Psychedelics

[e-ma]

Hello to all,

I wasn't sure where to post this thread. Basically, my introduction to spirituality came after using psychedelics. I think that they helped to give me the first insight into what it was all about, opened up my third eye, and allowed me to experience the Astral Plain.

I recently spoke to a well respected medium about this, and she gave me some interesting points to ponder. She said that what psychedelic drugs do is seperate the soul from the body, and so your consciousness rises up and above your head, which you then have to re-integrate. So although you might be having an amazing, profound experience, it really isn't natural, or timely, and you'll only be opening yourself up to the lower realms.

This really seems to make sense.

I just wondered, with trepidation, what kind of thoughts or opinions others on here might have on the subject?

Many thanks :smile:

[dreamer]

Psychadelics and ecstacy saved me from a life of misery, gave me a better perspective on life and set me on the right path. I'm not saying they are the answer but I do think that if everyone in the world took a pill and some acid at the same time it would create a change for the better and solve a lot of problems.

Now I know that this will be shouted down as being irresponsible by some, but sometimes in a world without too much love a chemical can provide a taste of something never dreamt of before - something that can be aspired to and worked towards.

As far as i'm concerned drugs are created to give people looking for answers some pointers to where they want to go. Its people not looking for answers that can get in trouble.

[kundalini]

Psychadelics and ecstacy saved me from a life of misery, gave me a better perspective on life and set me on the right path. I'm not saying they are the answer but I do think that if everyone in the world took a pill and some acid at the same time it would create a change for the better and solve a lot of problems.

Now I know that this will be shouted down as being irresponsible by some, but sometimes in a world without too much love a chemical can provide a taste of something never dreamt of before - something that can be aspired to and worked towards.

As far as i'm concerned drugs are created to give people looking for answers some pointers to where they want to go. Its people not looking for answers that can get in trouble.

Sorry dreamer but I am going have to declare that is an irresponsible message. Drugs are not the answer. It is true that for some who go down the path of drug-taking, it can set up back onto the right path but this is only because using drugs gives the mind something otherworldly to ponder, if you understand what I mean.

Drugs actually force the kundalini energy up from the root-chakra. Since this isn't a guided contolled exercise, the resulting energy can lead to severe mental health problems such as depression and sadly, madness.

Drugs are not the answer. The negative energy experienced by drugs, i believe has a magnetic effect on the environment around us so that we begin to attract darker energies and entities to us. Quite simply, the chemicals in ecstasy are not monitored, some of the dealers to make more cash, can inject small amounts of heroin into the pill to create an addictive effect.

Btw, just in case you think I don't know what I am talking about, I have done most drugs.

[e-ma]

Thanks for the replies.

The negative energy experienced by drugs, i believe has a magnetic effect on the environment around us so that we begin to attract darker energies and entities to us.

Kundalini, I have a feeling that this was what the medium was alluding to when she mentioned that the psychedelics opened me up to the lower realms. I believe that the taking of psychedelics had something to do with my Kundalini awakening too - as you said, drawing up the energy from the root. I'm glad that it happened - I am completely humbled by the experiences I've had - and would in no way trade my newfound knowledge for the world.. but I think that now, with hindsight I realise how seriously I was playing with fire.

As you said, the forcing upwards of the energy can cause depression and madness - I spent the most part of a year thinking that I was going insane and behaving in a very erratic / schizophrenic way, though I'm now slowly getting better, with the help of medication and Reiki and healing sessions.

Can I ask, how do you know that the drugs draw the negative, darker energies towards you? Is this something that you have experienced first hand? I have experienced some horribly dark states which I never want to experience again! And have been feeling more and more that the drugs were to blame.

Thanks again for the reply - Dreamer, I know what you're saying about drugs allowing you to experience an altered state, or giving you a taste of bliss. As I said, psychedelics opened the doors of perception for me, though I would never suggest them to the serious spiritual aspirant because of the serious flaws and problems (above).

[kundalini]

Thanks for the replies.



Kundalini, I have a feeling that this was what the medium was alluding to when she mentioned that the psychedelics opened me up to the lower realms. I believe that the taking of psychedelics had something to do with my Kundalini awakening too - as you said, drawing up the energy from the root. I'm glad that it happened - I am completely humbled by the experiences I've had - and would in no way trade my newfound knowledge for the world.. but I think that now, with hindsight I realise how seriously I was playing with fire.

As you said, the forcing upwards of the energy can cause depression and madness - I spent the most part of a year thinking that I was going insane and behaving in a very erratic / schizophrenic way, though I'm now slowly getting better, with the help of medication and Reiki and healing sessions.

Can I ask, how do you know that the drugs draw the negative, darker energies towards you? Is this something that you have experienced first hand? I have experienced some horribly dark states which I never want to experience again! And have been feeling more and more that the drugs were to blame.

Thanks again for the reply - Dreamer, I know what you're saying about drugs allowing you to experience an altered state, or giving you a taste of bliss. As I said, psychedelics opened the doors of perception for me, though I would never suggest them to the serious spiritual aspirant because of the serious flaws and problems (above).

Thanks for your reply lonelytraveller. In response to your questions, yes I have experienced those states firsthand through the use of drugs. At the time, I thought I was hallucinating. I have now come to believe that I was attracting dark energies.

Daisy, a resident medium at these forums told me I have a little spirit boy that follows me around. When I was hallucinating I used to see - a little spirit boy!

I also use to see dark entities which would try to scare me too. Now, I was already 'into' the psychic and spiritual ways of thinking before I took drugs. When I took these drugs over a prolonged period of time, I was also attempting to open my third eye using an amethyst crystal when NOT under the influence of drugs but nevertheless, around the same period of time.

I do not know if I had a Kundalini Awakening or if I forced the energies upto quickly but I knew that I was messing around with things I should not have been messing around with.

It took a long time for me to stabilise my thinking and I think I said this in another thread, it is a long way back for those who choose to go down that path. The thing is that because I was already open to 'other worlds' and 'other ways of thinking' when I began drug-taking, it would affect me differently and possibly, more powerfully. I too have experienced those incredibly dark states that are practically indescribable. I don't just think you open up yourself to dark entites and energies when you use drugs, I KNOW a person who uses drugs does and I am not trying to sound like a KNOW-IT-ALL but no-one can tell me any different with regards to this.

