The Spiritualists, who do not believe in reincarnation today, claim reincarnation has not been proved.

As for early, Modern Day Spiritualists such as the Fox Sisters and Mother, those people had not been exposed to reincarnation therefore did not know about that Eastern belief.

Reincarnation was actually a belief in a number of early Christian communities dating back as far as the 2nd Century, it was also mentioned/found in a number of Gospels that didn't make it into the Canon.

I'd be interested in hearing how many contributors to this thread are actually Spiritualists as opposed to folk just writing about Spiritualism. I know only of a couple and that includes me. :wink:

And me.:biggrin:

QUOTE 116 EXCERPT:


Ramana Maharshi has explicitly said that "the reincarnating ego is of the lower planes". :biggrin: (That is my understanding as well.)

On another occasion, when asked about reincarnation,Ramana simply replied that reincarnation was what they taught in the temples.

There are indeed some "spiritually evolved individuals" who do "no accept the notion of reincarnation" .... except on the lower planes.

That is precisely why I am curious about the history of reincarnation in Spiritism and Spiritualism.

Are you once again advocating that only Spiritualist can post on this Forum?
That would 'surely' reduce the number of people who could post on this Forum.

By the way, what are your credentials?

My post on Swedenborg was based strictly on the information provided by BigJohn on Swedenborg's beliefs. I did not fact-check it as BigJohn's info is consistently reliable.

I can't answer your question on how Swedenborg links to Spiritualism and its history.

Thank you for your two responses to my questions. :thumbsup:

Proof of reincarnation can indeed be challenging as there are alternate explanations for phenomenon presented as proofs of reincarnation.

Swedenborg first talked about Spiritualism in the 1700's but it was the fox sisters that bought it into the open in the 1800's.:smile:

............ and the Fox Sisters and Mother did not believe in Reincarnation.

...............But it's open for discussion, like all things Spiritual.:biggrin:

Did Spiritualism actually exist under that name in the 1700s? :confused: I know of it only from the time it emerged recently when - as you mentioned - the Hydesville events took place, later leading to what became the movement, religion and philosophy known as Modern Spiritualism.

I did suggest I was an ignoramus!

It's all-but-impossible to prove reincarnation happens just as it's all-but-impossible to prove we survive beyond the death of our body. But there is an abundance of evidence that we do survive death when those we know and love return to reassure us they're very much alive and well.

Despite all the evidence, some individuals may never accept even survival and evidence of apparent reincarnation may be less persuasive. It's hard to rule out the possibility that details apparently experienced and seemingly remembered may be being communicated by an overshadowing spirit.

Whatever the truth of the situation - and despite my being a Spiritualist - I am totally persuaded that reincarnation is available for all but not compulsory for any. blessings :hug3:

What you say is correct some people wont or don't want to believe in Reincarnation.
But I know its true I have lived many life times and i can remember a lot of them.

When my son was about 6 he went on a school trip they went to a Stately Home not far from here. he wouldn't go into the House. He said I used to work here before i used to clean shoes for the people who lived in the house.
and they used to hit us.

About 2 years before i had my youngest child I had an Ectopic pregnancy I was one minute away from Death when i finally went to surgery,
a few months later i miscarried and I knew that i should not have miscarried,
a few months later I found I was Expecting again.
When I had my daughter the surgeon came to see me and he told me I have never seen anything like it, it is a miracle that she was Born.

When she was 18 months old she said to me I should have been born before but i had a different name. but i had to go back but now im back as me.
she told me the name that she was given.
so yes Reincarnation does Exist.


Namaste

QUOTE 134 EXCERPT: It is also my understanding that one's non-physical essence does survive in some way after physical death.

Wouldn't that be a pre-requisite for reincarnation?

Thank you Nativespirit for your post regarding Reincarnation.it puts my mind to rest.(I truly believe in Reincarnation of some sort) and bobjob,I dont think Spiritualism had a proper name when Swedenborg mentioned it in the 1700's,it was only when it came to light in later years.

