The dark side of I AM.
 

An insight. I am on the dark side of I AM. Have been barking up the wrong tree because for many years I thought I had problems with God. But in fact my relationship with God is fine. When it comes to I AM or the universal 'I' then I fall to pieces.

To be on the wrong side of I AM is horrible. It is painful, scary and unstable. Having realised my predicament I am working to heal it and slowly day by day I improve. A Freudian analyst would have a field day with me.

The 'I am ' or Self is beyond the pair of opposites.

A positive side or dark side implies the egoic mind ( rather than the Self) which perceives the field of opposites and sees duality and differences instead of unity.

Meaning that there is no dark side of I AM? Well it is thought to be possible to be on the dark side of God, so why not I AM? I am thinking that I am so out of touch with my true self, that I am in its dark side??

"I Am" is firmly within duality as it's of mind. So yeah, it has light and dark sides. In Ramana Maharshi's "Who Am I?" he explains Vedantic Self-inquiry following the sense of "I Am" will eventually take one beyond "I Am". That's the "space" of Self also known as Atman and by extension Brahman. It's that "space" of utter stillness and silence. I believe he phrases it something like "the mind is quiescent".

What I would suggest, what helped me, is to read the Shiva stories as allegory. And relate his story to your own way of being. As a kind of role model of one who has already been there. The story of Shiva relates to how one knows their true self and so becomes a master of the world.

Metaphors are a good way to bridge out when lost in the mind. Instead of allowing your existence to be challenged and getting lost in endless ideas trying to find yourself, which was never lost in the first place, you maintain self awareness and witness yourself playing out the timeless story also played out by countless others. A way to make it a bit less personal but in a good way. Because now you are a part of the larger story and your right to exist as an individual is also preserved without question. So no fears are triggered while you consider the enormity of the greater whole.

The dark side is when you loose perspective as the witness of your circumstance and start relating to the world on it's terms instead of who you truly are. Becoming lost in distractions. Allowing passionate ideas from others to invade your mind and take you for a ride and take you to the cleaners. Shiva, in his wisdom and with impeccable discipline, would never allow that. The point being, you can be involved with the world but never allow distractions to cause you to loose the focus of your being while doing so.

Om Namah Shivaya

Hi Justasimpleguy,

Just checking. Is the 'I am' the fundamental ego-thought , and of the mind !

As per Ramana the ego is the 'I' thought.

Ego is 'I-thought'. In its subtle form it remains a thought, whereas in its gross aspect it embraces the mind, the senses and the body. ~ Ramana Maharshi

The 'I am' is stated by Nisargadatta to not be a thought or modification of the mind.

I think Ramana is using the term 'I am' just like Awareness to refer to the Self. And he uses the verbal word and thought of 'I am' just as a reference point in communication for teaching purposes.

But ultimately, the 'I am' is not a thought but beyond thought and mind. It is non-conceptual.

Oh, Honza, buddy, you're not on the dark side!!! :hug2:

It's a "knowing" beyond mind and hence beyond thought. For this I like the Kena Upanishad. It's that "nor do I think that I do not know it" whereas ""I do not think I know it well" is of mind.

https://www.hinduwebsite.com/sacreds...arama/kena.asp

II. The disciple said: I do not think I know It well, nor do I think that I do not know It. He among us who knows It truly, knows (what is meant by) "I know" and also what is meant by "I know It not."

It certainly feels like I am. Imagine being on the wrong side of your own 'I'. It can be terrible for me at times.

You couldn't even if you tried.
Confusion leads to clarity.
We all use light and dark all the time. This is how this reality is set up.
If you what to know what the dark is, it is pure control of oneself and others.
And we all use control to some degree. It would be impossible to be in this reality without using it.

Honza,

In other traditions…namely Christian, it is the temptation in the desert…..in that case, returning to God is returning to your true Self….

I must admit that I tend to see it this way too. I am praying to Christ to help me regarding this situation. Because I am not in the know about who or what the 'true self' is I tend to shuffle around in the dark.

'The wound is the place where the Light enters you.' ~ Rumi

I believe the True Light only enters in the deepest and darkest place, so even though it feels oppressive, maybe you’re heading in the right direction. You could read about the life of Saint Seraphim of Sarov, he struggled and he prayed, and in the end he found the True Light.

The true Self is your own nature. It is the simplest thing in the world to know.

However that which veils the Self is the complex egoic mind.

