Scientist Offers Proof of Afterlife
 

Dr. Eben Alexander is a neuroscientist who had a near dear experience after almost dying from meningitis.

He reports beautiful experiences in a Heaven after death.

Now, what is fascinating about his particular case is that at the time he was experiencing these images...his brain was so inundated with disease, that his brain / body, was INCAPABLE of producing those images.

It is medical proof that those images did not occur from any process of the physical body.
I don't know if he took a lie detector to affirm his statements to be accurate, but I assume he either did or would not be amiss to doing so.
It is one of the best proofs of the afterlife.

You can Google his name. He has a website, has appeared on various TV shows, has vidoes on You Tube, maybe a TED talk...reasonably well known.

In scientific method it would have to be repeatable to become a hypothesis.
Looking him up, he seems a bit of a populist and I can't accept his idea that he was brain dead. That means the brain is dead. The clinical definition of brain dead is that the brain has ceased to function.

Here's a brief summary which you can research for yourself:
"Brain death is a legal definition of death. It is the complete stopping of all brain function and cannot be reversed. It means that, because of extreme and serious trauma or injury to the brain, the body's blood supply to the brain is blocked, and the brain dies. Brain death is death."

The key point is that it isn't reversible.

My conclusion, given he's returned to normality with no apparent sign of brain damage is that he wasn't brain dead at all and his near death experience might have needed mechanical support but his brain was alive and well and we have no indication of its imaging capability.

His pedigree is questionable. He may have qualified as a neurosurgeon but his history is checkered. Announcing "proof of heaven" in a populist men's magazine was asking for trouble. Why not "Nature", Scientific American or any of the Neuroscience journals? It also seems he was done for malpractice several times.

I suspect he hasn't been published in neuroscience journals in the UK (the BNA). I have no immediate access to the indices so I can't look anything up - but I see he's been mentioned in a couple of American medical journals more in a debate than research capacity.

There's no mention of any metering of his functions during his NDE that would enlighten us about the degree to which his brain could image so we just have to accept what he says as anecdote of personal experience. That sort of thing doesn't stand up to peer review.

Proof is too strong a word.
.

That's called anecdotal because it's his experience. It's not exactly scientific proof. Science has a whole list of procedures that must be met before it declared proof, the most important is that it is reproducible and had quantitative concrete provable data.

His experience sounds exciting and amazing and I have no doubt he had an NDE, but the science community is stringently more skeptical.

Hi, Yup, 99% of us know about Dr. Eben..great NDE.
And he has learned how to express himself much better now. :wink:
Scientific is a hard word to use without getting some kickback.

I would agree with Miss hepburn and as someone who has had three NDE i dont need proof I know it exists


Namaste

to Miss Hepburn --- Re Dr. Alexander...I have never encountered communication by him that is anything but clear and professional.

to Native Spirit - thanks for your comment. I appreciate what you wrote. I also appreciate you sharing your experience with NDE.

I have had meditative experiences, visions, of the after life.

I did have one NDE, I guess you could call it that. I was doing extensive fasting. And I was "kicked out" of the body. I was in a kind of formless place. I could tell I was being healed. I could also tell that I was under subject of Justice. That I was not just being told to stop fasting so much, but more like being threatened not to do that.

Science and Faith - Not a Conflict
 

Science and Faith - Not a Conflict

This idea that faith and science are in conflict does not fit the demographics. Belief in God among top professional scientists is about the same as the general public.

The list of Noble Prize Winners in science who believe in God is extensive.

Many great scientists believed God and/or the mystical. They include Benjamin Franklin, Isaac Newton, Nikolai Tesla, and, today, many Nobel Prize Winners in science, and many more.

The book below concludes that about 50% of scientists are religious, and, additionally, many more, while not religious, believe in God.

from this book:
Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really Think
by Elaine Howard Ecklund

Quoting from the article: "In the course of her research, Ecklund surveyed nearly 1,700 scientists and interviewed 275 of them. She finds that most of what we believe about the faith lives of elite scientists is wrong. Nearly 50 percent of them are religious. Many others are what she calls “spiritual entrepreneurs,” seeking creative ways to work with the tensions between science and faith outside the constraints of traditional religion…..only a small minority are actively hostile to religion."
+++
there's A professional scientific study proving that prayer works:

"There is ample proof that prayer works. Many scientific studies have been conducted that validate this observation.

