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-   -   Please Interpret (it's short) (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=52364)

Gordon 06-06-2013 10:48 PM

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Originally Posted by CrystalSong
That the medication is to dilate pupils is fascinating, this speaks to me of Eye Opening, as in awakening to Bigger pictures. Activating the third eye and so on, very spirit based symbology in the choice of medication.


Opening the third eye. I hadn't thought of that. Very good. :icon_cyclops_ani:

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As to the woman herself, I get no impressions, she feels like a prop to me for showing the medications and the skid row place of No Hope and End.

I hadn't thought of skid row in that way. Thank you for that. Yes.


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A vehicle of sorts to tie elements together. A tour guide through the dreamworld to important stops.

I believe the woman was a guide, yes.

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It would seem your spirit or higher self is calling to you, saying it is time to become aware in higher planes, to not do so is to stay bound to the corporeal reality only which could be seen as skid row a place of No Hope because it is disconnected from the larger being of the Self and only has knowledge of the physical.

Yes, absolutely. That resonates with me as well.

Thank you very much, CrystalSong, for taking the time to look at this. You've been quite helpful to me. :hug2:

Gordon 06-06-2013 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IsleWalker
Edward--

Seems to me that we disagree so fundamentally about this because we disagree about what dreams are.

I feel some dreams are created because we, as consciousness, have experiences at a totally non-visual (non-astral) level. We interact with other consciousness.

Because it's difficult to convey all that is communicated energy-to-energy, consciousness-to-consciousness, we create these visual/auditory/tactile dreams to carry back to our waking consciousness the important lessons of the dream.

When we can't quite understand what a dream means, it's because some of the meaning has not made it back--but I feel it is there to be jogged or brought out.

So, in my world, it is not at all true that dreams are made and should never be messed with after they are "presented". They are not really for the world, they are for me to understand what my own Higher Self has experienced/learned and wishes me to know consciously, in 3D.


I hear what you're saying. That's very interesting, and I will think on that some.

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In your conception--the dream is created for ??the world?

It is a very strange conception, I think. It explains why you are so dismissive of the dreamer's own opinion about what it means.

You have to understand, I'm dismissive of what the dreamer thinks about the dream, because I have to stay objective in order to interpret the message. I'm not dismissive about the dreamer as a person; I just don't want their tendency toward wish fullfilment to interfere with the messages I get from my psychic impression.

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For the record--even if I understand part of a dream, I ask for help (from you or others) because part of it just hasn't yet clicked as conveying the real message from me to me. I may understand what parts of it mean--but not all.

I also believe in the idea that we each have our own, unique sets of symbols that we have developed over this lifetime (and perhaps others). So when I see a curved glass case with "jewels" inside--it ties to DNA, string theory, strings of energy which contain on them the many "lives" I lived and live. But that's just me--literally, just me.

Yes, but if a person can interpret their own dream, then they don't need my opinion, and in fact my opinion would only get in their way. It is not my job, as an interpreter, to agree with them, but rather to be as true to my method of interpretation as possible.


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P.S. And in my opinion, if you do have a gift for doing these readings, it is not out of the realm of possibility that (a) you might not be totally correct or that (b) you might not learn from each one. Expecting that "your gift" is 100% correct from the get-go seems unrealistic. Many people here have abilities, but they are always being honed/improved-upon. That's the basis of growth--we never know it all.

Yes. And my interpretations can be wrong--plain and simple, but I have to make sure that at least initially they are 100% my interpretations and not slanted by any outside influence. Not to mention, what really throws me is a precognitive dream, and I'm always on the look out for some telltale signs of precognition, but I can never be sure. If a dream is precognitive, I could get the dream, interpret it, only to be utterly wrong because what I thought were symbols were not--they were images of a future occurance.

Lucidity is another problem. In a lucid dream, the dreamer is controlling the dream, so that clouds the symbology. The best dream is a vivid weird dream that no one else has yet interpreted and the dreamer doesn't have a clue where the heck it came from. That's the best kind of dream to have. :smile:

Gordon 06-06-2013 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike1127
As I do it, the analysis is always a lot more specific than something like "you have a male/female conflict." If you don't see the usefulness of something vague, I'm with you there.

