real message from me to me. I may understand what parts of it mean--but not all.

I also believe in the idea that we each have our own, unique sets of symbols that we have developed over this lifetime (and perhaps others). So when I see a curved glass case with "jewels" inside--it ties to DNA, string theory, strings of energy which contain on them the many "lives" I lived and live. But that's just me--literally, just me.

I am curious what others think about this.

Lora

P.S. And in my opinion, if you do have a gift for doing these readings, it is not out of the realm of possibility that (a) you might not be totally correct or that (b) you might not learn from each one. Expecting that "your gift" is 100% correct from the get-go seems unrealistic. Many people here have abilities, but they are always being honed/improved-upon. That's the basis of growth--we never know it all.

MusicMike 06-06-2013 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veridican
Just the dreams we remember. I think the Divine Source speaks to us through these dreams, yes.



Well, that's a psychological approach to dream interpretation, which is fine. I personally have always wondered about the value of such interpretations, though, because it always seem like they're describing the water to a drowning person.

Like you could take my dream and say, well, you have a male/female conflict. But my response would be, "...and?"


As I do it, the analysis is always a lot more specific than something like "you have a male/female conflict." If you don't see the usefulness of something vague, I'm with you there.

I believe that dreams are trying to tell us something we aren't consciously acknowledging. And people have a lot of blind spots. So in the metaphor a drowning person might not know they are drowning. They need to be aware of that.

And why become aware of that? Because you can act on that information. Once you become aware you are drowning, you can swim.

In the case of your dream, what I would do is work with your associations to the older woman to make it something specific, so that you could actually identify the times she comes out during your daily life. And come up with some concrete meaning of "stealing" so that you can see where in your life you are doing that.

The benefit? Well, you can change what you doing once you are aware of it. It's just hard, as a human being, to get unstuck from a pattern until you are aware of it.



Quote:


The psychologist might say, "and nothing, that's all the dream means." But personally, dreams seem to have a greater significance to the dreamer. The dreamer is always left asking, "Why those images? Why in that order? Why with that plot structure? Why at this moment?"

Psychologically, my dream was spurred by the discussion I had earlier that night with the tech. But it seemed to conclude with a message, and then when I looked at my chart, it seemed the message was clear.

But, I could be wrong. It just seems like the dream meant more than just a reply of stress and daily events.



I could be wrong too, of course. I believe that it is up to the dreamer to confirm what's going on.

I am interested in the details of character and plot structure. I think it's very important.

I place a high value on a dream as "merely" a record of the day's events, because it is telling those events from a perspective the unconscious. A good perspective is a hard thing to come by, in life.


Quote:


Okay, so what does that mean? What should I do?


(regarding the question of the function of the medication) Are you asking how the function of the medication affects your action taken in response to this dream? I don't really know, but I think it would be useful to delve into it. Brainstorming a list of associations to this medication could help look for a more specific meaning.

Regarding my statement "forget what you think the dream means, and brainstorm": what I mean is temporarily forget about finding a meaning to the dream. Eventually, once you have a list of associations to each dream image, you can start to look for patterns.

What I mean is, brainstorm about each dream image individually before trying to combine them into a larger meaning.

-Mike

MusicMike 06-06-2013 08:53 PM

Regarding my perspective toward dreams, at the most basic level I believe they are a rehearsal of life, so in the dream you do all the things you do in life. Except that the dream is speaking from a much broader perspective than the conscious ego. That is what makes it valuable.

Because the dream is speaking of things that the ego doesn't directly experience, the language of dreams needs to be symbolic.

Personally, I don't try to resolve questions about whether I have a soul, whether consciousness is non-material, etc. I think that I can look at a dream as a thing unto itself, and I can act on what it tells me, without needing to have ultimate answers to the nature of life and the universe.

I should add that dreams seem to point to some seed of a potential, often. Let's say that I never go to church, but somewhere in me I know that I should. And let's say that throughout my day I have mini-experiences that are something like being in church. Then I might dream of being in church. In that case, the dream is expressing the potential in the seeds. The dream is still talking about what is actually there, but in this case also expressing where it could go.