Btw, I have also come to believe that hallucinations are in fact either spirits or darker entities depending on your frame of mind at that time. Whilst humans are capable of hallucinating, I believe that, in general, hallucinations whilst under the influence of drugs and especially if you're feeling negative, are nothing but dark energies and entities.

Think about this though - Why is it when we hallucinate, we cannot turn them off, you know, just stop hallucinating? It's because the hallucinations are real but are present in a different realm to this one but at the same time, here too. It may sound far-out but I am completely convinced that this is the truth.

[e-ma]

Wow. Thanks for the reply. It's not a matter of sounding like a know-it-all.. It's just first hand experience which leads to knowingness. I have often thought that anyone can read and learn and then quote a teaching. But all that I am absolutely certain of is my own personal experience. That is all I know to be the absolute truth.

It took me ages to finally reach the conclusion that the drugs weren't a good thing. I thought for a long time that they were truly the answer, the best gift that mankind had ever formulated. I became angry when people suggested that they were a bad route into spirituality. But, little by little, I learned stuff and experienced stuff which counteracted all of the amazing good I thought they were doing.

Firstly, the person that I considered to be my spiritual teacher could at times be completely terrifying. I put his evil side down to the fact that he had a terrible childhood, and not down to the immense amounts of psychedelics he was taking. Sometimes, he would look at me with pure hatred, from a depth I had never seen before. It would render me speechless and take months to finally kick and scream out of my system again.

Secondly, the teachers in the books who relied on acid to get themselves into the spiritual realms seem to be messed up. I've noticed in particular that they have wonky vision, fragmented personalities, and seem to seperate into two definite modes of consciousness, but never harmonising the two. It seems a very harsh and unnatural state of being - there's something quite odd about it.

Next are my own traumatic experiences. I began to think that perhaps I was being possessed by an evil spirit. I would stare maliciously dead into peoples' eyes and hold the stare. There were no thoughts in my head, but all I could feel was a dark, dark energy. This is all completely out of character. I'm a nice, easy-going girl who's never wanted for an argument in her life. It all reminded me of the Exorcist or something, where this normal girl suddenly switches into Satan. I am still trying to get myself out of this state - it still happens every now and then, and I have to hide the expression on my face because I know that in the middle of a conversation, I am switching into evil. I feel sorry, and concerned for my Reiki therapist. Yesterday after my Reiki session she had to sit down, exhausted and I was terrified that she had taken on board some of my badness. She said that she had taken out some bad stuff. I felt really guilty coming home.

Yeah - it really is such a long road back from that place. When I look back at how long and hard I have fought, for almost a year to come back from non-functionality to relative normality it is just crazy. Like a journey of a thousand steps, or climbing a mountain. I'm really glad that I chose to come back though, because staying there would have been disastrous.

That's interesting about the hallucinations. I know how it is to have your vision keep changing all of the time. I get visual distortion as in HPPD, which I thought were after effects of the acid, but apart from that I just get blackout type experiences where I am engulfed in static and white light. The medium told me that if I go further in to this, that's where you can see spirits and whatnot. I am completely interested in that, but I feel as though I should be concentrating on getting back to normal first!

One thing is that I find it so hard to relate to people now. So much so, that I am pretty much silent most of the time. When I do say something, it comes out so harsh and evil - almost as if my sentences go through a filter and all of the nice feeling is taken out and all that comes out of my mouth is this hard, unfeeling statement. I am a stranger to myself sometimes. It just makes me want to lock myself in a room and never come out again. It really is such a nightmare.

Thanks again :glasses2:

[kundalini]

That's a really interesting and deep reply. Also, thanks for understanding that I wasn't trying to push my thoughts on you but just explaining my views from the standpoint of my experiences.

To be honest, you seem to me to be very 'together' if that is the right word. This is another part of the problem of going down the 'drugs' path. It absolutely twists a person's self-image if they go down that road far enough.

This is because whilst drugs heighten the senses, because it is not controlled, it heightens them too much and begins to affect a person's perceptions in a negative way. That includes perceptions of themselves. It makes sense to me though that a person can put all this to rights through controlled exercies relating to these aspects of the mind.

I myself have never had a spiritual teacher, at least not in the physical realm anyway! Regardless, these 'teachers' you speak of who reach states through the use of drugs are deluding themselves if they think it is doing them any good in the long-term.

For a start, those who bear true spiritual gifts can perform miracles at any given moment in time, not whilst under the influence of narcotics.

Drugs not only turn people against other people but they also turn people against themselves and this is when a lack of self-love develops. Once that happens, well...from the way you said how you felt sometimes, this seems to be talking about exactly that.

Self-love however can be brought back into being through a variety of techniquees. One is through working with the colour 'pink'. It's wavelength helps to heal those aspects of yourself which you may hate for it is the colour of 'love'. Maybe you should look into 'colour therapy', if you have the time.

I've got to say this is a most interesting subject and it is really one that gets me thinking, so thanks for starting this thread. Thanks for reading, Kundalini.

[e-ma]

Hey, yeah, that is so true about a person's self-image being distorted! That made me shudder when I thought about it, the way that my feelings of who I am have changed, the death that I feel I've died since all of this began.

It's interesting, but today I was doing some more research into psychedelics (I could go on about it all day) and came across a forum for HPPD sufferers, that's Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder, and spent some time reading the posts there. Oh wow! How interesting was it to discover what other people have been going through. The symptoms of it so closely resemble those of a Kundalini awakening that there were several posts there by people who said 'I always thought that I'd had a Kundalini awakening, but now this?..' The confusion and despair in sufferers and the lack of recognition & understanding in the medical field was only too apparent - really fascinating stuff.

You're right about the teachers doing themselves harm.. I guess when I referred to that person as being my spiritual teacher, that's what I thought he was at the time, and he definitely 'woke me up'.. but as for being a good teacher, I think it turned out that he was nothing more than a kid on a power trip. Still, you live, you learn..