I believe that dreams are trying to tell us something we aren't consciously acknowledging. And people have a lot of blind spots. So in the metaphor a drowning person might not know they are drowning. They need to be aware of that.

And why become aware of that? Because you can act on that information. Once you become aware you are drowning, you can swim.


Very well stated.

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In the case of your dream, what I would do is work with your associations to the older woman to make it something specific, so that you could actually identify the times she comes out during your daily life. And come up with some concrete meaning of "stealing" so that you can see where in your life you are doing that.

The benefit? Well, you can change what you doing once you are aware of it. It's just hard, as a human being, to get unstuck from a pattern until you are aware of it.

But what do you think the cause of it is? I mean, do you think the mind has some mechanism whereby it attempts to be as health and high functioning as possible? Is that why it produces the dream?


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I could be wrong too, of course. I believe that it is up to the dreamer to confirm what's going on.

I am interested in the details of character and plot structure. I think it's very important.

I place a high value on a dream as "merely" a record of the day's events, because it is telling those events from a perspective the unconscious. A good perspective is a hard thing to come by, in life.


Yes, it is. So, are you a psychologist by any chance? I don't mean that as a challenge or sarcastically, I'm truly curious if that's your profession? You seem like you'd make a good one if you're not. Or would you rather not say?


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Regarding my statement "forget what you think the dream means, and brainstorm": what I mean is temporarily forget about finding a meaning to the dream. Eventually, once you have a list of associations to each dream image, you can start to look for patterns.

What I mean is, brainstorm about each dream image individually before trying to combine them into a larger meaning.

That makes sense to me. Thanks for clarifying.

MusicMike 06-06-2013 11:13 PM

Edward,
I think you are making a false dichotomy. You say that either you should interpret the dream with no input from them, or else they are capable of interpreting their own dream and don't need you. But people always benefit from an outside perspective. The symbols in the dream have a personal meaning to the dreamer, and without asking them for their associations, as an interpreter you are compromised. It's a "blind reading" and can't be very specific, and could be completely wrong. Now, if a person makes an attempt to understand their own dream, that's important because only the dreamer can ultimately confirm an interpretation, but it doesn't mean they aren't helped by getting an outside perspective.

EDIT: I'll add some answers to your last post.

I'm not a psychologist, just a client of long-term therapy with an interest in Jungian psychology. I don't feel like an authority on dream interpretation, not at all. It's just a hobby and I could be completely wrong about 90% of what I say. I don't know.

I do think that dreams are part of the psyche's attempt to reach a higher level of consciousness and functioning. Where I get this is a combination of science and depth psychology. Scientists who do dream research, these days, see dreams as a mechanism for learning from the days events by rehearsing them. They've done research on rats who spend their days running mazes: they identify certain brain signals that are associated with running mazes, and find that sleeping/dreaming rats activate the same signals.

But then I add a perspective on humanity. First of all, the existence of the unconscious and role it plays in life. Jung made some pretty good observations about this more than 100 years ago. I think that a therapist can get a perspective on the role of the unconscious simply by talking to a lot of people in a nonjudgmental way, and discovering the really obvious fact that there are patterns in their lives they are unaware of. So the dream is rehearsing what you do all day, but much of what you do all day is unconscious to you.

I think that dreams are perspective. It's like an ability to see your blind spots.

-Mike

Gordon 06-06-2013 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike1127
Regarding my perspective toward dreams, at the most basic level I believe they are a rehearsal of life, so in the dream you do all the things you do in life. Except that the dream is speaking from a much broader perspective than the conscious ego. That is what makes it valuable.

Because the dream is speaking of things that the ego doesn't directly experience, the language of dreams needs to be symbolic.

Personally, I don't try to resolve questions about whether I have a soul, whether consciousness is non-material, etc. I think that I can look at a dream as a thing unto itself, and I can act on what it tells me, without needing to have ultimate answers to the nature of life and the universe.

I should add that dreams seem to point to some seed of a potential, often. Let's say that I never go to church, but somewhere in me I know that I should. And let's say that throughout my day I have mini-experiences that are something like being in church. Then I might dream of being in church. In that case, the dream is expressing the potential in the seeds. The dream is still talking about what is actually there, but in this case also expressing where it could go.

