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bobjob 25-04-2022 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still_Waters
BigJohn had indicated that the Spirits gave significant "prophecies" so this seems very relevant to the nature of Spirit communication.

As this thread is about the history of the movement and religion of Spiritualism I'll totally accept as fair any quoted words linked to that history. What I had queried, however, were some of the references which to me didn't appear to link to that history. I readily admit that could be down to my ignorance of those details and I am comfortable with anyone helping me address that ignorance. Then I'll follow how they link present-day Spiritualism back to words from way back when.

Quote:

How reliable is communication with the Spirits? That is the point.
I think that's pretty easy to answer - it varies. In terms of prophecies the proof of the pudding will lie in its eating. Where prophecies are seen to have been authentic then communication appears to have been reliable. Where they're not then doubt creeps in. Their significance is moot unless they're very obviously above challenge.

BigJohn 25-04-2022 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still_Waters
QUOTE 77 EXCERPT:




The Yoga Vashistha story (Lila and the king) which my teacher translated many years ago says exactly the same thing that Swedenborg said ... one is living in a "reality" that one creates for one's self. :D

As far as Swedenborg actually going to Heaven and Hell first hand, Charles Leadbeater (Theosophical Society) claims to have personally witnessed the many heavens and hells that the multitudes create. Which heaven and hell did Swedenborg visit? :biggrin:


Thanks for the nice confirmation about 'living in a "realty" that one creates for oneself'. Some of those 'realities' come with 'absolutes' for what they are suppose to believe.

As for Heaven and Hell: Swedenborg refers to Heaven and Hell in his book "Heaven and its Wonders and Hell From Things Heard and Seen" in the singular but believed in a multi-tier Heaven and Hell, something the Latter Day Saints (Mormons) would perpetuate.

BigJohn 25-04-2022 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still_Waters
QUOTE 69 EXCERPT:



I have read the posts that you are citing now, and I agree with you that it seems obvious that the creation accounts were written by different persons or groups.

However, I'm trying to connect what you are writing now to your statement about Samuel's spirit communications being so noteworthy.:confused:


In the account, Samuel heard his name called, I believed 3 separate times. He thought it was the person who was in charge of the Temple but it turned out, it was God. Samuel did not know what God sounded like. That is the part I found very interesting.
Then God gave Samuel a very important message that later was given to the person in charge of the 'temple'. The message spoke of imminent doom for that person, his family and others. Shortly afterwards, that message was fulfilled.

Still_Waters 26-04-2022 01:06 PM

QUOTE 81 EXCERPT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobjob

Where prophecies are seen to have been authentic then communication appears to have been reliable. Where they're not then doubt creeps in. Their significance is moot unless they're very obviously above challenge.


Regarding the nature of prophecy, my spiritual mentor was once asked if she could tell the future. Although she initially refused to answer the question by responding "I don't know", she eventually did respond to the pure young fellow who had asked the question. She said that one who is "pure of heart" can indeed see the course of human events with as high as 99+% certainty at times. However, she immediately added that, if a person's will is strong enough, that person can mobilize whatever resources are needed to accomplish whatever they want with no exceptions whatsoever. Therefore, one is advised to NEVER TELL THE FUTURE.

Having said that, I am particularly wary when people (or spirits as related to the theme of this thread) "tell the future" as if it is predestined and cast in concrete.

When I talk about prophecy, I often refer to the Prophet Jeremias who saw the future as POSSIBILITIES with certain possibilities being more likely than others. Unfortunately, King Zedekiah did not follow his advice (according to the Biblical narrative) and the destruction of Jerusalem with the subsequent Babylonian Captivity is now history.

As a corollary to this, a meditator with a clear mind can similarly see possible outcomes to certain developing situations and intuitively decide how best to proceed from the perspective of the "Big Picture" beyond the realms of the five senses and intellectualism. One certainly doesn't need spirit communication for this.

Still_Waters 26-04-2022 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn
Thanks for the nice confirmation about 'living in a "realty" that one creates for oneself'. Some of those 'realities' come with 'absolutes' for what they are suppose to believe.

As for Heaven and Hell: Swedenborg refers to Heaven and Hell in his book "Heaven and its Wonders and Hell From Things Heard and Seen" in the singular but believed in a multi-tier Heaven and Hell, something the Latter Day Saints (Mormons) would perpetuate.



I am glad that you appreciated the "nice confirmation about living in a reality that one creates for one's self".