-Mike

Gordon 06-06-2013 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrystalSong
That the medication is to dilate pupils is fascinating, this speaks to me of Eye Opening, as in awakening to Bigger pictures. Activating the third eye and so on, very spirit based symbology in the choice of medication.


Opening the third eye. I hadn't thought of that. Very good. :icon_cyclops_ani:

Quote:

As to the woman herself, I get no impressions, she feels like a prop to me for showing the medications and the skid row place of No Hope and End.

I hadn't thought of skid row in that way. Thank you for that. Yes.


Quote:

A vehicle of sorts to tie elements together. A tour guide through the dreamworld to important stops.

I believe the woman was a guide, yes.

Quote:

It would seem your spirit or higher self is calling to you, saying it is time to become aware in higher planes, to not do so is to stay bound to the corporeal reality only which could be seen as skid row a place of No Hope because it is disconnected from the larger being of the Self and only has knowledge of the physical.

Yes, absolutely. That resonates with me as well.

Thank you very much, CrystalSong, for taking the time to look at this. You've been quite helpful to me. :hug2:

Gordon 06-06-2013 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IsleWalker
Edward--

Seems to me that we disagree so fundamentally about this because we disagree about what dreams are.

I feel some dreams are created because we, as consciousness, have experiences at a totally non-visual (non-astral) level. We interact with other consciousness.

Because it's difficult to convey all that is communicated energy-to-energy, consciousness-to-consciousness, we create these visual/auditory/tactile dreams to carry back to our waking consciousness the important lessons of the dream.

When we can't quite understand what a dream means, it's because some of the meaning has not made it back--but I feel it is there to be jogged or brought out.

So, in my world, it is not at all true that dreams are made and should never be messed with after they are "presented". They are not really for the world, they are for me to understand what my own Higher Self has experienced/learned and wishes me to know consciously, in 3D.


I hear what you're saying. That's very interesting, and I will think on that some.

Quote:

In your conception--the dream is created for ??the world?

It is a very strange conception, I think. It explains why you are so dismissive of the dreamer's own opinion about what it means.

You have to understand, I'm dismissive of what the dreamer thinks about the dream, because I have to stay objective in order to interpret the message. I'm not dismissive about the dreamer as a person; I just don't want their tendency toward wish fullfilment to interfere with the messages I get from my psychic impression.

Quote:

For the record--even if I understand part of a dream, I ask for help (from you or others) because part of it just hasn't yet clicked as conveying the real message from me to me. I may understand what parts of it mean--but not all.

I also believe in the idea that we each have our own, unique sets of symbols that we have developed over this lifetime (and perhaps others). So when I see a curved glass case with "jewels" inside--it ties to DNA, string theory, strings of energy which contain on them the many "lives" I lived and live. But that's just me--literally, just me.

Yes, but if a person can interpret their own dream, then they don't need my opinion, and in fact my opinion would only get in their way. It is not my job, as an interpreter, to agree with them, but rather to be as true to my method of interpretation as possible.


Quote:

P.S. And in my opinion, if you do have a gift for doing these readings, it is not out of the realm of possibility that (a) you might not be totally correct or that (b) you might not learn from each one. Expecting that "your gift" is 100% correct from the get-go seems unrealistic. Many people here have abilities, but they are always being honed/improved-upon. That's the basis of growth--we never know it all.

Yes. And my interpretations can be wrong--plain and simple, but I have to make sure that at least initially they are 100% my interpretations and not slanted by any outside influence. Not to mention, what really throws me is a precognitive dream, and I'm always on the look out for some telltale signs of precognition, but I can never be sure. If a dream is precognitive, I could get the dream, interpret it, only to be utterly wrong because what I thought were symbols were not--they were images of a future occurance.

Lucidity is another problem. In a lucid dream, the dreamer is controlling the dream, so that clouds the symbology. The best dream is a vivid weird dream that no one else has yet interpreted and the dreamer doesn't have a clue where the heck it came from. That's the best kind of dream to have. :smile:

Gordon 06-06-2013 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike1127
As I do it, the analysis is always a lot more specific than something like "you have a male/female conflict." If you don't see the usefulness of something vague, I'm with you there.

I believe that dreams are trying to tell us something we aren't consciously acknowledging. And people have a lot of blind spots. So in the metaphor a drowning person might not know they are drowning. They need to be aware of that.

And why become aware of that? Because you can act on that information. Once you become aware you are drowning, you can swim.


Very well stated.

Quote:

In the case of your dream, what I would do is work with your associations to the older woman to make it something specific, so that you could actually identify the times she comes out during your daily life. And come up with some concrete meaning of "stealing" so that you can see where in your life you are doing that.

The benefit? Well, you can change what you doing once you are aware of it. It's just hard, as a human being, to get unstuck from a pattern until you are aware of it.

But what do you think the cause of it is? I mean, do you think the mind has some mechanism whereby it attempts to be as health and high functioning as possible? Is that why it produces the dream?


Quote:

I could be wrong too, of course. I believe that it is up to the dreamer to confirm what's going on.

I am interested in the details of character and plot structure. I think it's very important.

I place a high value on a dream as "merely" a record of the day's events, because it is telling those events from a perspective the unconscious. A good perspective is a hard thing to come by, in life.


Yes, it is. So, are you a psychologist by any chance? I don't mean that as a challenge or sarcastically, I'm truly curious if that's your profession? You seem like you'd make a good one if you're not. Or would you rather not say?


Quote:

Regarding my statement "forget what you think the dream means, and brainstorm": what I mean is temporarily forget about finding a meaning to the dream. Eventually, once you have a list of associations to each dream image, you can start to look for patterns.

What I mean is, brainstorm about each dream image individually before trying to combine them into a larger meaning.

That makes sense to me. Thanks for clarifying.

MusicMike 06-06-2013 11:13 PM

Edward,
I think you are making a false dichotomy. You say that either you should interpret the dream with no input from them, or else they are capable of interpreting their own dream and don't need you. But people always benefit from an outside perspective. The symbols in the dream have a personal meaning to the dreamer, and without asking them for their associations, as an interpreter you are compromised. It's a "blind reading" and can't be very specific, and could be completely wrong. Now, if a person makes an attempt to understand their own dream, that's important because only the dreamer can ultimately confirm an interpretation, but it doesn't mean they aren't helped by getting an outside perspective.

EDIT: I'll add some answers to your last post.

I'm not a psychologist, just a client of long-term therapy with an interest in Jungian psychology. I don't feel like an authority on dream interpretation, not at all. It's just a hobby and I could be completely wrong about 90% of what I say. I don't know.

I do think that dreams are part of the psyche's attempt to reach a higher level of consciousness and functioning. Where I get this is a combination of science and depth psychology. Scientists who do dream research, these days, see dreams as a mechanism for learning from the days events by rehearsing them. They've done research on rats who spend their days running mazes: they identify certain brain signals that are associated with running mazes, and find that sleeping/dreaming rats activate the same signals.

But then I add a perspective on humanity. First of all, the existence of the unconscious and role it plays in life. Jung made some pretty good observations about this more than 100 years ago. I think that a therapist can get a perspective on the role of the unconscious simply by talking to a lot of people in a nonjudgmental way, and discovering the really obvious fact that there are patterns in their lives they are unaware of. So the dream is rehearsing what you do all day, but much of what you do all day is unconscious to you.

I think that dreams are perspective. It's like an ability to see your blind spots.

-Mike

Gordon 06-06-2013 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike1127
Regarding my perspective toward dreams, at the most basic level I believe they are a rehearsal of life, so in the dream you do all the things you do in life. Except that the dream is speaking from a much broader perspective than the conscious ego. That is what makes it valuable.

Because the dream is speaking of things that the ego doesn't directly experience, the language of dreams needs to be symbolic.

Personally, I don't try to resolve questions about whether I have a soul, whether consciousness is non-material, etc. I think that I can look at a dream as a thing unto itself, and I can act on what it tells me, without needing to have ultimate answers to the nature of life and the universe.

I should add that dreams seem to point to some seed of a potential, often. Let's say that I never go to church, but somewhere in me I know that I should. And let's say that throughout my day I have mini-experiences that are something like being in church. Then I might dream of being in church. In that case, the dream is expressing the potential in the seeds. The dream is still talking about what is actually there, but in this case also expressing where it could go.

