Ancient Spiritualism cf. Modern Spiritualism then......

You could say that. The story of the Witch of Endor and the Spirit of Samuel would seem to be an example of ancient Spiritualism ... though there is understandably some controversy regarding the story in Judaic/Christian circles.

I did say that..... :smile: :wink:

Stuff from that far back is decidedly ancient for me compared with stuff from a couple of centuries ago as with the movement of Modern Spiritualism that emerged post Fox Sisters, Hydesville etc.

As for what might have gone on "....in Judaic/Christian circles" I'll leave that to those who find those issues interesting or important. :wink:

QUOTE 43 EXCERPT:


The main reason that I brought up the story about the Witch of Endor (possibly Ancient Spiritualism if actually true) is that communication with Spirits was considered a demonistic practice in those times... so it surprised me that a story like that was able to remain in the Bible ... unless it was meant to "demonize" King Saul. In any case, it was somewhat surprising to read a story like that in the Bible. It's really hard to determine what actually happened in that particular case. Like yourself, I too prefer the more modern information ... better documented ... on Spiritualism.:thumbsup:

The Bible can often be a puzzling work.

I'm always surprised - even at my age and with my experience - that so many take its words as literal and quote (again literally) chapter-and-verse as if by doing that it makes every word in there authoritative and not open to challenge.

But I digress.... this is the 'Spiritualism' forum under the umbrella category 'Religions and Faiths'. I should stick to what I know and not witter on about what I don't. :wink:

Possibly, if one studies the various religions, they might find they have much in common with other religions.

As for Samuel, he heard his name called numerous times and later realized it was God/Universe talking to him. In his case, he was able to bring forth an important message from Spirit that major changes were coming forward and they would not be pleasant to the one hearing it.

How many of us have heard a voice and not know where it was coming from?

QUOTE 46 EXCERPT:


As for Samuel, who REALLY knows what he actually "heard" and what was the source of all that he "heard". Although he is generally accepted as a prophet in all three Abrahamic religions, some of his actions could indeed be considered questionable at best (the genocide of the Amalekites, choosing Saul as the first king, etc.)

In any case, since this is a Spiritist thread, here's an interesting article about the Witch of Endor and the reported appearance of the Spirit of Samuel. If my understanding is correct, Samuel's "ghost" is the only mention of possible Spirit communication in the Bible.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/...tewart_121.cfm

It's an interesting read on this particular reported case of Spiritism from a Biblical perspective.

NOTE: After participating in a Bible study on Kings I and II .... the stories about Samuel in particular inspired my taking a break from those scriptures for a while. :biggrin:

I would say the Spirit that called out Samuel's name several times and then later gave Samuel an important message to be given to the head of the 'temple' was probably would of the more important Spirit given messages in Biblicl history. One person who out shined Samuel in important messages from Spirit was, of course, Jesus himself.

Until fairly recently I had never heard of Bible study groups and it had never crossed my mind that the Bible would need such study. The religion-and-philosophy that underpins my own persuasion is simple in concept, simple in operation, and needs no study groups to appreciate what it represents. Yet it embraces the same, key principal figures!

blessings :wink:

To be correct, this is NOT a Spiritist thread and it's not a Spiritist Forum but maybe you're mischief-making? :D

If that is true, why do Spiritualist have study groups

no idea - Didn't know we did - I certainly haven't encountered Spiritualist study groups. Maybe your experience as a Spiritualist trumps mine.....

I have however encountered development groups...... Maybe you're muddled about those although a Spiritualist shouldn't be muddled.

What is the difference between a Development Group and a Study Group?

For example, which group would you put a Course about Mental Mediumship (MM) in?

Please Note: MM occurs through the medium’s own consciousness, without the use of the five physical senses. The medium relays what they feel, sense, see, or hear to the recipient. The faculties used by mediums are Clairvoyance, Clairsentience and Clairaudience.

You really don't know? :confused:

QUOTE 48 EXCERPT:


Could you elaborate more on what you stated "was probably one of the more important Spirit given messages in Biblical history".

QUOTE 53 EXCERPT: These faculties correspond to some of the siddhis (powers) described in Pantanjali's Yoga Sutras ....faculties which practitioners are strongly advised to avoid as they are distractions that will manifest quite naturally.

I'm routinely reproached for writing about Spiritualism in forums not intended for discussions of that subject - even when I haven't.

With respect may I point out that this forum IS the right one for conversations about Spiritualism but the Bible and other related matters are not part of (Modern) Spiritualism or its history.

I'd argue they are not even part of Ancient Spiritualism either even though that's actually my own recently-coined term - in reality I don't believe there is such a religion.

That quote and the quotes before it are a paraphrase from the Arthur Findlay College and is part of a Course description on Mental Mediumship. Many Spiritualist hold this College in high regards.

What was Spiritualism 'before' Modern Day Spiritualism?
Undefinable?

But then, some do not want to discuss or hear anything about history so it becomes a moot subject. When Modern Day Spiritism 'emerged', why is it Christianity seems to have played a key factor?

As a side note, I use to give sermons on a regular basis at one Spiritualist Church. That Church expected the sermons to be based on the Bible and the members had a strong affinity to what the bible does say.

There are numerous messages recoded in the Bible that were from Spirit. I would include Samuel's message to be one of the more important messages. It is just my own personal selection. On a personal note, the message from 'Spirit' mentioned in the Bible is the one dealing with Cyrus the Great.

History is your specialty. You tell us.

It's not moot because some aren't interested in history.
Spiritism isn't Spiritualism.

They're not quotations if they're paraphrases.

I wrote "Please Note: MM occurs through the medium’s own consciousness, without the use of the five physical senses. The medium relays what they feel, sense, see, or hear to the recipient. The faculties used by mediums are Clairvoyance, Clairsentience and Clairaudience."

the original quote was:

"Mental mediumship, as taught at the Arthur Findlay College, occurs through the medium’s own consciousness, without the use of the five physical senses. The medium relays what they feel, sense, see, or hear to the recipient. The faculties used by mediums are Clairvoyance (clear-seeing), Clairsentience (clear-sensing or feeling) and Clairaudience (clear-hearing)."

The Arthur Findlay College's position on Mental Mediumship is the same as mine.

My mistake. I should have written Spiritualism and the question still stands "When Modern Day Spiritualism 'emerged', why is it Christianity seems to have played a key factor?"

Next will be a discussion of Swedenborg.

I was going to write about Jesus and his followers as it relates to Spiritualism but the subject seems too controversial. Same holds true with other religions such as Buddhism.

I can't find anything about Samuel's message from the Spirit regarding Cyrus the Great.

Samuel did not speak about Cyrus the Great. That messages about Cyrus the Great are basically found in Isaiah.

I am familiar with the quotes attributed to Isaiah that some say are references to Cyrus.


However, there are also Biblical scholars that question the timing of such "prophecies". They suggest that the "prophecies" may have been written after-the-fact.


https://www.christiancourier.com/art...lical-prophecy

EXCERPT:

Incredible declarations of this nature have led critics (who reject the possibility of predictive prophecy) to suggest that these portions of the book of Isaiah were added much later—after the fact, as it were.

There was one time in my life that I would go to a lot of seances; sometimes as many as 4 in one day! At the same time, I used to go to 3 Spiritualist Churches on Sunday and went to other meeting during the week. From all of this, I got to give talks at two of the Churches and would give out messages. I also learned a 'lot of the tricks' and 'on my own', found easier and simpler methods to develop.

I also spent time in other belief systems in which I gave talks. Sure you can find information refuting anything and everything in Judaism and Christianity but I don't think this is the Forum to do it. If you look at some of my posts in Judaism and Christianity, I try to explain in several places that if one examines, for example, the writing styles in Hebrew of the creation accounts, it seems odvious to me they were written by different persons or groups.

Pardon me for interrupting BigJohn ,but I would like to know what you mean by 'lot of the tricks'.

It seems to me that the conversation has anyway wandered off from the topic title.

One of the problems that has always been a part of Spiritualism is what you are 'seeing' real or is it being faked. If it is being faked, how is it done. That is what I was referring to in regards to a 'lot of the tricks'.

Wikipedia has an interesting description of Emanuel Swedenborg. It reads:

"Emanuel Swedenborg was a Swedish pluralistic-Christian theologian, scientist, philosopher and mystic. He became best known for his book on the afterlife, Heaven and Hell. Swedenborg had a prolific career as an inventor and scientist."

A Pluralistic-Christian Theologian is one that sees other religions as part of the 'greater pie' that in affect, believes all religions resonate as part of the whole.

As a Scientist, he identified as one with a 'special marker'. He was able to bring forth new inventions which seems came thru Angels and Spirit. If that is true, it might indicate a higher 'level Spirit' and Angels used him in a special way.

As a Mystic, he was able to go to Heaven and Hell which he wrote extensively about.

Emanuel Swedenborg claimed in his book "True Christian Religion" that he was a "Servant of the Lord Jesus Christ". At the age of 53, he had a major change in his life during the Easter holidays in the year 1744 which happened just over 278 years ago.

oh I see. I can assure you that the readings I've had(apart from 1),are legit. You can tell unless you are trying desperately to kid yourself
and to hear what you want to hear.
Anyway, let's get back to the threads subject.(Sorry).

Is such material really relevant to the thread title? :confused:

Emanuel Swedenborg believed that when a person died, the person would transition to the afterlife minus their physical body which is left behind. The deceased person doesn't linger around. He claimed what we perceive as Spirits are Angels and Evil Spirits.

As a 'Medium', Swedenborg didn't get his messages from 'Spirits' but actually went to Heaven and Hell and got to see first hand what those places where all about.

The more I study Swedenborg and other beliefs, the more it seems we are living in a 'reality' we might have created. There is also the possibility we have gotten virtually everything 'wrong' and in some cases, have given up the 'search'.

QUOTE 69 EXCERPT:


I have read the posts that you are citing now, and I agree with you that it seems obvious that the creation accounts were written by different persons or groups.

However, I'm trying to connect what you are writing now to your statement about Samuel's spirit communications being so noteworthy.:confused:

QUOTE 77 EXCERPT:



The Yoga Vashistha story (Lila and the king) which my teacher translated many years ago says exactly the same thing that Swedenborg said ... one is living in a "reality" that one creates for one's self. :D

As far as Swedenborg actually going to Heaven and Hell first hand, Charles Leadbeater (Theosophical Society) claims to have personally witnessed the many heavens and hells that the multitudes create. Which heaven and hell did Swedenborg visit? :biggrin:

BigJohn had indicated that the Spirits gave significant "prophecies" so this seems very relevant to the nature of Spirit communication.

How reliable is communication with the Spirits? That is the point.