It's as I suspected then. I don't know what he wrote about as I'm not a historian but it seems it wasn't about Spiritualism as it didn't exist in any constituted form.

Spiritualism has always existed, but it was late being discovered.:biggrin:

Contact and communication with discarnates - 'spirits' - may have always taken place but 'Spiritualism' was founded only in recent times.

Please do remember that Spiritualism does not have a monopoly on spirit contact/communication and/or on mediumship. There are likely to be many mediums (and even more psychics/sensitives!) who have nothing at all to do with Spiritualism.

And although it's easy for me to define the essence of being a Spiritualist it doesn't mean anyone matching such a definition would necessarily see herself/himself as a Spiritualist or want others to refer to her/him that way. :wink:

bobjob, you're talking in riddles again. Call it what you will, it's just another label. It has been around since the beginning of life on earth (and before).It's not just about medium ship and other labels. It's Spiritual life(consciousness) that created us and everything around us!
Now I'm off to work take care.:smile:

Sorry, but I thought bobjob was clear.

Yes. The understanding that the "non physical essence survives physical death in some way" would indeed be a necessary but not sufficient prerequisite for reincarnation.

Ancillary Note: Buddhists use the term "rebirth" which has a nuance subtly different from "reincarnation".

Hi,I'm back briefly....it's just all those labels(names),it's like compartmenting things(separating).Spirituality is supposed to flow, it's all around us. How or if you are able to communicate with it is your own affair.
Not all the folk who have the gift are able to communicate in one set way.:smile:
Right,off again.

"....a necessary but not sufficient prerequisite...." :confused: I do not understand what that undelined phrase is intended to mean. :confused:

subtly different? It's a distinction without a difference in my eyes but I anyway prefer 'further incarnation' because it avoids the huge amount of baggage associated with 'reincarnation'.

Nevertheless the word reincarnation is what others use so I mostly do the same when responding.

I don't "talk in riddles" and I'm very careful about what I write. :mad:

What you were referring to is not Spirtualism. It's simply spirit communication which may well have been around from the time humankind emerged in its present form and maybe even longer than that. It would have been happening long before Spiritualism emerged as a movement, a philosophy and a religion.

Spiritualism is of course founded on spirit communication through mediumship but spirit communication through mediumship is also found OUTSIDE of Spiritualism.

Spiritualism has no monopoly on transdimensional communication.

And nobody had suggested they do..... The mode of communication is largely irrelevant in TDC.

What's communicated - the message of whatever kind - is what matters. NOT the manner in which it's communicated.

Yes - that's spirit communication! Isn't it what I've said repeatedly????? :confused:

As a side note, Emmanuel Swedenborg is generally know as the "Father of Spiritualism".

Swedenborg wrote something we might relate to. It reads: "In the middle of the day at dinner an Angel spoke to me, and told me not to eat too much at table. Whilst he was with me, there plainly appeared to me a kind of vapour steaming from the pores of my body."

It appears that Emmanuel Swedenborg recorded his 'notes' in a Spiritual Diary.

Let's examine that "side note" statement and compare it with its apparent source, should we? In 'Swedenborghouseblog' (https://swedenborgsociety.wordpress....el-swedenborg/ ) I found a reference similar to the one you've made and I've quoted it verbatim below. Importantly it's not exactly what you've claimed.....

"Heaven and Hell is a book that has brought great comfort to many over the last 250 years. Some have seen Swedenborg as the ‘father’ of spiritualism, although he himself believed he had been granted special gifts by God which were not to be used for trivial purposes and were not available to everybody. Others have dismissed Swedenborg as an inventor of pretty fairy tales (and this is perhaps why his theology has not, on the whole, been taken seriously by the Christian churches), while some have even considered him to have been insane."