The degree of the complexity of the egoic mind determines the difficulty to attain Self-knowlege or know your own Self. The more the complexity, the harder it is to know the Self.

This is why austerities have been prescribed in Hinduism. The satsang or company of saints and especially enlightened sages also helps a lot. The Self is the subtlest , and it takes a lot of sensitivity to perceive it within oneself.

Incessant craving for pleasure through the senses and the perpetual demand for their satisfaction brings about dullness, grossness and insensitivity in the long run.

The austerities (tapas) purify the body and mind, brings about heightened sensitivity and thereby one is able to perceive the Self within oneself.

The austerities in general have been mentioned in the Bhagavad Gita.( 17.14 - 17.16)




Adherence to the yama niyamas, disciplined lifestyle, abstinence from intoxicants, being in company of sages and saints, reading or listening to the scriptural teachings (sravana), contemplation (manana) and diligent application (nidhidhyasana) all comprise austerities too.

I also wonder if I have annoyed the Hindu Gods by demeaning them. As I was learning about Hinduism and I AM I would often lash out at them. I still feel that the path of self realisation is not the true path. I disregard it in favour of Christ. I sense hostility from Hinduism....

:icon_eek: Now your in biggggggg trouble :D

Well you know what they say about Kali....

Me? I don't think God, the Creator of All That Is, by whatever name -
cares 'how' you acknowledge Him or love Him or find Him.

Miss Hepburn,

Perhaps it is just semantics…..but I prefer the focus that Christ realization implies. It sort of removes the idea that it is all about me…..

As do all the others :smile:

God loves you regardless, warts and all :smile:

Very straightforward statement - however it is prone to being invalidated. Time and time again.

One of the reasons I prefer Christ is that He offers sanctuary. He is someone I can relate to. Life is full of danger, and dangerous characters. Christ is a pillar of strength and solidarity amongst it all.

I have approached other Gods only to find they lack warmth and humanity. I have been betrayed by close friends and celestial beings. It teaches me caution.

Having said that I also need to be aware that I may be creating this hardship for myself....

Honza,

I feel for you…indecision can allow is to vacillate between differing philosophies. It is difficult to serve multiple masters. The danger of this indecision IMO is that you might miss the depth of any of them. Many believe that all roads lead to God. If there is any truth to this maybe it is best to follow one map. At any rate….good luck to you……:)

Honza...I have been drawn to your threads since I just got on SF after a long absence and find myself in need of deep healing by means of forgiveness, acceptance and general compassion. Like so many of us, I know I've judged myself harshly and had a lot of suppressed grief and anger that hasn't been properly expressed. I haven't really had too much time for myself either, so...

First...I would say the God you resonate with is the God for you. It is all One, so it's all good.

The other item is...you are your heart centre and your inner child. You and they are just aspects of what many call your higher self. I would just say these are all aspects of your authetic self. Or, who you are at core. Not to blow your mind in a bad way...but this is also where all that is God-like resonates. There is only who and what you are, no matter when or where you are, right?

That is, when you express (or repress) deep emotions and judgments toward yourself...when speak to your higher self or your heart centre...good or bad, there is no distance between you and God or Jesus or whomever in that moment. So...and this is really not easy...being angry or unaccepting or harsh or unforgiving with yourself...is not intended for "God" or Jesus or whomever...but it amounts to the same thing because there is no distance in the heart centre.

That's the kicker. I was just so busy surviving that I ignored my pain for weeks or months & just endured the pain. But it's also "the same" to the universe and to the heart centre as me neglecting God & universe. OR as being angry at God, Jesus, universe, etc.

So as not to be too neglectful or too mean or hard on God & universe -- my guides, my close soul fam -- I had to just focus on my heart centre. On healing it and releasing my grief & anger. Out of duty and love, seriously, I was reminded to care for myself so my heart centre doesn't hurt others. What else motivates someone who has gone through the abnegation of the soul across lifetimes, LOL...it's the realisation that abnegation ultimately means you must remember to care for the soul on behalf of God & others, as well as for yourself. That these are all ultimately the same under One Spirit. However, me me me just isn't going to be a motivation for some of us, no matter what our amoral and utilitarian culture tells us. I don't find them to be overly helpful in relating to me as I am, at core. In my experience, that has never led the soul down the path of right alignment. For me, it's justice and balance in authentic love...me equally to others, and me equally for others, that resonates and empowers me for myself.