-Mike


Thanks for letting us know your position. I think it's very learned and useful.

I do want people to know, however, that I don't come from that perspective. My avatar probably gives that away more than anything else.

I do think dreams have a psychological significance. BUT...I also think dreams are much more than that. I do believe dreams are a communication to us from the spirit world to guide us through the lessons we have to learn in this life path, in this incarnation.

I will try not to step on any toes interpreting this way. :redface:

IsleWalker 06-06-2013 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veridican
Yes, but if a person can interpret their own dream, then they don't need my opinion, and in fact my opinion would only get in their way. It is not my job, as an interpreter, to agree with them, but rather to be as true to my method of interpretation as possible.


Such strange conceptions, Edward. I can interpret my own dreams--I am the only one who can interpret my dreams. But it doesn't mean some of it can't be unclear/still subconscious. In asking for help, I am asking for help in bringing forward what is already there. [Therefore, my belief that I am the only one who can truly know when an interpretation is right.] And just because I have asked about help on some part of the dream, doesn't mean I don't already understand another part of it.

And such low opinions of everyone --that they are only looking for wish fulfillment in their dreams, some confirmation of wonderfulness. I think it is possible my ego gets in the way of accepting an interpretation. If that's true, in my own experience, it keeps niggling at me until I allow the recognition of the rightness that someone has suggested.

And there are many people who are only willing to see the negative about themselves, and not accept the positive. It's common.

Good luck in your endeavors.

Lora

P.S. It does seem that you are more interested in testing yourself than in getting the right interpretation for the person. OK--I get not allowing preconceptions in. That's OK if you're going to make a living at it. But otherwise, there is no cheating involved in asking people what they already know or understand, or to weigh in on your interpretation. This isn't graded!

Gordon 06-06-2013 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike1127
Edward,
I think you are making a false dichotomy. You say that either you should interpret the dream with no input from them, or else they are capable of interpreting their own dream and don't need you. But people always benefit from an outside perspective. The symbols in the dream have a personal meaning to the dreamer, and without asking them for their associations, as an interpreter you are compromised. It's a "blind reading" and can't be very specific, and could be completely wrong. Now, if a person makes an attempt to understand their own dream, that's important because only the dreamer can ultimately confirm an interpretation, but it doesn't mean they aren't helped by getting an outside perspective.


Agreed. I just see it as a matter of roles. My role is to provide "my" interpretation of the dream. The dreamer can do with that whatever they want, but I do not partner with them in that. If I were interpreting from a psychological perspective, that would be a severe handicap, but from a spiritual perspective, their input actually becomes a smoke screen against my intuition.

Some people don't believe the way I believe, so my interpretation would be useless for them. Of course, in my opinion, they should believe the way I believe, and they should take the advice I see in their dreams, but of course that's my opinion.

What I wouldn't want to see is a big debate over this. We know each other's position; we don't agree, but the people who post dreams here might fall into either camp, and we as interpreters are here for the dreamers--or we should be, in my opinion.

MusicMike 06-06-2013 11:26 PM

As far as psychology versus spirit world, I'm with Jung on this one. I don't make a distinction. One way of saying this is a real understanding of psychology includes an understanding of humans as spiritual beings. Another way is to say that all phenomena, whether spiritual or psychological, can be "worked with" in a rational way.

IsleWalker 06-06-2013 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veridican
Agreed. I just see it as a matter of roles. My role is to provide "my" interpretation of the dream. The dreamer can do with that whatever they want, but I do not partner with them in that. If I were interpreting from a psychological perspective, that would be a severe handicap, but from a spiritual perspective, their input actually becomes a smoke screen against my intuition.


Then again, you don't seem the least bit interested in their input--even after the reading. Why not? Would you not perhaps benefit from the "inaccuracies" of your interpretation? Do you have a process for feeding back into "your process"?

Lora

MusicMike 06-06-2013 11:30 PM

Regarding the role of the interpreter, yes I would like each of us to have freedom to do our own thing with it. Some people are looking more for the approach of a psychic, and some more for the approach of a Jungian psychoanalyst (and/or many other perspectives). So we'll each do our own thing with it.


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