Thanks for the advice on the pink, I am interested in Colour Therapy and was surrounded by purple in my last healing session for work on the crown which was amazing, really healing.

I know, this is such a mad topic with such depth, and rarely is it possible to talk to someone similar. It's a very lonely path in a way. :glasses10:

[Enlightener]

I've been down the drug path and over the brink of insanity. It was the most amazing experience of my life. A mental journey of epic proportions all inside my own little world. I raised the kundalini energy up my spine through the use of marijuana and eventually opened my third eye. It was a real amazing experience. I also had drug induced psychosis at the same time I opened my third eye. Most people view or say that mental illness is a really negative thing but I had a ball of a time being mentally ill. What's to say you can't have fun and be totally out of it at the same time. :)

Enlightener

[e-ma]

God I wish I had your sense of 'confidence in madness'. It does have its benefits. I mean, all of your social anxieties are quashed when you're the lunatic running aroung naked with antlers on your head. And you don't have to bother going to the cinema when you're seeing in 4D and hearing voices.

[dreamer]

I wonder if it's fear rather than madness that is the problem?

www.thesecret.tv - have you seen the secret yet? it's worth knowing the secret.

[BLAIR2BE]

I Have To Agree With Many Of You Here. For Me, Some Of The Drugs I Have Done, Opened Doors In My Mind That I Never Knew Were There. But, I Became Vulnerable To Dark Energies. The Outcome Of Drug Use Has Caused Some Confusion In My Current Path - Has Caused More Turbulance Than I Wouldve Experienced Otherwise. Someone Commented On Using Ecstacy And Acid At The Same Time: For This I Must Say (i Have Done This Personally) The Affect Is More Like Magic Than Enlightenment. Lsd (and Her Natural Counterparts) have Caused Me To "evaporate" From My Body- but Any Drugs Today Are Potentially Very Dangerous (as Anyone Experienced Can Tell You). If One must Use Psychedelics, An Experinced And Wise Guide Should Be Used (start To Finish)- And That Guide Will Likely Urge The User To Only Use A Very Few Times To Achieve A defined Goal. This Are Only My Humble Opinions, But I Do Have Thorough Experience.

[dreamer]

Its funny that people who worry about the effects of drugs are the ones who struggle with the effects of drugs.

[e-ma]

www.thesecret.tv - have you seen the secret yet? it's worth knowing the secret.

I haven't seen the film yet. Can I be so bold as to ask what the secret is?

[kundalini]

Its funny that people who worry about the effects of drugs are the ones who struggle with the effects of drugs.

The ones who don't worry about the effects of drugs are the ones who don't know the drugs are having effects on them.

[dreamer]

Hi Lonely traveller,

The secret is the law of attraction, like attracts like. The way you are thinking and feeling right now is emitting an energy and that energy is drawing experiences of the same frequency into your everyday experience. Get your internal energy in harmony with the experiences you would like and life is enjoyable. The universe you experience outside is a mirror for the universe you experience inside. Imagine things you want to happen and be grateful for the good things in your life and focus your mind on this and things change quickly.

I'd really recommend the film, you cannot help to get something very positive from it.

[e-ma]

That sounds cool, dreamer. I guess that with any new understanding, it is one thing to just hear about it and say 'oh yeah, that's good advice', and then quite another to actually incorporate it into your psyche and act on it, 24/7. Not wanting to take the thread too off-topic, but have you managed to 'realize' it, and incorporate it into your life? Has it worked?

Kundalini - I agree with what you say. Incidentally, I have been reading up a lot about psychedelics and kundalini over the last few days. There's a lot of information around that suggests that the after-effects of psychedelics very closely mimic that of a kundalini awakening. I'm not sure if I mentioned it before, but I thought I had had a kundalini awakening all that time, when actually it was just a drug-induced disorder. Absolutely amazing, no?!

[dreamer]

It definately works, but it takes discipline to remain focused on what you really want. Doubts are hard to overcome but persistence pays off and things become easier the more you focus. The best thing is it means you have total control over your life, total responsibility too. If someone offends you - you have to take responsibility for bringing that into your life - that person is a manifestation of what you are saying to yourself internally, cool huh? Its the three gunas talked about in hindu literature.

[e-ma]

That really is cool, thanks. :smile:

One thing that I tend to do now is weigh Eastern Philosophies against Western ideas. I guess it just gives me a bit more of a balance. I only do this because at one time, I was very heavily into the Eastern ideas and it threw me a bit off balance. I was living completely 'in the now', 'mining the moment' as AZCowGirl would say.. and in the end it alienated me from my friends and family.. because nobody really understood what I was doing or why. When others were having a conversation say about a holiday that was coming up, or about what they had planned for the week ahead.. I couldn't respond with the same verve, because all that mattered was 'now'.. it became difficult to flow with a normal conversation.

What I would (personally) consider when thinking about this manifestation idea is that in Western cultures, the total-acceptance of responsibility is also called neurosis, i.e - the neurotic takes on board too much responsibility. So, before taking on board this idea, I would bear this in mind and consider how it might affect my life and thinking if I switch to this mindset.

That said, absolutely nothing wrong with creating a positive inner-state and drawing positivity towards you - with that I completely agree.

[dreamer]

Hey Lonely traveller,

I wonder if living in the moment is more to do with being fully present and enjoying life as it is. When you realise that everything is brought into your experience by your own mind it becomes important to fully engage with and enjoy those fruits if your thinking (i.e. friends). I wonder if you wre thinking "I need to live in this moment" whilst at a deeper level your SELF was calling out for some light relief with your friends. Your SELF just wants to feel good, do what makes you feel good and your SELF will propagate this feeling by bringing along good things into your life - no effort involved because when you are enjoying something it is effortless (wu wei wu).

As for neurosis, people are only neurotic when they try to control things they believe they don't have control over....BUT by controling your thoughts and feelings you have control over your future script. Its ridiculuos to try and control the outside world, the outside world is the mirror of your soul and when was the last time you got angry at your reflection for not smiling... you need to smile yourself for your reflection to smile back at you.