A 1993 Israeli survey following 10,000 civil servants for 26 years found that Orthodox Jews were less likely to die of cardiovascular problems than
"nonbelievers." And a 1995 study from Dartmouth College in Hanover, N.H., monitoring 250 people after open-heart surgery concluded that those who had religious connections and social support were 12 times less likely to die than those who had none."
+++
The Vatican science council, the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, has a long list of Noble Prize winning scientists who believe in God...

++++++++++

reply to Traveler...

first, to my own experience re science. I was pre-med, got into Cornell University. I was an assistant to Dr. Morrison, of Kean University, NJ, doing pollution research in the Arthur Kill. Found the highest levels of mercury ever recorded on the planet (70 ppm). That was 1978.

My Dad's IQ was tested at 160. He was in Mensa. When I was in 4th grade, I was reading Shakespeare, studying Latin and could play chess games in my head. He took me over to meet the Mensa people. I found them creepy and boring and decided to play basketball instead!

My ex was a cancer researcher. She did work in cellular senescence. She used to have me review her NIH grant proposals.

So, while not a working professional in a scientific field, I do have a professional level scientific background and understanding. So, not a novice.

Replying to what you wrote (quoted below). Writing in all caps to set the text out clearly.

"That's called anecdotal because it's his experience."

NO, AND THAT IS ENTIRELY IRREVELANT. WHY? BECAUSE IT IS NOT AT ISSUE. DR. ALEXANDER IS A MEDICAL DOCTOR, A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL, A PROFESSIONAL SCIENTIST. HE REVIEWED HIS MEDICAL CHART WHEN HE RECOVERED AND SAW DIRECTLY THAT THE MEDICAL EVIDENCE WAS SUCH THAT HIS BRAIN COULD NOT PRODUCE THOSE IMAGES.

IT IS NOT SOME THEOREM OR ASSERTION BASED IN INVESTIGATIVE INQUIRY. IT IS MEDICAL INFORMATION. HE WAS A NEURO SURGEON. AN EXPERT IN THE BRAIN. WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO ASSERT
IS THAT A MEDICAL DOCTOR CAN'T LOOK AT AN X-RAY AND KNOW THAT THERE IS A BREAK IN A BONE. A NEURO SURGEON CAN LOOK AT THE MEDICAL RECORDS OF A MENIGITIS CASE AND KNOW THAT THE
BRAIN CAN'T PRODUCE IMAGES. IT IS NOT SOME EXTREME SCIENTIFIC ASSERTION THAT NEEDS AN INVESTIGATION AND PROOF. IT IS PATENTLY OBVIOUS TO SOMEONE WITH THAT LEVEL OF EXPERTISE. AND, BY THE WAY, NOT A SINGLE PERSON HAS EVER COME FORWARD TO DISPUTE HIS READING OF THE FACTS.

That's called anecdotal because it's his experience.

It's not exactly scientific proof. Science has a whole list of procedures that must be met before it declared proof, the most important is that it is reproducible and had quantitative concrete provable data.

His experience sounds exciting and amazing and I have no doubt he had an NDE, but the science community is stringently more skeptical.

reply to Traveler...

first, to my own experience re science. I was pre-med, got into Cornell University. I was an assistant to Dr. Morrison, of Kean University, NJ, doing pollution research in the Arthur Kill. Found the highest levels of mercury ever recorded on the planet (70 ppm). That was 1978.

My Dad's IQ was tested at 160. He was in Mensa. When I was in 4th grade, I was reading Shakespeare, studying Latin and could play chess games in my head. He took me over to meet the Mensa people. I found them creepy and boring and decided to play basketball instead!

My ex was a cancer researcher. She did work in cellular senescence. She used to have me review her NIH grant proposals.

So, while not a working professional in a scientific field, I do have a professional level scientific background and understanding. So, not a novice.


Replying to what you wrote (quoted below). Writing in all caps to set the text out clearly.


"That's called anecdotal because it's his experience."

NO, AND THAT IS ENTIRELY IRREVELANT. WHY? BECAUSE IT IS NOT AT ISSUE. DR. ALEXANDER IS A MEDICAL DOCTOR, A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL, A PROFESSIONAL SCIENTIST. HE REVIEWED HIS MEDICAL CHART WHEN HE RECOVERED AND SAW DIRECTLY THAT THE MEDICAL EVIDENCE WAS SUCH THAT HIS BRAIN COULD NOT PRODUCE THOSE IMAGES.

IT IS NOT SOME THEOREM OR ASSERTION BASED IN INVESTIGATIVE INQUIRY. IT IS MEDICAL INFORMATION. HE WAS A NEURO SURGEON. AN EXPERT IN THE BRAIN. WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO ASSERT
IS THAT A MEDICAL DOCTOR CAN'T LOOK AT AN X-RAY AND KNOW THAT THERE IS A BREAK IN A BONE. A NEURO SURGEON CAN LOOK AT THE MEDICAL RECORDS OF A MENIGITIS CASE AND KNOW THAT THE
BRAIN CAN'T PRODUCE IMAGES. IT IS NOT SOME EXTREME SCIENTIFIC ASSERTION THAT NEEDS AN INVESTIGATION AND PROOF. IT IS PATENTLY OBVIOUS TO SOMEONE WITH THAT LEVEL OF EXPERTISE. AND, BY THE WAY, NOT A SINGLE PERSON HAS EVER COME FORWARD TO DISPUTE HIS READING OF THE FACTS.

That's called anecdotal because it's his experience.

It's not exactly scientific proof. Science has a whole list of procedures that must be met before it declared proof, the most important is that it is reproducible and had quantitative concrete provable data.

His experience sounds exciting and amazing and I have no doubt he had an NDE, but the science community is stringently more skeptical.

reply to Traveler...

first, to my own experience re science. I was pre-med, got into Cornell University. I was an assistant to Dr. Morrison, of Kean University, NJ, doing pollution research in the Arthur Kill. Found the highest levels of mercury ever recorded on the planet (70 ppm). That was 1978.

My Dad's IQ was tested at 160. He was in Mensa. When I was in 4th grade, I was reading Shakespeare, studying Latin and could play chess games in my head. He took me over to meet the Mensa people. I found them creepy and boring and decided to play basketball instead!

My ex was a cancer researcher. She did work in cellular senescence. She used to have me review her NIH grant proposals.

So, while not a working professional in a scientific field, I do have a professional level scientific background and understanding. So, not a novice.


Replying to what you wrote (quoted below). Writing in all caps to set the text out clearly.


"That's called anecdotal because it's his experience."

NO, AND THAT IS ENTIRELY IRREVELANT. WHY? BECAUSE IT IS NOT AT ISSUE. DR. ALEXANDER IS A MEDICAL DOCTOR, A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL, A PROFESSIONAL SCIENTIST. HE REVIEWED HIS MEDICAL CHART WHEN HE RECOVERED AND SAW DIRECTLY THAT THE MEDICAL EVIDENCE WAS SUCH THAT HIS BRAIN COULD NOT PRODUCE THOSE IMAGES.

IT IS NOT SOME THEOREM OR ASSERTION BASED IN INVESTIGATIVE INQUIRY. IT IS MEDICAL INFORMATION. HE WAS A NEURO SURGEON. AN EXPERT IN THE BRAIN. WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO ASSERT
IS THAT A MEDICAL DOCTOR CAN'T LOOK AT AN X-RAY AND KNOW THAT THERE IS A BREAK IN A BONE. A NEURO SURGEON CAN LOOK AT THE MEDICAL RECORDS OF A MENIGITIS CASE AND KNOW THAT THE
BRAIN CAN'T PRODUCE IMAGES. IT IS NOT SOME EXTREME SCIENTIFIC ASSERTION THAT NEEDS AN INVESTIGATION AND PROOF. IT IS PATENTLY OBVIOUS TO SOMEONE WITH THAT LEVEL OF EXPERTISE. AND, BY THE WAY, NOT A SINGLE PERSON HAS EVER COME FORWARD TO DISPUTE HIS READING OF THE FACTS.

That's called anecdotal because it's his experience.

It's not exactly scientific proof. Science has a whole list of procedures that must be met before it declared proof, the most important is that it is reproducible and had quantitative concrete provable data.

His experience sounds exciting and amazing and I have no doubt he had an NDE, but the science community is stringently more skeptical.

Reply to Lorelyen

I will reply within the text you wrote, in all CAPS, for clarity...

In scientific method it would have to be repeatable to become a hypothesis.