I did a quick search for the story of Lila and the King; this was the first version that I found. It might not be the best version, but at least it will familiarize you with the story.

https://www.swami-krishnananda.org/u...sality_09.html

Regarding heavens and hells, I occasionally attend zoom Spiritist meetings and they have a decidedly Christian flavor. The thought has crossed my mind that the Spirit(s) with whom they are communicating do NOT see the "Big Picture" but only are "living in a reality" (using your terminoloy) created by their Christian orientation. Their meetings are so Christian-oriented that I go there less and less frequently since they don't seem to see the Big Picture as well as sages who are still in their corporeal form.

Still_Waters 26-04-2022 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn
In the account, Samuel heard his name called, I believed 3 separate times. He thought it was the person who was in charge of the Temple but it turned out, it was God. Samuel did not know what God sounded like. That is the part I found very interesting.
Then God gave Samuel a very important message that later was given to the person in charge of the 'temple'. The message spoke of imminent doom for that person, his family and others. Shortly afterwards, that message was fulfilled.


Thank you for elaborating on the Samuel prophecy. :thumbsup:

NOTE: I just responded above to Bobjob on the nature of "prophecy" so I won't repeat my comments on prophecy here. :biggrin:

bobjob 26-04-2022 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still_Waters
Regarding heavens and hells, I occasionally attend zoom Spiritist meetings and they have a decidedly Christian flavor.

That's one reason I regularly say that Spiritism isn't Spiritualism.... Mind you Christian Spiritualism is equally - or maybe more - Christianity orientated and I find that religion doesn't sit well with me either.



Quote:

The thought has crossed my mind that the Spirit(s) with whom they are communicating do NOT see the "Big Picture" but only are "living in a reality" (using your terminology) created by their Christian orientation.
There's a distinct possibility/probability this is exactly the case. As I've pointed out elsewhere in other conversations, those who are heavily indoctrinated by a particular faith/belief/religion may continue to be attracted to it after their passing. Also they may continue to mix with others of a similar persuasion. (I think Silver Birch in recorded sessions commented on such situations.) It would be totally understandable, then, if spirit communicators demonstrated their continuing association with the values found in those earth-life beliefs. Given that situation we should be wary of heeding ideas from such spirit individuals.

bobjob 26-04-2022 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still_Waters
Regarding the nature of prophecy, my spiritual mentor was once asked if she could tell the future. Although she initially refused to answer the question by responding "I don't know", she eventually did respond to the pure young fellow who had asked the question......... Therefore, one is advised toNEVER TELL THE FUTURE.

As I have written times-many, there is no such thing as THE future in the sense that it's invariable and unchangeable. There are possibilities and probabilities we can all take a stab at but some of our friends unseen - those perhaps more interested in matters of the physical world - will likely see more of the factors that will greatly influence events and lead to a particular outcome.

This next remark isn't directly related to the thread title but is related to Spiritualism so I hope I'll be forgiven for mentioning it. Our Spiritualist mediums, the ones being helped/developed and operating within the Spiritualists' National Union's church network in the UK, are told not to "tell the future" (i.e. their attempt at so doing) and to focus on the simple message of survival and on healing if that's their specialty. Otherwise it might be a misleading distraction having mediums giving an 'end-of-the-pier' type of mostly psychic reading which appears to be mediumship because of the established church setting.

Still_Waters 27-04-2022 01:01 PM

QUOTE 87 EXCERPT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobjob


There's a distinct possibility/probability this is exactly the case. As I've pointed out elsewhere in other conversations, those who are heavily indoctrinated by a particular faith/belief/religion may continue to be attracted to it after their passing.

Given that situation we should be wary of heeding ideas from such spirit individuals.


WOW ! I have been thinking about this for some time since I started to attend Spiritist meetings from time to time and your post RESONATES COMPLETELY with my understanding. :thumbsup:

As you duly pointed out, I too have become very wary of heeding ideas from such spirit individuals.

Still_Waters 27-04-2022 01:08 PM

QUOTE 88 EXCERPT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobjob
As I have written times-many, there is no such thing as THE future in the sense that it's invariable and unchangeable. There are possibilities and probabilities we can all take a stab at but some of our friends unseen - those perhaps more interested in matters of the physical world - will likely see more of the factors that will greatly influence events and lead to a particular outcome.



Once again, we are in COMPLETE AGREEMENT :thumbsup: and I am not accustomed to being so agreeable. :biggrin:

It's also good to know that the Spiritists have been advised never to tell the future. That is exactly what my teacher advised. I become immediately wary of those who predict the future as if it were predestined and cast in concrete.

Thank you for sharing. :thumbsup:


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