[Enlightener]

Can anyone here, if you have a psychedelic experience, explain what happened to you while you were taking the drug. I am interested to know the effects such as hallucinations, feelings, divine or spiritual thoughts or any profound or mind expanding ideas you had whilst on the drug.

Thankyou,
Enlightener

[devolution]

I'm interested to know of people's encounters/views on herbal/natural substances, such as Salvia Divinorum, Morning Glory etc.

The Native Americans and shamans of various other cultures & societies have been recorded as frequently using natural herbs or substances in their spiritual quests...

[developing1]

I'm interested to know of people's encounters/views on herbal/natural substances, such as Salvia Divinorum, Morning Glory etc.

The Native Americans and shamans of various other cultures & societies have been recorded as frequently using natural herbs or substances in their spiritual quests...

I for one have used many drugs whilst in my younger days especially ecstacy and can clearly say that those were the best days and nights of my life so far! I also believe that I had many spiritual experiences whilst on these drugs especially when I'd lay on my bed put some Euphoric dance music on and as stupid as it may sound- I used to float around my bedroom!

not tried any halluciagenics yet but would be willing to try some salvia as i believe it opens us up to the astral

best wishes

developing1:smile:

[kundalini]

I for one have used many drugs whilst in my younger days especially ecstacy and can clearly say that those were the best days and nights of my life so far! I also believe that I had many spiritual experiences whilst on these drugs especially when I'd lay on my bed put some Euphoric dance music on and as stupid as it may sound- I used to float around my bedroom!

not tried any halluciagenics yet but would be willing to try some salvia as i believe it opens us up to the astral

best wishes

developing1:smile:

Seriously developing1, taking drugs and then attempting to induce spiritual experiences for the intention of spiritual advancement is dangerous. Have you read the earlier posts in this thread? May I make a suggestion that you do so?

Uncontrolled usage of narcotics can push the latent kundalini energy at the base of the spine up through the chakra system. Now, because this is uncontrolled and not done instead through ritual meditation practices, this 'awakening' can lead to severe depression and even madness.

Secondly and I say this because I have seen a few of your other posts here at the forums, it can cause erratic experiences of your gifts, such as when you think that you undergoing astral projection. Your energy does not seem grounded to me and I know this to be true simply because I experienced similar states after uncontrolled drug use. Should you read some of the previous posts in this thread, I think you will find them very interesting and may have a different perspective of the use of drugs, natural or man-made.

[developing1]

Seriously developing1, taking drugs and then attempting to induce spiritual experiences for the intention of spiritual advancement is dangerous. Have you read the earlier posts in this thread? May I make a suggestion that you do so?

Uncontrolled usage of narcotics can push the latent kundalini energy at the base of the spine up through the chakra system. Now, because this is uncontrolled and not done instead through ritual meditation practices, this 'awakening' can lead to severe depression and even madness.

Secondly and I say this because I have seen a few of your other posts here at the forums, it can cause erratic experiences of your gifts, such as when you think that you undergoing astral projection. Your energy does not seem grounded to me and I know this to be true simply because I experienced similar states after uncontrolled drug use. Should you read some of the previous posts in this thread, I think you will find them very interesting and may have a different perspective of the use of drugs, natural or man-made.

Hi Kundalini

perhaps you've misunderstood me my friend!

I was only telling of my experiences whilst in my younger days and don't feel the need to take drugs anymore as I have moved on with that part of my life. All I said was that I very much enjoyed that time of my life but wouldn't recommend it for everyone although we all have free will and must make our own decisions.

Best Wishes

developing1:wink:

[kundalini]

Hi Kundalini

perhaps you've misunderstood me my friend!

I was only telling of my experiences whilst in my younger days and don't feel the need to take drugs anymore as I have moved on with that part of my life. All I said was that I very much enjoyed that time of my life but wouldn't recommend it for everyone although we all have free will and must make our own decisions.

Best Wishes

developing1:wink:

Hi developing1,

I possibly did misunderstand some of what you said. It is true that we all have free will and must make our own decisions. However, drugs open up the mind and because they are an uncontrolled substance, a drug-user may attract darker energies to them, resulting in mental illness. You obviously did enjoy your time taking drugs but I know that they may have a detrimental effect on some people.

The thing is, there is always the possibility that somebody who is impressionable may see this thread and who may be at that stage of their life where they have easy access to drugs ( for example, at high school etc.) and whose decision on whether or not to take drugs may be influenced by what people have to say here at the spiritual forums. It is unlikely I know and there will be many other influences but I would rather that my individual influence is one that states drugs are not a necessary step to endure on the path to spiritual enlightenment.

Thanks for reading, Kundalini.

[developing1]

Hi developing1,

I possibly did misunderstand some of what you said. It is true that we all have free will and must make our own decisions. However, drugs open up the mind and because they are an uncontrolled substance, a drug-user may attract darker energies to them, resulting in mental illness. You obviously did enjoy your time taking drugs but I know that they may have a detrimental effect on some people.

The thing is, there is always the possibility that somebody who is impressionable may see this thread and who may be at that stage of their life where they have easy access to drugs ( for example, at high school etc.) and whose decision on whether or not to take drugs may be influenced by what people have to say here at the spiritual forums. It is unlikely I know and there will be many other influences but I would rather that my individual influence is one that states drugs are not a necessary step to endure on the path to spiritual enlightenment.

Thanks for reading, Kundalini.

Hi kundalini,

It is indeed true what you say but I believe that our Doorkeepers and guides would never let a 'darker entity' near us as I feel if we ask for protection then it is always given, I for one never experienced any influences from lower/darker enegies but I'm sure it happens with people leaving themselves open to such things, also for anyone reading this thread thinking of taking psychadelics then that is their own choice as free will must always come into play- who are we to tell people what's right or wrong? they must follow their own path and make their own choices

I was just telling of my own personal experience

Best Wishes

developing1:wink:

[kundalini]

Hi kundalini,

It is indeed true what you say but I believe that our Doorkeepers and guides would never let a 'darker entity' near us as I feel if we ask for protection then it is always given, I for one never experienced any influences from lower/darker enegies but I'm sure it happens with people leaving themselves open to such things, also for anyone reading this thread thinking of taking psychadelics then that is their own choice as free will must always come into play- who are we to tell people what's right or wrong? they must follow their own path and make their own choices

I was just telling of my own personal experience

Best Wishes

developing1:wink:

Hi developing1,

Again, I agree with you that people must make their own choices. Anyway, as we are on the subject of personal experiences, if you read the earlier posts in this thread, you will see some of these personal experiences of not just myself but other members who have told of their time under the influence of drugs.

Secondly, I agree that our spirit guides/guardian angels would offer protection were we to ASK for it. Unfortunately, some people tend to get in a very confused state of mind whilst on drugs and so may not ask for any such protection. Therefore, it will not be given.

Also, developing1, can you honestly say that whilst on drugs or not, that you have never ever experienced contact or been influenced with/by darker energies? Remember, darker energies manifest in a variety of forms - entities, negative emotions - anger, hate, even debilitating depression.

Are you really saying that you have never experienced these emotions for they are nothing but a darker form of energy, or that you have never been influenced by any of these darker energies?

I do not want to sound condescending for I feel that I am starting to sound that way but surely you see how taking drugs multiplies every single little problem by a thousand times, simply because drug-taking can lead to a maelstrom of negative energy?

[dreamer]

Maybe drug taking highlights negativity within..... so does meditation and kundalini awakening would you tell people to stay away from them? Negative energies come from within yourself, if they are there they need to be dealt with.

Being too negative about drugs is counter productive, they need to be respected but to talk in this way about them is to propagate this notion that they cause irreperable damage which just leads to more worry which then attracts manifestations which propagate the worry. For me drugs have taught me to chill out, if i hadn't i would have probably gone mad from doing them but i did and dealt with lots of issues on the way - I'm not recommending them but I can't condemn them either, they are another life experience, thats it - if someones going to take them they will, if they're not they won't but whatever way people should know that to be frightened and negative about anything is counter productive and just causes more fear and negativity.

[developing1]

Maybe drug taking highlights negativity within..... so does meditation and kundalini awakening would you tell people to stay away from them? Negative energies come from within yourself, if they are there they need to be dealt with.

Being too negative about drugs is counter productive, they need to be respected but to talk in this way about them is to propagate this notion that they cause irreperable damage which just leads to more worry which then attracts manifestations which propagate the worry. For me drugs have taught me to chill out, if i hadn't i would have probably gone mad from doing them but i did and dealt with lots of issues on the way - I'm not recommending them but I can't condemn them either, they are another life experience, thats it - if someones going to take them they will, if they're not they won't but whatever way people should know that to be frightened and negative about anything is counter productive and just causes more fear and negativity.

couldn't have put it better myself!:wink:

best wishes

developing1:smile:

[kundalini]

Maybe drug taking highlights negativity within..... so does meditation and kundalini awakening would you tell people to stay away from them? Negative energies come from within yourself, if they are there they need to be dealt with.

Being too negative about drugs is counter productive, they need to be respected but to talk in this way about them is to propagate this notion that they cause irreperable damage which just leads to more worry which then attracts manifestations which propagate the worry. For me drugs have taught me to chill out, if i hadn't i would have probably gone mad from doing them but i did and dealt with lots of issues on the way - I'm not recommending them but I can't condemn them either, they are another life experience, thats it - if someones going to take them they will, if they're not they won't but whatever way people should know that to be frightened and negative about anything is counter productive and just causes more fear and negativity.

Hi dreamer,

Firstly, yes, drugs do highlight threads of negativity that are inside a person, drugs are undoubtedly mind-expanding. However, the effects that drugs have on the psyche cannot be controlled to any certain degree by the user, so therefore, the perception that the user will gain of themself and others will be twisted.

Secondly, no I would not tell people to stay away from meditation and kundalini awakening practices, simply because these are controlled exercises, which are also spiritual in nature and not material. Yes, negative energies do come from within and yes, I agree, that if one can, then one should deal with that negativity.

I haven't spoke about drugs in a way that propagates the notion that they cause irreparable damage. Should a person feel strong enough, then they can overcome any damage wrought by drug-taking. Yes, I also agree that fear and worry will cause more fear and worry for thoughts and emotions tend to have an exponential nature, in that they increase the more attention that is given to them.

What I am saying is that a person who is inclined to spiritualism will save themselves a lot of time by not taking drugs for drugs do nothing more than to ACCENTUATE negative behavioural patterns. Without taking the drugs, the person will have never developed those patterns. It is as simple as that.

Lastly, there is a great deal of fear and worry around drugs for a good reason. Many people DIE because of the production and distribution of drugs, not to mention the thousands of people who later go on to suffer from mental illness due to the effects of the drugs themselves and who go on to murder and rob people, sometimes people they know. There is a massive crime induustry surrounding drugs, so I would have thought that there is already a lot of negativity surrounding the use of them anyway.

I accept drugs for what they are. They are an addictive substance designed for one thing only - to allow the user an escape from reality yet their actual nature is that they actually trap the user in the reality they were already in.

Thanks for reading, Kundalini.

[Enlightener]

I would recommend specific drugs to anyone wanting to experience an altered state of mind or heightened awareness. Though I would not recommend it as a spiritual practice such as trying to raise the kundalini.

Enlightener

[kundalini]

I would recommend specific drugs to anyone wanting to experience an altered state of mind or heightened awareness. Though I would not recommend it as a spiritual practice such as trying to raise the kundalini.

Enlightener

Hi Enlightener,

Which specific drugs are you recommending?

Kundalini.

[dreamer]

Kundalini,

some of what you say I agree with, some of what you say I don't. In my experience drugs can be very beificial but they can also be very destructive depending upon the drug and the individual involved. To be too opinionated either way makes no sense, there are pros and cons as with anything in life and as with anything in life cons can be turned into pros and visa versa.

[kundalini]

Kundalini,

some of what you say I agree with, some of what you say I don't. In my experience drugs can be very beificial but they can also be very destructive depending upon the drug and the individual involved. To be too opinionated either way makes no sense, there are pros and cons as with anything in life and as with anything in life cons can be turned into pros and visa versa.