WELL, NO. WHAT YOU WRITE ONLY APPLIES IF IT IS NOT ALREADY ACCEPTED SCIENTIFIC TRUTH. AND BY THAT I AM NOT REFERING TO THE NDE, I AM SPECIFICALLY REFERRING TO DR. ALEXANDER INDICATING THAT HIS BRAIN COULD NOT PRODUCE THOSE IMAGES.

A GP WHO LOOKS AT AN X-RAY AND SEES A BREAK IN THE BONE DOES NOT HAVE TO ENGAGE SOME ELABORATE STUDY WITH CONTROLS TO PROVE IT IS A BREAK.

A NEUROSURGEON LIKE DR. ALEXANDER IS, ABSOLUTELY, AN EXPERT IN THE BRAIN AND DOES NOT HAVE TO ENGAGE SOME ELABORATE STUDY TO PROVE THAT A CERTAIN LEVEL OF INFLAMMATION IN THE BRAIN WILL HAVE EFFECT.

Looking him up, he seems a bit of a populist and I can't accept his idea that he was brain dead.

JUST BECAUSE TO YOU HE SEEMS A POPULIST DOESN'T MEAN HE IS. WHAT PROOF DO YOU HAVE THAT HE IS SOME LYING MANIPULATIVE, MONEY GRUBBING SHILL? YOU DON'T HAVE PROOF, NOT AT ALL.
THE GUY COULD BE A COMPLETE SAINT. WHAT DO YOU KNOW OF HIS PERSONAL LIFE, HIS REPUTATION FOR HELPING OTHERS, PROOF OF HIS MORALITY? YOU ARE JUST MAKING AN ASSERTION
WITHOUT PROOF BECAUSE IT TENDS TO SERVE THE NARRATIVE YOU WANT TO BE TRUE...THAT HE MUST BE LYING. BUT...WHAT IF...HE ISN'T???

That means the brain is dead. The clinical definition of brain dead is that the brain has ceased to function.

Here's a brief summary which you can research for yourself:
"Brain death is a legal definition of death. It is the complete stopping of all brain function and cannot be reversed. It means that, because of extreme and serious trauma or injury to the brain, the body's blood supply to the brain is blocked, and the brain dies. Brain death is death."

BRAIN "DEATH" FAR MORE SCIENTIFICALLY COMPLICATED THAN THE SIMPLE DEFINITION THAT YOU CITE ABOVE. THAT IS NOT SOME KIND OF IMPRIMATUR FOR MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS.

The key point is that it isn't reversible.

RESPECTFULLY, YOU ARE NOT OFFERING PROFESSIONAL MEDICAL EVIDENCE. THE BRAIN IS QUITE COMPLEX AND QUITE VARIED. IT DEFINITELY DOES HAVE ABILITY TO RECOVER IN VARIOUS WAYS. THAT HE WAS "BRAIN DEAD" DOES NOT INDICATE
THAT HE COULD NOT COME BACK TO FULL BRAIN HEALTH. YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY MEDICAL EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST THAT.

My conclusion, given he's returned to normality with no apparent sign of brain damage is that he wasn't brain dead at all and his near death experience might have needed mechanical support but his brain was alive and well and we have no indication of its imaging capability.

YES, THAT IS YOUR LINE OF ARGUMENTATION, BUT IT IS HARDLY ANYTHING CLOSE TO MEDICAL EVIDENCE. AND PLEASE NOTE, NO DOCTORS, AND NO ONE IN GENERAL, HAS EVER COME FORWARD DISPUTING DR. ALEXANDER'S MEDICAL CLAIMS. NO ONE.

His pedigree is questionable. He may have qualified as a neurosurgeon but his history is checkered.

YOU HAVE PROOF HIS HISTORY IS "CHECKERED?" YOU MIGHT WANT TO BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL MAKING A STATEMENT LIKE THAT. YOU CAN LITERALLY BE USED FOR LIBEL.

Announcing "proof of heaven" in a populist men's magazine was asking for trouble. Why not "Nature", Scientific American or any of the Neuroscience journals? It also seems he was done for malpractice several times.

I suspect he hasn't been published in neuroscience journals in the UK (the BNA).

YOU SUSPECT? WITH ZERO EVIDENCE, YOU SUSPECT? WHAT EXACTLY DOES THAT MEAN? IF I SUSPECT YOU ARE A CHILD MOLESTER, DOES IT MAKE THAT TRUE? ARE YOU AT ALL FAMILIAR
WITH THE MEDICAL DISCIPLINE AND COMMUNITY? ALMOST ALL OF THEM EITHER HAVE TO PUBLISH OR THEY GET FIRED. IF HE WAS A PRACTICING NEUROSURGEON IT ALMOST CERTAINLY MEANS HE PUBLISHED.

I have no immediate access to the indices so I can't look anything up - but I see he's been mentioned in a couple of American medical journals more in a debate than research capacity.

There's no mention of any metering of his functions during his NDE that would enlighten us about the degree to which his brain could image so we just have to accept what he says as anecdote of personal experience. That sort of thing doesn't stand up to peer review.

AGAIN ABSOLUTELY NO ONE HAS COME FORWARD TO DISPUTE HIS ASSERTIONS. AND WHY? BECAUSE HE COULD TAKE THEM TO COURT AND SUE THEM.

Proof is too strong a word.

YOU ARE ASSERTING THAT PROOF IS TOO STRONG OF A WORD. OK. I CAN ASSERT THAT YOU WERE ABDUCTED BY ALIENS AND FORCED TO WATCH 1000 HOURS OF YODELING. JUST BECAUSE I ASSERT
THAT, DOESN'T MAKE IT TRUE. WHEN YOU SAY PROOF IS TOO STRONG OF A WORD, YOU ARE BASICALLY SAYING THAT A NEUROSURGEON CANNOT MAKE A PROFESSIONAL JUDGMENT ABOUT THE STATE OF
BRAIN ACTIVITY. IT'S PATENTLY, ON ITS FACE, NOT TRUE. HE CAN. THEY DO. THEY DO IT ALL THE TIME.

if anyone else would like to confront what I post online, please first contact my mother. She runs the professional "My Son is An Idiot" website. You really should clear all things by her first. She is a top tier debunker of anyone's possible attempts at self-worth and can easily destroy anyone's ability to have any joy, ever.

She is also a vampire, one of the undead, stalks the living, is in collusion with a family of succubi, has been rumored to murder and eat small children, and Judge Judy herself is known to fear her. She is mystery, mayhem, disorder and disruption. The NSA has frequently used her in covert operations, to destroy the confidence of US enemies, with her endless criticism about folk's choices for coats for bad weather. "That!?! You are wearing that!?! You will catch the death of a cold. And what will the neighbors think, that you have a mother who will let her son die the death of a cold? No, wear something decent!"

A plethora of known terrorists have committed suicide rather than listen to her endless rantings. She is power and terror, though she sits in assisted living watching her daily soap operas.

Hi ShivaG ---nothing to do with your posts themselves but, we don't do Caps around here...it's like shouting. Sorry.

OMG, I can't stop laughing:biggrin: ...you could be a stand-up comedian.
Thank you for this material.

Have to agree with Miss hepburn


Namaste

In NDEs, the idea of being flat-line brain dead has to be verified. If it isn't, the "experience" can be coming in from another direction. Eben was in a coma and was not "brain dead."

My argument with things he said starts here: (Bold font is my addition.)

"Evil was present in all the other universes as well, but only in the tiniest
trace amounts. Evil was necessary because without it free will was
impossible, and without free will there could be no growth—no
forward movement, no chance for us to become what God longed for
us to be. Horrible and all-powerful as evil sometimes seemed to be in a
world like ours, in the larger picture love was overwhelmingly dominant,
and it would ultimately be triumphant."

So ... it seems this "other side" believes that the horrible things that we are surrounded with are - necessary? Isis beheadings are - necessary? The killing of how many innocent people with nuclear bombs on Japan was - necessary?

Sounds more like this is coming in from another direction.

NDEs are only half the picture ... there are also what I call ADEs (actual death experiences - complete with burial). You see and hear about these non-empathic people all the time ... what do you think the paranormal is all about?

All that's needed is a person unconscious (like in this case, in a coma) ... not brain dead, and what I call paranormal data transfer can occur. It's really very simple ... I've had it happen to me while sleeping.

In this case, Eben thinks God (or what he called Om) was telling him this. Sounds like someone is trying to justify their position. Eben tells other people ... no one questions anything ... and - OK - EVIL is NECESSARY!