Originally Posted by ThatMan

Genesis 3:16 "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

What is this telling you? We know that Adam and Eve had two children after the fall and then Cain found a wife in a distant place but there's no information about more people other than the four so it's the general assumption that they had more children.What if they had more children and these children were born before the fall, how could Eve understand the increasing of the pain of birth if she never experienced it before?

Originally Posted by sky123

Where did Cain's wife come from?

Originally Posted by ThatMan

This is what I am saying, Cain's wife is Adam and Eve's child that was born prior to the fall, my guess is that they were all ( their children ) spread across the whole Earth after the fall, how could Eve understand the pains of giving birth? Cain and Abel were born after the fall.

This is not my final opinion, this is why I am creating a "debate" here so we can hear more opinions.

Originally Posted by sky123

Incest :icon_eek: he married his Sister.... I very much doubt it.

Originally Posted by ThatMan

I know, this is usually the common belief, so what do you think, based on the old testament scriptures? I know you have your belief, but based on what was written in the OT.

My point is that Adam and Eve could have had children before the fall, otherwise Eve would not understand the increasing of the pains of child birth.

Originally Posted by sky123

No fall, no garden of Eden, just Evolution. :smile: They are just stories, not actual events...

Originally Posted by ThatMan

I know you have your beliefs and I respect them, but the focus is on the christian scriptures, from a christian perspective, what do you think, it's possible that Eve could have had already children prior to the fall? That verse leaves this option open to interpretation but to me it seems they already had children.

Originally Posted by JosephineBloggs

How about this:


Originally Posted by NoOne
Not sure if somebody else has already mentioned this, but the archetypes in the Fall of Man / Garden of Eden are pre-Christian and are shared across many cultures.

The tree of life is the Human Body's energetic system. This is even acknowledged in Cabbala.

Adam is the Male creative principle (Shiva in Hinduism)
Eve is the female Creative principle (Shakti in Hinduism)

The Serpent is Kundalini. It can give the gift of eternal life and / or infinite knowledge. It is symbolised by the apple, because it is the fruit that is most obviously of a toroid shape, another key to the mysteries of the Universe.

The fruit of the tree of eternal life / infinite knowledge refers to the same substance that is known as Nectar/Ambrosia to the Greeks and Soma/Amrita to the Hindus. Drinking of this is what gives the gods their immortality and unlimited knowledge. It is actually liquid light, which floods the brain upon illumination.

Those that are enlightened, drink of the Soma/Nectar constantly, giving them longevity, but chiefly, intuitive knowledge and a connection the divine. The Halo shown around saints signifies this illumination, resulting from the constant flow of Soma/Nectar into the brain.


The fall of man signifies man's fall from grace, from his previous divine state into that of gross matter. The serpent is shown wrapped around the tree of life facing downwards, which signifies the fall of the Kundalini from its exalted position of contact with the divine to "slithering in the dust".

The Gnostics would agree with this explanation, though the Roman church would vehemently deny it of course.

Sorry, if this was too esoteric, but explaining these concepts properly would require several books, this is a very simplistic attempt at arriving at a synthesis of the various facts available in different cultures and religious/spiritual traditions.