Yeah true. I am not being opinionated and if it seems that way then let me explain why. Okay, firstly, I cannot see what points you don't agree with me on. Secondly, if it saves someone the anguish of mental problems, big or small, then I will stand on this side of the fence. No disrespect dreamer, but you seem to be looking at the whole issue of drugs with a lower mind perspective, when in reality, it's a whole different ball game.

Again, I do not mean to be disrespectful and I have looked at things with that kind of perspective before too but I would think that someone such as you would be more interested in saving lives than promoting material pleasures.

Thanks for reading, Kundalini.

Once again, this is not a personal attack but I am ASKING you to view this whole topic from a higher perspective.

Kundalini.

[dreamer]

Yeah true. I am not being opinionated and if it seems that way then let me explain why. Okay, firstly, I cannot see what points you don't agree with me on. Secondly, if it saves someone the anguish of mental problems, big or small, then I will stand on this side of the fence. No disrespect dreamer, but you seem to be looking at the whole issue of drugs with a lower mind perspective, when in reality, it's a whole different ball game.

Again, I do not mean to be disrespectful and I have looked at things with that kind of perspective before too but I would think that someone such as you would be more interested in saving lives than promoting material pleasures.

Thanks for reading, Kundalini.

Once again, this is not a personal attack but I am ASKING you to view this whole topic from a higher perspective.

Kundalini.


Hey Kundalini,

your post appears both assumptive and opinionated whilst also being enlightened and wise. Be careful that your intention is to inform rather than convert, it makes all the difference. When was the last time you were converted without being informed?

[kundalini]

Hey Kundalini,

your post appears both assumptive and opinionated whilst also being enlightened and wise. Be careful that your intention is to inform rather than convert, it makes all the difference. When was the last time you were converted without being informed?

dreamer,

Very good dreamer but let's review this thread. I have gave my personal experiences and other people have give their experiences with regards to drug use. Then, next minute, some members start recommending drugs and this cannot be disputed. I'm saying I don't recommend them.

[dreamer]

Yeah true. I am not being opinionated and if it seems that way then let me explain why. Okay, firstly, I cannot see what points you don't agree with me on. Secondly, if it saves someone the anguish of mental problems, big or small, then I will stand on this side of the fence. No disrespect dreamer, but you seem to be looking at the whole issue of drugs with a lower mind perspective, when in reality, it's a whole different ball game.

Again, I do not mean to be disrespectful and I have looked at things with that kind of perspective before too but I would think that someone such as you would be more interested in saving lives than promoting material pleasures.

Once again, this is not a personal attack but I am ASKING you to view this whole topic from a higher perspective.

Kundalini.


It isn't that you are not recommending drugs it is that you apear to be assuming too much in your interpretations of what I have posted. Can you explain this higher perpective that you would like me to view this topic from? I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

[daisy]

many a good song was wrote with these!! sorry i'll go............lol

[kundalini]

It isn't that you are not recommending drugs it is that you apear to be assuming too much in your interpretations of what I have posted. Can you explain this higher perpective that you would like me to view this topic from? I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

No dreamer, I have made no assumptions. You and other members have clearly recommended the use of drugs. You cannot deny that you have not. Listen dreamer because I know you know what I am talking about. Drugs are a MATERIAL substance and many lives are ruined, destroyed, utterly obliterated due to the use of them. Now, would you not say that something so obviously dangerous and MATERIAL, whilst also bearing in mind that drugs are nothing more than a substance designed for a person to escape REALITY, can you honestly not say that they are a negative diversion? Please bear in mind the very REAL facts about all the crime and madness associated with them too.

Thanks for reading, Kundalini.

[BLAIR2BE]

SOME DRUGS CAN CAUSE MADNESS. I KNOW SOME FOLKS THAT HAD RESPECTABLE PROBOBILITY OF BECOMING AWARE AND ENLIGHTENED, BUT BECAME A BIT OBSESSED WITH THE EXPERIENCE THEY ACHIEVED THRU DRUG USE. AND NOW SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE A BIT MAD (SCITZAPHRENIC TYPE BEHAVIOURS, RECALLING PHYSICAL EVENTS OTHERS KNOW TO BE COMPLETLY INACURATE OR FALSE, ETC.).
ESPECIALLY IN THE TIMES WE'RE LIVING, MANY STREET DRUGS ARE NOT IN ANYWAY "PURE". DRUG MANUFACTURERS ARE FINDING NEW AND DANGEROUS WAYS TO MAKE THE PRODUCT MORE "POTENT".

NOTE* SOME DRUGS CAN OPEN "DOORS" FOR SOME PEOPLE (OR CATCH A GLIPSE OF WHAT ONE IS SEEKING). BUT IM THOROUGHLY CONVINCED THAT DRUG USE SHOULD NEVER BE A PATH. A DRUG SHOULD NEVER BE RELIED UPON TO "GET YOU THERE". ONES OWN PERSONAL ENERGY IS THE ONLY WAY TO ASCEND. IT IS FOOLISH TO BELIEVE A DRUG CAN GIVE ANYONE THE PERSONAL, SPIRITUAL POWER AND FREEDOM THAT WE SEEK. THERE IS THE POSSIBILTY THAT DRUGS CAN AID PEOPLE IN DIFFERENT ASPECTS. BUT AGAIN; IT IS SOME DRUGS AND SOME PEOPLE THAT MAY BENEFIT FROM LIMITED USE. I MYSELF, HAVE EXTENSIVE FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE, AS PART OF THE PSYCADELIC SUBCULTURE. THERE ARE ALWAYS PROS AND CONS. SOME BRAINS AND EMOTIONS SHOULDNT BE FILLED WITH *enter drug name here*. THIS TOPIC IS A BIT STICKY. THERE ARE ETHICS INVOLVED. MANY IFS. AND A BIT OF RESPONSIBILTY FOR THE EXPERIENCED TO EDUCATE THE NON EXPERIENCED IN A WAY WHERE ONE CAN MAKE THERE OWN EDUCATED AND INFORMED DESICIONS.

[e-ma]

^ Well put.

[dreamer]

No dreamer, I have made no assumptions. You and other members have clearly recommended the use of drugs. You cannot deny that you have not. Listen dreamer because I know you know what I am talking about. Drugs are a MATERIAL substance and many lives are ruined, destroyed, utterly obliterated due to the use of them. Now, would you not say that something so obviously dangerous and MATERIAL, whilst also bearing in mind that drugs are nothing more than a substance designed for a person to escape REALITY, can you honestly not say that they are a negative diversion? Please bear in mind the very REAL facts about all the crime and madness associated with them too.

Thanks for reading, Kundalini.


Kundalini, this is indeed a sticky topic and I can see your point of view and it has its merits, there is a danger however that you can become a bit carried away in pushing your point which leads to you delivering an opinion that is blatantly unbalanced and badly thought out.

Are you saying that you never had a positive experience with drugs? Are you saying that you are not more open minded having taken drugs than you would have been otherwise. Maybe drugs have there place for a reason, maybe without recreational drugs we would still be living in a repressed society where bigotry, small mindedness and intollerance would be the norm.

It always amuses me when ex drug takers who have had bad experiences start moralising, claiming that they have only a negative legacy from there experiences. Maybe there are massive positives that have come from your experiences that you are not yet willing to accept, or maybe when you overcome your fears these will become evident.

I am not suggesting that drugs are a path in any way but I cannot condemn the use of weed, hallucinogens or ecstacy although i would recommend to anyone wanting advice that they should be used with respect especially halucinogens- personally i never got anything of worth from coke and i wouldn't ever touch crack or heroin (or PCP ha,ha).

You assume that I am looking at this issue from a "lower" viewpoint, that is the assumption you make. My viewpoint is in fact that everyone is responsible for their own actions and that all I can do is inform the debate with my honest personal experiences. p.s. I stopped taking drugs a while ago although if they were offered i would not refuse. I now recreate altered states through meditation - if I had never touched drugs I would never have been where I am today though, hence i can't condemn them.

[kundalini]

Hi dreamer,

I have thought out my views on many occassions and find that they are balanced and well-thought out, especially as I have already acknowledged that drugs do good things for some people and I am also open-minded enough to acknowledge that maybe some people have to take drugs, you know had to go through that experience for some higher purpose.

However, I don't believe I put my views to you for your amusement, especially as I never said that I hadn't had one positive experience whilst on drugs. You have assumed that assumption all by yourself. However, what I find most strange dreamer is that you state 'Maybe there are massive positives that have come from your experiences that you are not yet willing to accept, or maybe when you overcome your fears these will become evident.'

What fears? I never said I was scared whilst on drugs or scared of drugs. I ACCEPT and UNDERSTAND drugs. Therefore, I am not scared of them. As for positives for me to accept, I have already done so, acknowledging that I had to take drugs to be on the path that I am now and I certainly don't regret it for every single experience I have ever had as they have made me who I am today.

I have condemned no use of drugs BUT I have said I do not recommend drugs to anybody as you never know how that person may react to them. Should they die from popping 'that' one pill or develop a serious addiction which destroys their life, then you'd still recommend that they take that chance dreamer? THAT'S small-mindedness!

[dreamer]

Fair enough kundalini.

[Enlightener]

acknowledging that I had to take drugs to be on the path that I am now and I certainly don't regret it for every single experience I have ever had as they have made me who I am today.

I have condemned no use of drugs BUT I have said I do not recommend drugs to anybody as you never know how that person may react to them. Should they die from popping 'that' one pill or develop a serious addiction which destroys their life, then you'd still recommend that they take that chance dreamer? THAT'S small-mindedness!

I would. There are many paths on the road to enlightenment and many streets in the city of evolution. You can go any waY you like and you will still reach your/our destination.

Ultimately and eternally, it is up to you, the individual inhabiting your physical body. Therefore any action you undertake may influence them, though it will not control them.

You/We/I are/am the creators of our reality and as we are all individuations of the whole we will affect each others creation. It is all intertwined and peices together like a puzzle. We are all putting down the peices. And although it never seems to end we will one day create an ultimate outpicturing and inpicturing of ourselves, the perfect image.

Shakatan

About recommending drugs to people. I would act without the thought of consequence. It is suffice that you think only of youself (as one).Maybe i'm just impersonal...


Enlightener

[dreamer]

Wise words, one step on - act in the knowledge that if your intention is pure the consequences will bear fruit of great sweetness.

[kundalini]

Wise words, one step on - act in the knowledge that if your intention is pure the consequences will bear fruit of great sweetness.

What Enlightener has actually said is I would recommend drugs without the thought of consequence so basically what you are actually saying is I would recommend them without thinking. Very unwise. The intention is not pure. I would call what has been said by Enlightener 'spiritual bunkum' as it bears no relation whatsoever to the issue of drugs.

By the way, I am not trying to convince you or Enlightener anymore of my point of view simply because you and Enlightener are so very set on recommending drugs to anyone, despite the consequences and now that I have insulted your views, you will not want to listen anyway.

You are of the opinion that well, one day we will all be whole anyway and keep referring to this 'one' business as though a person should not really care about anybody but themselves. That is just inconsiderate self-centredness and thoughtless too at that.

[Enlightener]

lol,

I do beleive that you should have care and love for your fellow man because, and get ready for the 'spiritual bunkum', we ARE all one and what you do for another you do for yourself. And what you do to another you do to yourself. It may not be so literal in reality but it still rings true if the paradigm of the universe is that we are all One.


I don't care if you insult me and I am always open to suggestion. Though I would recommend drugs to just about anyone because of the incredible joy and mind altering states that it brings me. Why wouldn't I want anyone to experience that? Ultimately it is up to you though.

Enlightener

[dreamer]

What Enlightener has actually said is I would recommend drugs without the thought of consequence so basically what you are actually saying is I would recommend them without thinking. Very unwise. The intention is not pure. I would call what has been said by Enlightener 'spiritual bunkum' as it bears no relation whatsoever to the issue of drugs.

By the way, I am not trying to convince you or Enlightener anymore of my point of view simply because you and Enlightener are so very set on recommending drugs to anyone, despite the consequences and now that I have insulted your views, you will not want to listen anyway.

You are of the opinion that well, one day we will all be whole anyway and keep referring to this 'one' business as though a person should not really care about anybody but themselves. That is just inconsiderate self-centredness and thoughtless too at that.


Kundalini,

Take a deep breath and ask yourself who is it you are getting angry at? Who is it you are (or were) trying to convince? What was it you were trying to convince "us" of?

"My" opinion seems to matter a lot to "you", deep down a voice is calling with this exact same opinion that is being manifested here under the guise of this "seperate" entity dreamer. I am only saying what you are asking for and that seems to be a fight, does this make sense now?

The outside is just a manifestation of the inside, it is all one and the same, you are fighting with your reflection and i with mine - got to see the comedy in that huh?

No hard feelings from "my" side.

[kundalini]

Firstly, Enlightener, I did not dispute the fact that we are ONE but to me it seems that a lot of people fall back on that especially when there is a very REAL debate going on and being 'ONE', wait for it, doesn't actually solve anything!

Secondly, Enlightener, have you even read any of the other posts in this thread? I too would recommend drugs to people were I convinced that everybody I recommended them to would have a joyful lifelong experience with them. However, it simply isn't true in everyone's case! Therefore, you may be saving a life not recomending them which to me is a lot better than 100,000 people all having joyful experiences. Thirdly, about drugs, they do not solve anything anyway so it is a false joy that you experience for it is only in conjunction with the length of the high the chemicals in the drugs allow you to experience.

dreamer, guess what? I already know that we are mirrors but it will not stop me from stating sensibilities. Let's face facts dreamer, a couple of posts ago and you said 'fair enough, kundalini' whether you were being sarcastic or not. Then because Enlightener posts some completely unrelated statements with regards to drugs, you suddenly pop right back up with 'Wise words, one step on - act in the knowledge that if your intention is pure the consequences will bear fruit of great sweetness.'

Now come on dreamer, Enlightener knows he is spouting rubbish simply because he is not taking other people's welfare into consideration when he acts with his 'PURE' intention of recommending drugs.

Regardless, I do see the comedy in all this but it surprises me you keep ignoring the other spiritual law in all of this - The Law Of Karma. Remember, Enlightener is stating that despite somebody dying immediately etc., that he would give no thought to that whatsoever. Think about it. Please THINK about it!

No hard feelings! ! !

Kundalini.

[dreamer]

Hey Kundalini,

I suppose the moral of the story is that drugs can have negative effects and they can have benificial effects, and who are we to police the decision making of any-one wanting to partake in this experience. No one policed us (or at least no one that we listened to) and so we should offer anyone the same choice that we afforded ourselves.

Sounds fair. What do ya reckon.

[kundalini]

Hey Kundalini,

I suppose the moral of the story is that drugs can have negative effects and they can have benificial effects, and who are we to police the decision making of any-one wanting to partake in this experience. No one policed us (or at least no one that we listened to) and so we should offer anyone the same choice that we afforded ourselves.

Sounds fair. What do ya reckon.

Lol, I reckon you have an answer for everything! No, seriously, I agree with what you say, drugs do have beneficial and negative effects and I have no wish to police decision-making on behalf of someone considering taking drugs, as long as they did not ask, of course. Whilst I also agree that people should be afforded the same choice we were offered, I do know that before I took drugs, they were some people around me saying yeah, yeah, take some drugs and there were others who were saying no, no don't take drugs. That's a general view of what happened anyway. Now I have had my experience of drug-taking, I am of the opinion that the negatives outweigh the positives and so were someone to ask, I would say don't bother. So, whilst I agree with what you have said, that would still be my position were I to be asked.

Thanks for reading, Kundalini.

[dreamer]

Sounds like a fair and balanced argument from both of us - yay, we got there in the end, high five.

[kundalini]

Sounds like a fair and balanced argument from both of us - yay, we got there in the end, high five.

I'm grateful for the experience, so yeah, high five!

[dreamer]

Round the back, down below....

[dreamer]

...sorry.too slow.

[Bob23]

Let's see what the late Terence McKenna had to say with regard a particular compound he researched for more than 25 years...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1829717950811836994

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3721378281014589551

:happy3:

[e-ma]

Thanks for those links. I had never seen Terence McKenna speak before. What a charismatic guy! And keeping a sense of humour too. I didn't realise that he was such a scientist. Pretty awful that he died so young from an aggressive brain cancer. See what a fascinating perspective one short life can contribute to society. :thumbsup:

[Bob23]

An absolutely fascinating read for those wishing to get informed:~

http://rickstrassman.com/dmt/

Bob23.

[traveller]

I

[Makoorakoo]

hiya all,
in my opinion drugs slow the body in its natural ability to do pretty much anything. I understand that using sensible amounts does help and has increased many peoples ability but the real skill in life to be able to see these realities etc. without the use of drugs is perhaps the best way to see what is.

love and blessings to all

[Mark_W]

I'm interested in what people think regarding psychedelics and their possible beneficial effects as well as harmful effects on spiritual life.

Personally speaking I would attribute my experimentation with psychedelics as partly kickstarting spriritual thoughts and beliefs. However, I'm very wary about this way of thinking. I agree with Alan Watts' take psychedelics when he says: "When you've got the message, hang up the phone."

[Enlightener]

hiya all,
in my opinion drugs slow the body in its natural ability to do pretty much anything. I understand that using sensible amounts does help and has increased many peoples ability but the real skill in life to be able to see these realities etc. without the use of drugs is perhaps the best way to see what is.

love and blessings to all


Too true!


The effect that drugs create on all three bodies that you possess (physical mental spiritual) is not entirely beneficial. In some cases, constant drug use can lead to madness, especially wjen using mind-altering drugs. But if you know that it is merely a distorted perception that you have attained and DON'T freak out about it you will surely have a much more enjoyable experience.


Enlightener (loves you)