-Mike


Thanks for letting us know your position. I think it's very learned and useful.

I do want people to know, however, that I don't come from that perspective. My avatar probably gives that away more than anything else.

I do think dreams have a psychological significance. BUT...I also think dreams are much more than that. I do believe dreams are a communication to us from the spirit world to guide us through the lessons we have to learn in this life path, in this incarnation.

I will try not to step on any toes interpreting this way. :redface:

IsleWalker 06-06-2013 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veridican
Yes, but if a person can interpret their own dream, then they don't need my opinion, and in fact my opinion would only get in their way. It is not my job, as an interpreter, to agree with them, but rather to be as true to my method of interpretation as possible.


Such strange conceptions, Edward. I can interpret my own dreams--I am the only one who can interpret my dreams. But it doesn't mean some of it can't be unclear/still subconscious. In asking for help, I am asking for help in bringing forward what is already there. [Therefore, my belief that I am the only one who can truly know when an interpretation is right.] And just because I have asked about help on some part of the dream, doesn't mean I don't already understand another part of it.

And such low opinions of everyone --that they are only looking for wish fulfillment in their dreams, some confirmation of wonderfulness. I think it is possible my ego gets in the way of accepting an interpretation. If that's true, in my own experience, it keeps niggling at me until I allow the recognition of the rightness that someone has suggested.

And there are many people who are only willing to see the negative about themselves, and not accept the positive. It's common.

Good luck in your endeavors.

Lora

P.S. It does seem that you are more interested in testing yourself than in getting the right interpretation for the person. OK--I get not allowing preconceptions in. That's OK if you're going to make a living at it. But otherwise, there is no cheating involved in asking people what they already know or understand, or to weigh in on your interpretation. This isn't graded!

Gordon 06-06-2013 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike1127
Edward,
I think you are making a false dichotomy. You say that either you should interpret the dream with no input from them, or else they are capable of interpreting their own dream and don't need you. But people always benefit from an outside perspective. The symbols in the dream have a personal meaning to the dreamer, and without asking them for their associations, as an interpreter you are compromised. It's a "blind reading" and can't be very specific, and could be completely wrong. Now, if a person makes an attempt to understand their own dream, that's important because only the dreamer can ultimately confirm an interpretation, but it doesn't mean they aren't helped by getting an outside perspective.


Agreed. I just see it as a matter of roles. My role is to provide "my" interpretation of the dream. The dreamer can do with that whatever they want, but I do not partner with them in that. If I were interpreting from a psychological perspective, that would be a severe handicap, but from a spiritual perspective, their input actually becomes a smoke screen against my intuition.

Some people don't believe the way I believe, so my interpretation would be useless for them. Of course, in my opinion, they should believe the way I believe, and they should take the advice I see in their dreams, but of course that's my opinion.

What I wouldn't want to see is a big debate over this. We know each other's position; we don't agree, but the people who post dreams here might fall into either camp, and we as interpreters are here for the dreamers--or we should be, in my opinion.

MusicMike 06-06-2013 11:26 PM

As far as psychology versus spirit world, I'm with Jung on this one. I don't make a distinction. One way of saying this is a real understanding of psychology includes an understanding of humans as spiritual beings. Another way is to say that all phenomena, whether spiritual or psychological, can be "worked with" in a rational way.

IsleWalker 06-06-2013 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veridican
Agreed. I just see it as a matter of roles. My role is to provide "my" interpretation of the dream. The dreamer can do with that whatever they want, but I do not partner with them in that. If I were interpreting from a psychological perspective, that would be a severe handicap, but from a spiritual perspective, their input actually becomes a smoke screen against my intuition.


Then again, you don't seem the least bit interested in their input--even after the reading. Why not? Would you not perhaps benefit from the "inaccuracies" of your interpretation? Do you have a process for feeding back into "your process"?

Lora

MusicMike 06-06-2013 11:30 PM

Regarding the role of the interpreter, yes I would like each of us to have freedom to do our own thing with it. Some people are looking more for the approach of a psychic, and some more for the approach of a Jungian psychoanalyst (and/or many other perspectives). So we'll each do our own thing with it.


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