Not as clear cut as your one-liner "side note" I think you'd agree. :wink:

Much more to the point, do Spiritualists see Swedenborg as the father of Spiritualism? I look forward to your further comment. blessings :hug3:

History of Spiritualism vol 1, 1926
 

As I've said several times I'm not a historian but a bit of research revealed the following.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, famed for his Sherlock Holme character and books, is said to have had ”...a brilliant and deductive mind, one that was razor-sharp with insight. ” Doyle is said to have used those qualities when probing Spiritualism and after a thorough investigation publicly proclaimed himself a Spiritualist time after time. (SNU review of History of Spiritualism vol 1)

Doyle gives over the first 16 pages of the first book of his treatise on the history of Spiritualism to Swedenborg. (I downloaded this book in PDF form) The author speaks effusively about the man before concluding: “He was a very great seer, a great pioneer of psychic knowledge, and his weakness lay in those very words which he has written.”

The impression I gained from Doyle is that Swedenborg’s ideas were often in line with what’s found in Modern Spiritualism but as an actual Spiritualist - rather than having just an academic interest in Spiritualism - I remain unpersuaded he should be considered the father of Spiritualism.

The History of Spiritualism
 

For anyone interested in the history of Spiritualism the following, authored by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, may be of help.

The History of Spiritualism, vol 1, Project Gutenberg Australia:

https://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0301051h.html

The History of Spiritualism, vol 2, Project Gutenberg Australia:

https://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0301061h.html

The Wandering of a Spiritualist, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Project Gutenberg Australia:

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/3971...-h/39718-h.htm

I'm sure other sources of information are available and the above are especially relevant to Spiritualism as found in the UK but I expect they will have relevance for the versions of Spiritualism evident in North America - where many SF members live - and in Australia.

This article does a decent job of describing the difference between rebirth and reincarnation.

https://medium.com/@xsm918/comparing...m-2cb498c4041a

EXCERPT:

In conclusion, Buddhism regards rebirth as a flow of life from one to the other, while Hinduism views it as an actual soul changing the bodies it inhabits. ........ It seems that Buddhism and Hinduism beliefs about reincarnation are more different than alike.

NOTE: Even Hindu adepts like Ramana Maharshi have tactfully said that "the reincarnating ego is of the lower planes" and that "reincarnation is what they teach the masses in the temple".

Your choice of "further incarnation" is very well worded.

Still_Waters,
you have presented some very nice points on re-birth and reincarnation. I suspect when people talk about reincarnation, I don't think they fully relate to the Eastern beliefs on the subject. For example, the idea that a soul can reincarnate into an animal appears to be repugnant to Westerners. And then there is reincarnation into a mineral, mountain, plant, etc. which appears to be a typical taboo subject in the West.

bobjob,
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle does include Emmanuel Swedenborg in the 'lineage' of Spiritualism, that is, the Spiritualism before Modern Day Spiritualism.

As for my comment "As a side note, Emmanuel Swedenborg is generally known as the "Father of Spiritualism"" is an opinion that some have noted about Swedenborg. As I have previously mentioned, Spiritualism seems to have always existed and shows up in various other religions. When it shows up in other religions, it is generally referenced as Animism. Animism is considered by some to be the oldest belief system, probably because it is a 'natural' religion not bogged down with 'rules'.

I personally cannot see any connection in Animism and Spiritualism :confused:

Perhaps you might want to read what I posted earlier about the first chapter of Doyle's book 'The History of Spiritualism vol 1' where he 'talks' about Swedenborg - you'll find details in posting # 153 along with a link where the downloadable book can be found.

I've also added a couple of other links there for everyone's convenience. Enjoy!

quite - It's the opinion of unattributed and unquantified individuals. That hardly equates to Swedenborg being generally known as etc......

Thank you for mentioning that last point.

The remainder, however, deals with other faiths'/religions' take on reincarnation which is not part of the 'History of Spiritualism.'

blessings :hug3: