A message from Jesus

[Perry J]

Hi,
Does Jesus talk to us through Kim Michaels
( http://www.askrealjesus.com/index.html ) ?
It's up to you to decide. This is from the book The Christ Is Born In You, by Kim Michaels (or is it Jesus himself?)

I want everyone to receive this message
I desire that every single person who calls himself or herself a Christian will be presented with this message. I am not asking you to force anyone to read it, but I am asking you to help me give everyone the opportunity to read it.
The truth is that my Father in Heaven has declared that the time has come to banish the spirit of anti-christ from the Earth. Yet God’s law requires that for this to happen, all people must be given the opportunity to choose the true master of the Christ self over the false master, the mammon, of the carnal self. And thus all people deserve to be told about the existence of their Christ selves and their potential to merge with that self and put on the mind of Christ.
If you are willing to help with this cosmic undertaking, then I ask you to take this message and run with it. Duplicate and spread it in whatever form you can.[1] Send it or give it to anyone you meet and do not judge who is open and who is not. Simply present them with my message and give them their freedom to accept it or reject it as they see fit. Your job is to give people the opportunity to choose. Their job is to choose this day whom they will serve, to decide whether they will choose life, the life of the Christ mind, or choose death, the death of the carnal mind, the consciousness of anti-christ.
I am asking for your help to preach my true Gospel to every creature. In truth, there is nothing more important you can do for me in this age than to internalize my inner teachings and then help me spread those teachings to every human being on Earth. If you are willing to help me, then take this message and let it spread like rings on the water, until it has reached every shore. Tell people that the safe harbor for which they yearn is located in their own hearts. The lighthouse, which will guide them to the harbor, is their Christ selves and the
harbor master is the living Jesus Christ. I will welcome them with open arms and a heart that overflows with unconditional love, the perfect love that will cast out all fear.
If you love me, keep my commandments. Behind all other commandments is one overall commandment, namely the key of knowledge itself, the key to the inner kingdom. This master commandment is that you put on the mind of Christ so that these words are true for you:
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. (1John 3:2)
Dare to be like me, and I promise you that you shall see me as I am, for I AM THAT I AM, Jesus Christ, and I seal you in my perfect love. It is finished!

[earthprowler]

weird, i just got an email that said "Jesus knows you're here". :D

[LightFilledHeart]

weird, i just got an email that said "Jesus knows you're here". :D

Pretty cryptic :D

[Miss Hepburn]

-choose the true master of the Chist self
-the existence of their Christ selves
- put on the mind of Christ.
- the life of the Christ mind.
-Tell people that the safe harbor for which they yearn is located in their own hearts.
-is their Christ selves
- Behind all other commandments is one overall commandment, namely the key of knowledge itself, the key to the inner kingdom. This master commandment is that you put on the mind of Christ
-we shall be like him
-Dare to be like me

These words really stood out for me, thank you.

I know very little - maybe these are the words of Jesus coming to this woman - I haven't clicked onto the link yet. I love Jesus and consider him my guru/teacher.
There is so much I don't know.

Thank you for sharing this, Perry.
:smile: Miss Hepburn

[Miss Hepburn]

Ah, nice website - I just opened up "How Christianity perverted Jesus' Teachings".

Next will be "Follow me not Peter.
"The Inner Path of Christ"
"Did Jesus Come to Start a Religion?"

Thank you very much, Perry.
:smile:

[Miss Hepburn]

Excerpt I found on the site:

"As you climb that mountain of God, you will rise above the dualistic illusions of the ego.
You will even come to the point, where the devil himself – as a personification of your ego-illusions – will meet you on that high mountain.

He will show you the kingdoms of this world and give you the final temptation of offering you control over the kingdoms of this world in exchange for your soul.
And yet because you have bonded with your Christ self, you will be able to withstand that temptation as the Lord Jesus Christ was able to withstand it. Therefore, you can rebuke the devil and say, “What does it profit me to gain the whole world of materialistic illusions and lose my own soul in those illusions?
I choose to leave behind the kingdoms of ego-illusions and enter the kingdom of God within me!”

Oh my beloved hearts, can you see that you are not trapped in a net of illusions from which there is no way out? Can you see that there truly is a way out, and it is the spiritual path demonstrated by the Lord Christ and by the Lord Gautama Buddha and by so many other spiritual teachers who have come to show you the way out of ego-illusions?

Can you see that the essence of all spirituality, of all true religion, and of all personal growth is that you transcend
the dualistic illusions of the ego and realign yourself with the truth of God?

Can you see that the essence of the spiritual path is that you separate yourself, that your soul separates itself, from the lower will of the ego
and lovingly reunites with the true will of your I AM Presence?
Your Presence is an individualization of the will of God, a unique individualization that makes you the uniquely beautiful individual that you are.

[Apakhana Akshobhya]

Jesus owes me $10 and a sandwich. He also cheats at poker...

Lol, jk.

The statements in the excerpt make sense. I know my being, my own verb. I am that I am, I will be what I will be. I just wish my consciousness could stay like that all the time, when one needs it the most.

[PrincessKLS]

But what if someone follows a different religion and isn't moved by this? What are the consequences of not accepting the "true master"?

[Miss Hepburn]

But what if someone follows a different religion and isn't moved by this? What are the consequences of not accepting the "true master"?
Did it say"true master" in there? I missed it if it did - but if it did, what I have felt from all that I have read so far - is it is pointing within, period to
our highest selves -a topic on the site is "Jesus didn't come to start some religion" or to follow all sorts of externals!

It's all within - it's the "mind of Christ" and the Christ consciousness within -
or Buddha Consciousness - just getting rid of what stands in our way and that's the human ego.

A person could be Moslem or Wiccan and agree with that, I think, right?
I found it to be Universal...maybe it was my interpretation.

:)

[psychoslice]

Yes we are all the Christ, that is our true connection to our source, Consciousness, God or whatever you want to call it but its also the Buddha or Krishna Consciousness also. This thread which is our connection to all runs through all religions but most just can't see it, we need to Realize this and live from that higher Consciousness, then we can say with all power from within," I live yet not I but Christ liveth within me", this is my message from Christ within me..

[Dragonfly1]

Well it lost me at any single person who calls him/herself a christian....
Christ is from God, and God is everything.....no discriminating any religion. Im not so sure about the teachings of the bible.....they have been (forgive the language) *******ised of the the centuries to suit those who would use the bible as a means of control.
I for one do not in all seriousness believe these are channelled words of Christ, these are the preachings of a religious person. And please, my words are not meant to be of any offense to anyone at all.....these are just my personal views.
Namaste
xx

[psychoslice]

Well it lost me at any single person who calls him/herself a christian....
Christ is from God, and God is everything.....no discriminating any religion. Im not so sure about the teachings of the bible.....they have been (forgive the language) *******ised of the the centuries to suit those who would use the bible as a means of control.
I for one do not in all seriousness believe these are channelled words of Christ, these are the preachings of a religious person. And please, my words are not meant to be of any offense to anyone at all.....these are just my personal views.
Namaste
xx
yes you are right and at the same time you are wrong, the scriptures have been played around with for many years but we must look past the scriptures and even within the scriptures to understand with spiritual discernment what is truth and what is not, otherwise we only throw out the baby with the bath water. Just an understanding of what the Christ really means makes a world of difference, like I said earlier the Christ is our true SELF, its our connection to Consciousness or as some say, the Father.:hug3: John 5, 39 . Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

[Miss Hepburn]

Yes we are all the Christ, that is our true connection to our source, Consciousness, God or whatever you want to call it but its also the Buddha or Krishna Consciousness also. This thread which is our connection to all runs through all religions but most just can't see it, we need to Realize this and live from that higher Consciousness, then we can say with all power from within," I live yet not I but Christ liveth within me", this is my message from Christ within me..
Absolutely, 100% - I'm parcial to Krishna Consciouness myself.
(I mean if you wanted to split hairs Jesus was the Son of God - while Krishna was the Incarnation of God, right? Haha! :wink: )
May I call you, psycho, for short, what would you prefer -bec your name is just too long to type each time? I've been reading many of your posts and agree
with them all, btw...knew I'd be talking to you soon.
:smile: Miss Hepburn

[Miss Hepburn]

Well it lost me at any single person who calls him/herself a christian....
Christ is from God, and God is everything.....no discriminating any religion. Im not so sure about the teachings of the bible.....they have been (forgive the language) *******ised of the the centuries to suit those who would use the bible as a means of control.
I for one do not in all seriousness believe these are channelled words of Christ, these are the preachings of a religious person. And please, my words are not meant to be of any offense to anyone at all.....these are just my personal views.
Namaste
xx
Yes, what Mr. Slice just said.

I am sorry to say that though I love Jesus and His teachings - I can not call myself a Christian for fear I could be lumped together with holierthanthou types that may say another is going to eternal hell if they don't think the same. Oyvay, whatever. Makes me want to run to be a Christian...not. Yes, fear always makes
one want to join a group...right?

I have no vested interest whether these words are channeled from Jesus myself.
But, I respect any message that would include Christ Consciousness in the same sentence as Buddha Consciouness and says it's all inside us, I say bravo.
And my words are not meant to offend either.
:smile: Miss Hepburn

[LightFilledHeart]

Yes, what Mr. Slice just said.

I am sorry to say that though I love Jesus and His teachings - I can not call myself a Christian for fear I could be lumped together with holierthanthou types that may say another is going to eternal hell if they don't think the same. Oyvay, whatever. Makes me want to run to be a Christian...not. Yes, fear always makes
one want to join a group...right?

I have no vested interest whether these words are channeled from Jesus myself.
But, I respect any message that would include Christ Consciousness in the same sentence as Buddha Consciouness and says it's all inside us, I say bravo.
And my words are not meant to offend either.
:smile: Miss Hepburn

Lovely post, Miss... I find myself nodding throughout, in total accord :smile: I've always appreciated the statements of two famous individuals. Iconoclastic filmmaker Woody Allen, who said, "If Jesus came back and saw what was being said and done in his name, he'd never stop throwing up", and the man who freed east India from British rule, Mahatma Gandhi, who said, "I like your Christ very much. Your Christians, not so much. They are nothing like him..." :wink:

[shaya48]

Lovely post, Miss... I find myself nodding throughout, in total accord :smile: I've always appreciated the statements of two famous individuals. Iconoclastic filmmaker Woody Allen, who said, "If Jesus came back and saw what was being said and done in his name, he'd never stop throwing up", and the man who freed east India from British rule, Mahatma Gandhi, who said, "I like your Christ very much. Your Christians, not so much. They are nothing like him..." :wink:
HEY MY DEAR FRIEND:hug3:
LOVED THAT SOOOOO MUCH, POOR GOD EVERY ONE BLAMES HIM FOR EVERYTHING, TAKES HIS NAME IN VAIN, PUTS MAN MADE RULES TO HIS NAME IN RELIGION IF ONLY THEY REALLY KNEW THE LOVE HE HAS FOR US ALL AND ONLY WANTS THE BEST FOR US ALL HERE WHILE WE ARE HAVING OUR EXPERIENCE HERE ON THE EARTH PLANE, IT IS UP TO US HOW WE LIVE WHILE WE ARE HERE, SHOWING A LITTLE KINDNESS AND COMPASSION TO OTHERS SO PLEASE STOP BLAMING GOD FOR OUR WRONGS OR WHAT YOU THINK OR BELIEVE HE WOULD PUT HIS NAME TO WITH RELIGION THAT OR FRIGHTENS OTHERS TO DEATH FEARING HIM INSTEAD OF KNOWING HE IS THERE FOR US ALL WITH HIS LOVE AND GUIDANCE AND UNCONDITIONAL LOVE.
AND WHEN SOMETHING GOES WRONG IN OUR LIVES WE BLAME GOD OR BELIEVE WE ARE BEING PUNISHED THIS IS NOT SO.

WE IN LIFE WILL HAVE THE GOOD AND THE NOT SO GOOD WE ARE HERE TO EXPERIENCE EVERY ASPECT OF LIFE AND OF OURSELVES WE DO NOT GAIN WISDOM AND KNOWLEDGE WITH OUT HAVING THE NECESSARY EXPERIENCES WE CHOSE TO HAVE FOR OUR LEARNING HERE, WE ARE ALL STUDENTS AND TEACHERS IF WE CHOSE TO WANT TO LEARN IT IS ALWAYS OUR CHOICE.


LOVE TO YOU LIGHT FILLED HEART SHAYA:hug3:xxxxxxxxxxxx :hug:

[Perry J]

Thank you for this response!

A closer study of this site reveals that Jesus consider religion as has been practiced - including Christanity - as a major hindrance to spiritual progress.

He would agree very much to "A belief system is nothing but poison to your capacity to understand" (thank you psychoslice)

It so becomes when the human ego takes over religion. The teachings about the ego is the real valuable message, and one understands that Jesus' teaching from the very beginning was about the human ego.

The ego is a pseudo-me, a false self, that can only define itself in dualistic polarities, in opposites. It feeds on conflict. It is always a "THEY" who are the bad guys, "WE" are always the good ones.
There are always some outer threat, or problem, that takes our attention from the inner Kingdom.

Every religion - meaning their spiritual scriptures -adresses the ego. Even Rumi, the Sufi poet (Islam), and Lao Tzu (Chinese philosophy).

But when the ego takes over religion, you are told not to look within, instead you must follow an outer doctrine, an outer authority (priest), who places himself between you and God. The first pope was a Roman Emperor. Christianity (the Catholic Church) was not about Jesus' true teachings, it was (and is) about power. An extension of the Roman Empire. The pope IS considered God on Earth, so was the Roman Emperor!

See Kim Michaels videos, too. This one is great, and it is about what is necessary to know about belief systems...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS_x6WJ-z0A (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .youtube.com%252Fwatch%253Fv%253DrS_x6WJ-z0A)

[Dragonfly1]

Thanks slice, but in reality its not your right to judge wether Im right or wrong you don't have that power or insight, only your own belief system to go by, which doesn't make my reality of what I know, to be wrong or false.

My words were no indication of my Christ conciousness at all, I have always know Jesus Christ is real, i have witnessed him in meditation. I do not like religions in any shape or form, thats just me. I know God, I know him/it in my bones. I don't need a scripture of any kind to know of the Divine, it is within myself.

[psychoslice]

Absolutely, 100% - I'm parcial to Krishna Consciouness myself.
(I mean if you wanted to split hairs Jesus was the Son of God - while Krishna was the Incarnation of God, right? Haha! :wink: )
May I call you, psycho, for short, what would you prefer -bec your name is just too long to type each time? I've been reading many of your posts and agree
with them all, btw...knew I'd be talking to you soon.
:smile: Miss Hepburn
Hi Miss Hepburn, its nice to meet you, yea I like to use Krishna Consciousness also, Krishna looks more sexy than Jesus lol. Yea just call me Psycho, I like that, you'll find that I live up to that name lol.:hug3:

[psychoslice]

Thanks slice, but in reality its not your right to judge wether Im right or wrong you don't have that power or insight, only your own belief system to go by, which doesn't make my reality of what I know, to be wrong or false.

My words were no indication of my Christ conciousness at all, I have always know Jesus Christ is real, i have witnessed him in meditation. I do not like religions in any shape or form, thats just me. I know God, I know him/it in my bones. I don't need a scripture of any kind to know of the Divine, it is within myself.
Yep and I agree totally with you, sorry I didn't mean anything by saying you are right and also wrong, gee I'm wrong with everything I say lol.:hug:

[Dragonfly1]

Gee slice, whats going on?.....this is not the slice im used to.... its nothing to do with being wrong with what you say.... I was expressing what I feel about religion, and how I perceived the 'chanelled' message. I can be just a tad sensitive to what i feel at times, but I do respect others opinions on things..... And man, you do like to have the last word......looking forward to your reply :wink: :hug:

Cheers and Namaste xxxx

[psychoslice]

Gee slice, whats going on?.....this is not the slice im used to.... its nothing to do with being wrong with what you say.... I was expressing what I feel about religion, and how I perceived the 'chanelled' message. I can be just a tad sensitive to what i feel at times, but I do respect others opinions on things..... And man, you do like to have the last word......looking forward to your reply :wink: :hug:

Cheers and Namaste xxxx
I love my little Scorpio girl. xx

[7luminaries]

OK...now pls excuse and note this is TOTALLY in good fun...and no offense meant...

But I may need to start a mindless thread in another section to rate the attractiveness of the well known masters & sages throughout the ages...

Or maybe Psychoslice can do it?
LOL! I will be the first to reply as I too have my opinions on this humble and irreverent topic...


Now back on point...I think the thread here has a wonderful message generally and I fully took the universal aspects of it...

Cheers!
7L

[Shen Mashel]

I don't want to address myself to the origin of the message or the messenger cos i believe in what the message wants to say.We must work for our inner selves but also help others reach a state of inner awareness and love.

[LaMont Cranston]

Perry J., I think that this is a very interesting subject, and I've spent some time checking out Kim Michaels' website. However, I do have a number of problems with believing that Mr. Michaels is the sole conveyor of messages from Jesus. In fact, I think that Jesus speaks to and through many of us, and some of the people with whom he communicates seem to get the idea that they are the modern incarnation of Jesus, or that they are the only one who receives messages.

In my own life, I have had many of the experiences that Mr. Michaels talks about, and so have quite a few other people I've either known or heard about. In my case, I grew up in a not very religious Jewish family, and I knew absolutely nothing about Jesus. More than that, I wasn't particularly interested.

So, I didn't go looking for Jesus, but I found him anyway. At some point in my life, I became much more interested in such things as religion, spirituality, philosophy, history, the nature of consciousness, unconditional love and other subjects. My interest in finding out what love was about led me into checking out what Jesus had to say on the subject, and I was totally blown away. I still am!

I consider myself to be an enthusiastic student of life, a seeker of information, and I continue to examine the words and deeds of Jesus and other spiritual icons. From what I can tell, there is nothing more exciting, wonderful, interesting powerful or important than love, and I still feel like I'm a beginner at knowing about this subject. Hopefully, I will always be finding out more about this part of life.

We might consider why the teachings of Jesus are so powerful. After all, we are dealing with a relatively obscure teacher from a remote part of the Roman Empire who was nailed to a cross. At the time, there were other religious movements and would-be messiahs who had larger followings than Jesus, but his teachings have lasted for 2000 years and counting, and all of the others have faded into obscurity.

In my quest for information and viewpoints, I've joined a number of Christian and atheist forums. I've heard some people say that Christianity caught a lucky break (or something like that) or that Constantine and some others devised a religion to control the masses. Of course, this ignores the fact that, despite its humble beginings, Christianity had become pretty well established before Constantine made his conversion in 313 a.d.

What works for me is that the reason Christianity (regardless of how many have corrupted and compromised the teachings of Jesus) made it and the others didn't is that what Jesus had to say was and still is that powerful. Even with the corruptions and compromises, we can still figure out what Jesus was saying to us and apply his teachings to our own lives.

So, did Jesus communicate with Kim Michaels? I'm more than willing to believe that happened. Did Jesus communicate with Kim Michaels exclusively? Based on my own experiences and the experiences of others, I believe that Jesus has communicated with many of us, myself included, and this is an ongoing process.

One of my favorite parts of the Bible is where Jesus is standing by the water and telling the simple people around him that they will be fishers of men. I lot of fisherman, carpenters, masons and others have come and gone, but we still know the names of at least some of those who heard the call and followed Jesus. I'd say that Jesus called that one right!

More than that, I'd say that one of the communications that Jesus has made to us is that we are all fishers of men.

[norseman]

I am definitely not christian, yet I honour Christ as a teacher of mankind on a par with Buddha and similar sages. Sadly, the organised religion which has proliferated around the teachings does seem to attract many charlatans.

[sound]

Can I ask how old Jesus was when he passed over? I am not familiar with the finer details of his life ...

[LightFilledHeart]

Can I ask how old Jesus was when he passed over? I am not familiar with the finer details of his life ...

There are differences of opinion on that one (and I use the word "opinion" deliberately, for there is no incontravertable evidence to prove one or the other!). It depends on whether you believe he was put to death on the cross and then asceneded into heaven as the Christians tell the tale, or if you believe those who offer evidence to support his having been only close to death and having been tended and administered to by eastern sages skilled in the arts of healing who restored him and spirited him away, taking him to India where it is said he lived to a ripe old age, passing his wisdom and knowledge to all with whom he came into contact. If you believe the first, then he died at the age of 33. If you believe the latter, it would be a much more advanced age.

[norseman]

You forgot the "opinion" that he never existed as a single person in the first place. Difficult to be sure when the bible has been revised, re-interpreted, translated, abridged, etc so many times to fit church doctrine.

[Miss Hepburn]

Lovely post, Miss... I find myself nodding throughout, in total accord :smile: I've always appreciated the statements of two famous individuals. Iconoclastic filmmaker Woody Allen, who said, "If Jesus came back and saw what was being said and done in his name, he'd never stop throwing up", and the man who freed east India from British rule, Mahatma Gandhi, who said, "I like your Christ very much. Your Christians, not so much. They are nothing like him..." :wink:
Somehow I missed this post. :smile:

And I also know those 2 quotes!! Btw, have you ever investigated ACIM, Light filled?
A Course In Miracles...I did just this year and it opened me to enormous changes in my beliefs so ingrained in me. Maybe I should start a new thread on what I learned!
:smile: Miss Hepburn

[Miss Hepburn]

A closer study of this site reveals that Jesus considers religion as has been practiced - including Christanity - as a major hindrance to spiritual progress.

Ah, you can say that again!
:smile: Miss Hepburn

[Miss Hepburn]

You forgot the "opinion" that he never existed as a single person in the first place. Difficult to be sure when the bible has been revised, re-interpreted, translated, abridged, etc so many times to fit church doctrine.
An agnostic asked me that: How would I feel if Jesus never existed.
I said - to me I never thought of him till 4 years ago and I was doing more than fine.
If he didn't exist - then whoever made up his instructions was very smart!
Do not worry, give me your burdens, do not fear, believe and receive- or Paul's Be anxious for nothing, focus on the things above and not the things on earth...bla bla.
They all work!!!
I have never had a personal encounter with Jesus -I respect others have...in NDEs or in this life.

I personally think Jesus is way too important in Christianity, HA! - the Father
is left out.
My goal is the Father - not His Son, if He was.
With all due respect to Jesus - I think he would be delighted in the afterlife if we hugged and I was in awe and then said, "Now, can we go see Dad?"

:smile: Miss Hepburn

[LightFilledHeart]

Somehow I missed this post. :smile:

And I also know those 2 quotes!! Btw, have you ever investigated ACIM, Light filled?
A Course In Miracles...I did just this year and it opened me to enormous changes in my beliefs so ingrained in me. Maybe I should start a new thread on what I learned!
:smile: Miss Hepburn

I am somewhat familiar with A Course In Miracles, though I confess I have not studied it. A male friend used to call it "teachings from the church of the tight black sweater", aluding to Marianne Williamson's penchant for wearing them, LOL! I do disagree with their stance on reincarnation, however. Not that I have incontravertable proof, mind you, but my gut feeling and personal experiences indicate we do return to the earth over and over to live many lives. A thread on the Course In Miracles might be a good idea :D Get some lively discussion goin! :hug3:

[LightFilledHeart]

You forgot the "opinion" that he never existed as a single person in the first place. Difficult to be sure when the bible has been revised, re-interpreted, translated, abridged, etc so many times to fit church doctrine.

Right, or even that he was the actual one crucified! Many say otherwise. So many theories and opinions... who could know?! :D

[norseman]

"my gut feeling and personal experiences indicate we do return to the earth over and over to live many lives" LightFilledHeart

Good pagan doctrine - the Eternal Return

[LightFilledHeart]

"my gut feeling and personal experiences indicate we do return to the earth over and over to live many lives" LightFilledHeart

Good pagan doctrine - the Eternal Return




Hiya Norse :smile:

The Eternal Return... I like that :smile: I don't belong to any religious sect... just never been much of a joiner!.. but I do have high respect for the pagan beliefs and old earth religions that honor Mother Goddess and Gaia.

[LightFilledHeart]

I personally think Jesus is way too important in Christianity, HA! - the Father
is left out.
My goal is the Father - not His Son, if He was.
With all due respect to Jesus - I think he would be delighted in the afterlife if we hugged and I was in awe and then said, "Now, can we go see Dad?"

:smile: Miss Hepburn

I like the way you think, Miss.... we "grok" :D

[LightFilledHeart]

Originally Posted by Perry J
A closer study of this site reveals that Jesus considers religion as has been practiced - including Christanity - as a major hindrance to spiritual progress.



Ah, you can say that again!
:smile: Miss Hepburn

Here here!! :D

[ACIM guy]

If you guys want to start a thread on ACIM I'd be pleased . . . they discount reincarnation on the grounds that the study of it in one's past may provide merely a distraction to the RIGHT NOW
- - but I've always known I've lived before I knew it when I was 8 and my mom took me to the Methodist church ! : )

[ACIM guy]

I am delighted over and over with all these comments. Here are many who have come to the conclusion that they must honor themselves and they (you) HEAR GOD speak!
We must come to that personal realization; that we are connected to God. Religion can enter into it but can be a major hindrance It's all about the individual's personal relationship with God; this is what we are here, and everywhere, (especially the Earth school) to develop, create for ourselves and come to understand
when we die and God asks us "What religion were you?" He will throw back His head and laugh with us in joy if we can say I've always loved You and You showed me it's ME, not some written down teaching . . .

[Perry J]

Perry J., I think that this is a very interesting subject, and I've spent some time checking out Kim Michaels' website. However, I do have a number of problems with believing that Mr. Michaels is the sole conveyor of messages from Jesus. In fact, I think that Jesus speaks to and through many of us, and some of the people with whom he communicates seem to get the idea that they are the modern incarnation of Jesus, or that they are the only one who receives messages.

In my own life, I have had many of the experiences that Mr. Michaels talks about, and so have quite a few other people I've either known or heard about. In my case, I grew up in a not very religious Jewish family, and I knew absolutely nothing about Jesus. More than that, I wasn't particularly interested.

So, I didn't go looking for Jesus, but I found him anyway. At some point in my life, I became much more interested in such things as religion, spirituality, philosophy, history, the nature of consciousness, unconditional love and other subjects. My interest in finding out what love was about led me into checking out what Jesus had to say on the subject, and I was totally blown away. I still am!

I consider myself to be an enthusiastic student of life, a seeker of information, and I continue to examine the words and deeds of Jesus and other spiritual icons. From what I can tell, there is nothing more exciting, wonderful, interesting powerful or important than love, and I still feel like I'm a beginner at knowing about this subject. Hopefully, I will always be finding out more about this part of life.

We might consider why the teachings of Jesus are so powerful. After all, we are dealing with a relatively obscure teacher from a remote part of the Roman Empire who was nailed to a cross. At the time, there were other religious movements and would-be messiahs who had larger followings than Jesus, but his teachings have lasted for 2000 years and counting, and all of the others have faded into obscurity.

In my quest for information and viewpoints, I've joined a number of Christian and atheist forums. I've heard some people say that Christianity caught a lucky break (or something like that) or that Constantine and some others devised a religion to control the masses. Of course, this ignores the fact that, despite its humble beginings, Christianity had become pretty well established before Constantine made his conversion in 313 a.d.

What works for me is that the reason Christianity (regardless of how many have corrupted and compromised the teachings of Jesus) made it and the others didn't is that what Jesus had to say was and still is that powerful. Even with the corruptions and compromises, we can still figure out what Jesus was saying to us and apply his teachings to our own lives.

So, did Jesus communicate with Kim Michaels? I'm more than willing to believe that happened. Did Jesus communicate with Kim Michaels exclusively? Based on my own experiences and the experiences of others, I believe that Jesus has communicated with many of us, myself included, and this is an ongoing process.

One of my favorite parts of the Bible is where Jesus is standing by the water and telling the simple people around him that they will be fishers of men. I lot of fisherman, carpenters, masons and others have come and gone, but we still know the names of at least some of those who heard the call and followed Jesus. I'd say that Jesus called that one right!

More than that, I'd say that one of the communications that Jesus has made to us is that we are all fishers of men.
Thank you, LaMont,
I also think that Jesus communicates to many people. This is also said on this website. He communicates to everyone who is open to the message and dares to look beyond the ego and the mental boxes (I like that expression: mental box!).
All this "the only"-talk is a Catholic creation. Jesus is not even "the only" son of God! - every man is the son (daughter) of God!
What really is the only son of God, is not the person Jesus Christ, but the Christ Consciousness. This is a consciousness of ONENESS that every man can reach - by following Jesus' example.

By postulating Jesus as the only son of God, the Catholic priests could place themselves between people and their God, accusing those who dare to follow Jesus' example for blasphemy. The pope, on the other hand, is "the only way to Jesus"!

I personally believe that The Roman Catholic Church is what is known as antichrist.

There is very much to study on this website, indeed. I have been there for some years, and I think what everyone should read is the section about the ego. Eckhart Tolle describes the ego very clearly, but this is even better:
http://www.askrealjesus.com/askrealjesus/rejectchrist/basicego/leastego/leastego1.html (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .askrealjesus.com%252Faskrealjesus%252Frejectchris t%252Fbasicego%252Fleastego%252Fleastego1.html)

[frankharris]

Not trying to be cynical but there's a lot of merchandise on that website!

Frank

[ACIM guy]

Miss Hepburn said she hated the ego / her ego
I tend to hate mine too, but let's look at the powerful practice of accepting our shadow selves in order to resolve them and so heal our Souls

It has been said that you become what you fight

Shamans (some, anyway) will tell you to accept your dark side. If we keep fighting and resisting it it simply persists . . . this is also in psychology I believe.
Shamans might call this "Soul retrieval;" the gist of this as I understand it is there's a part of your Soul that is held captive by your inner devil, which consists of your fears, angers, hatreds etc. and all the stuff you resist, reject or resent . . . and your guilts are very much your jailer

So how do we clear all this stuff and resolve our angers etc and restore the lost part of our Soul?

(Oh yeah, I know it's possible. I'm no expert, I have my own unresolved angers etc. but I would like to resolve them all and enter peace)

I'm gonna post a new thread about this in "Spiritual Development" under Spirituality & Beliefs

[LaMont Cranston]

Perry J, From what I can tell, we agree on quite a few things. I suspect that if we were talking to Jesus about some of the things that are attributed to him, he would have a lot more to say that would clarify where he was coming from.

For instance, one of his lines "Do not suppose I come to bring peace, but, rather a sword," has been taken by many to mean that Jesus was advocating violence. I don't see it that way. I think he was just describing what was going to happen when he came. I think it means something like "When the stuff I'm talking about gets out there into the world, into the hands of people, it is really going to hit the fan, and it's going to be like that for a long time."

I have no doubt that Jesus would say "You are all sons and daughters of God. At the time, nobody wanted to hear it said in that clean of a manner."

I also see some people on this thread who question that Jesus even existed. As I've said, I've seen some people suggest that Christianity (regardless of how it has come down over the centuries) caught a lucky break or that Constantine and some others devised a belief system to control the masses. After examining all of the possibilities, what works best for me is that Jesus really existed, and the reason his teachings are still very much with us (and will continue to be) is that they are that powerful.

Even if Jesus did not exist, there is no way to deny the impact that his words and deeds have had on the world for 2000 years and counting. I totally agree that there is a vast difference between what Jesus was talking about and what has come down as organized religion(s), but the teachings are still there for us to examine and apply to our own lives.

I have a problem with those people who talk about hating the ego, destroying the ego, killing the ego, etc. In a very real sense, we are a consciousness that's experiencing life in a flesh and blood suit. Ever since Freud (although he didn't originate the idea), there has been this idea that our consciousness is somehow divided into parts (i.e. id, ego, super-ego) that don't completely communicate with each other.

Even those many people who have dismissed Freud's ideas have latched onto some model of consciousness that incorporates this idea. I also see people giving labels to parts of our consciousness (i.e. the shadow self, the I, the conditioned vs unconditioned self and on and on). All of these things are just some imaginary part of our consciousness, and there is no way to differentiate between one part (i.e. ego) and all the rest.

I think that we should recognize and appreciate the ego for what it is, part of who we are. Yes, there are people who are so caught up in what we like to think of as the ego that we even have bad names for them (i.e. egomaniac), but if we hate our own egos, we are hating part of who we are.

OK, I've got to go. See you later...

[Perry J]

Perry J, From what I can tell, we agree on quite a few things. I suspect that if we were talking to Jesus about some of the things that are attributed to him, he would have a lot more to say that would clarify where he was coming from.

For instance, one of his lines "Do not suppose I come to bring peace, but, rather a sword," has been taken by many to mean that Jesus was advocating violence. I don't see it that way. I think he was just describing what was going to happen when he came. I think it means something like "When the stuff I'm talking about gets out there into the world, into the hands of people, it is really going to hit the fan, and it's going to be like that for a long time."

I have no doubt that Jesus would say "You are all sons and daughters of God. At the time, nobody wanted to hear it said in that clean of a manner."

I also see some people on this thread who question that Jesus even existed. As I've said, I've seen some people suggest that Christianity (regardless of how it has come down over the centuries) caught a lucky break or that Constantine and some others devised a belief system to control the masses. After examining all of the possibilities, what works best for me is that Jesus really existed, and the reason his teachings are still very much with us (and will continue to be) is that they are that powerful.

Even if Jesus did not exist, there is no way to deny the impact that his words and deeds have had on the world for 2000 years and counting. I totally agree that there is a vast difference between what Jesus was talking about and what has come down as organized religion(s), but the teachings are still there for us to examine and apply to our own lives.

I have a problem with those people who talk about hating the ego, destroying the ego, killing the ego, etc. In a very real sense, we are a consciousness that's experiencing life in a flesh and blood suit. Ever since Freud (although he didn't originate the idea), there has been this idea that our consciousness is somehow divided into parts (i.e. id, ego, super-ego) that don't completely communicate with each other.

Even those many people who have dismissed Freud's ideas have latched onto some model of consciousness that incorporates this idea. I also see people giving labels to parts of our consciousness (i.e. the shadow self, the I, the conditioned vs unconditioned self and on and on). All of these things are just some imaginary part of our consciousness, and there is no way to differentiate between one part (i.e. ego) and all the rest.

I think that we should recognize and appreciate the ego for what it is, part of who we are. Yes, there are people who are so caught up in what we like to think of as the ego that we even have bad names for them (i.e. egomaniac), but if we hate our own egos, we are hating part of who we are.

OK, I've got to go. See you later...
Hi LaMont,
You have misunderstood about the ego. The ego addressed by Jesus is not Freud's ego, and it is not a part of our personality, because it's a false self that entirely feeds on fear. It's is an identification - not our true personality. And it is absolutely NOT a matter of "hating" it or "resisting" it, that would strenghten the ego because the ego is what hates.
No, it 's a matter of letting it be AS IT IS.
The ego is not some force which must be defeated by another force. Just let it be, while looking at it. Don't go into it. This is "turning the other cheek". The ego feeds on fear and conflict. One must disidentify with it.

All identifications - also false ones - have their survival instinct. And we can identify with almost anything.

Concerning the Sword, I have read it's the sword of Truth, which cleaves the real from the unreal.
The ulitmate unreal is the belief that humans have not created their own situation. The ultimate real is that human beings are completely responsible for the conditions on Earth. The ego rests on our unwillingness to take responsibility over our own lives. And this is, well, somewhat controversial to say.

[LaMont Cranston]

Perry J, I get it that what Jesus was talking about is not Freud's conception of the ego. If anything, I would say that Jesus was talking about our "dark side," that part of us that has us do things in a mean-spirited, unloving manner.

What I see being offered up on this forum, by some people, is the ego that we must destroy the ego. If what you're talking about is recognizing the ego for what it is, a part of our consciousness, then I have no problem with it. If people are talking about the ego as some negative thing, even something to hate, then we are considering hating part of who we are. What that comes down to is that we are the ones who are carrying around the hate.

I've examined what Jesus was talking about when he said that we should turn the other cheek. When I was younger, I thought it was a rather stupid thing to do. I mean, if somebody hits you, hit them back even harder, right?

When I actually looked into what Jesus was saying, I noticed that most of the versions of that line say "If somebody hits you in one cheek..." That "if" is very important. What I take the line to mean is that "if" you are standing in front of somebody with bad intentions for you, bad to the point of violence, then it is a wise thing to do to put some distance between you and them. However, "if' they have already hit you, and you're still standing there, you might as well let them hit you in the other cheek.

In my own experience, I have found that it takes a wiser and stronger person to walk away from stupid conflicts, and I've learned to do that most of the time.

As for "the Sword," where did you read that interpretation? There are many interpretations given to what Jesus said and did, but I do not think that Jesus was advocating violence.

Yes, it is somewhat controversial to suggest that people are in control of and responsible for their words, thoughts and deeds. I have butted heads with a number of people on this forum who have a set of arguments to support the idea that we are not responsible for anything we do. Denying something, including responsibility, does not make it so.

I feel that I am responsible for what I do in my life, including how I treat others. Even though I accept responsibility, I also recognize that I have that part of my being called an ego. I do not find that knowing of our own responsibility and recognizing that we have an ego have to be in conflict. In fact, I see no inherent conflict between the two.

Take care...

[Perry J]

LaMont,
Wisely spoken. What I said about the Sword was written in the book I referenced to before; however I also find it now on the site (I just entered "sword" in the search applet). Here we assume that it is Jesus self who talks:

I hope you can see what I am trying to explain here. As long as the soul identifies with the carnal mind, the soul does not see any reason to change. That is why I said: “I come not to bring peace, but a sword.” The sword that I came to bring is the sword of truth that cleaves the real from the unreal. That sword is the Christ consciousness.

(http://www.askrealjesus.com/askrealjesus/jesusanswers/byjesus/Doctrexlusiv.html )

There are really some extraordinary stuff to read here....

[VenusAnnie]

WOW! That definitely sounds like him. I've asked to be used directly by God as a tool to bring what he wants to know in the world, to the world. Your message from him sounds like something I would say verbatim and that's why I went in search of finding out if I was actually channeling God's message. Even though I tend to stay away from things that say the bible says or Jesus says, etc. because it usually is something from the corrupt want that the bible was changed, I was compelled to read this. I'm glad I did and it gives me affirmation that I'm truly channeling God's message to the world. I'm definitely excited. I didn't think it was something I'd say a lot of the time and I'd always wonder if it was really him talking through me, so I'm glad I finally know. I'm still not sure if Jesus is God or if he's an ascended master. Maybe he will show me next time. I want to know that knowledge first hand and not through someone else unless it's his wish.