For me, it helps to realise I'm connected and that my state of being affects others so I need to own and care for it. So (unlike what we've been told) I'm not being selfish to focus on myself...rather I'm actually being selfish by ignoring my pain for too long, because it hurts me and also spills over in spirit. I wonder if this sort of perspective might help you too? The forgiveness & acceptance you give to yourself is work you do in service to God and others, equally to yourself.

I find it has helped me because it gives me permission to focus on myself (head of household, single mom, sole support, no time...etc) for what you might call selfless reasons, like care for and connection to others, the greater good, God & universe, etc. And...it reminds me that authentic love is caring for the self equally to others, and for others equally to the self. Here I particularly mean those others close to you &/or closely connected to you at the soul level, but it applies in any other sense as well.

Peace & blessings,
7L

You seem highly confused. You are talking about Hinduism and 'I am' and Christianity and mixing it up all together into a shapeless lump thinking you are creating a gastronomical masterpiece. It is like mixing up pizza, yoghurt, wine and pudding and then wondering why it tastes so bad. :icon_puke_r:

If you are in favor of Christ, then follow that path meticulously. Why talk about 'I am' and Hindu God and so on!


Kali, Hanuman and Krishna are warriors from the pits of hell. They are not for the soft-hearted and namby-pamby.

Even Satan and his demons would appear to be sweet, innocent angels in front of them. Beware! :icon_eek:

As per Hindu philosophy, the 'I am' or state of awareness is beyond the pair of opposites of relative light and darkness.

Hence the very thread title is misleading itself, and does injustice to the Advaitan philosophy.

Those who are unable to comprehend the advaitan or nondual philosophy is welcome to adopt the devotional dualistic philosophies in Hinduism or other religions.

The nondual or dual philosophies all lead to the same goal, just as all paths or climbing routes in a mountain lead to the same summit.

The nondual philosophy or Advaita pertain to Jnana Yoga (yoga of the intellect) ,and is quite demanding in terms of intellectual rigor and focus. I have noticed that it is mainly scientists and highly educated people or scholars who are able to comprehend it with precision as they have a trained intellect and are capable of deep, accurate and systematic thinking.


The devotional paths are much more easier and safer as well as there is not much demands on the intellect, but more on feeling.

One should understand one's temperament and seek suitable philosophies accordingly.

Not comprehending the philosophy and engaging in bashing it and the religion reminds one of the fable of the fox and the sour grapes. :rolleyes:

I shall do what is necessary to find peace and to make peace with one and all.

Well, it is actually possible that Hindu philosophy does not understand I AM any more than I do. We all make mistakes. Here at SF there is monumental clashing of religions and spiritual paths. I need to find my way amongst it all.

This is such a hugely important point, 7L, thank you for bringing it up :hug: Because whilst it might seem counter-intuitive on the face of it, self-care and self-love don't just serve us, as you say, it serves everyone we come into contact with - I'm a firm believer that, as the likes of Ramana Maharshi have said, our greatest gift to the world is our own awakening (or healing - I think the two things tend to go hand-in-hand).

HumanB, agreed...very much so. And it's not just the doing, or how we behave and how we treat others. It's also in the being, or simply how we are, and how that impacts others with whom we are interconnected as people and as souls.

It's a suble thing from the exterior, but from the interior connections of the spirit...it's as subtle as a rock in your chest. What I have to keep in mind is that guides and close soul fam and the like -- even my cat, LOL -- they feel it directly as pain, just as I do. And I have to get with the program going forward, because keeping it to myself is something that doesn't exist at a certain level. So you have to clean up your pain and stuff, so to speak, and thus avoid sharing the pain wherever possible. Interbeing is a great joy but also a reminder of our responsibility toward others.

This is why Rabbi Nachman of Breslov spoke of his personal failing to be joyous in his day to day life, due to in his case persistent low mood. It's not just failing to be grateful "to God"..."God" and universe ok with your failings (aside from the fact that you and others are hurting), LOL. I used to wonder why R. Nachman was so fussed. But I understand it differently now. It's your guides & soul fam who feel your emotional pain...it's them you're really hurting, in addition to your own heart centre.

Peace & blessings :hug3:
7L

Absolutely, 7L, and this is a timely reminder for me because I'm experiencing irritability and low mood myself just at the minute, and I can see how it's affecting those around me - it's a real challenge to be around people at the moment, and I end up hating myself for being uncommunicative and cranky. I just want to be by myself for the most part.

Anyway, not to make it all about me... I hope you're doing well, 7L.