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embrace
15-06-2012, 04:51 AM
On some other forum I read that the algorithm behind any randomly generated output is in fact quite predictable if you are a web programmer. There is no true randomness in computers. This makes me think: how can online tarot work? When the card spread is generated by the machine, can it still work?

Quintessence
15-06-2012, 02:41 PM
There is no true randomness in the universe, period. Doesn't matter if you're talking about a program or someone shuffling. The universe isn't random, it's probabilistic and causes-effects, just like a program.

Even setting that aside, many diviners do not believe that the process of divination is random. True randomness suggests there can be no meaning to the results, and if there is no meaning to the results, we might as well not bother with any divination at all. To them, the meaningfulness of divination stems from it being synchronistic or guided by a supernatural or preternatural force.

In the end, what divinatory medium you use and feel comfortable with is always a personal choice. Plenty of people use computerized divination with no trouble. Plenty more people think it's wrong in one way or another. If it works for you, use it. I'd keep it that simple, personally.

Sybilline
15-06-2012, 07:52 PM
Online tarots give me so many vague 8-10 letter words that can be interpreted in so many ways........ XD

NekoTheCat
15-06-2012, 10:10 PM
i only try the online tarot for fun.
it definitely not random..
while there is no pure randomness out there, i believe that a shuffle and a spread a hum will give you is more random than the one generated by a machine ;)

eyalec
25-07-2012, 11:58 AM
This is only partly correct. There are different kinds of algorithms to produce random numbers, which are used in many practices such as encryption or gambling. A web developer will unlikely be able to decrypt sophisticated random numbers algorithms.
When it comes to tarot, simple web applications that actually do “shuffle” the cards (some use simpler techniques) often use a computer based random method that is based on the inner clock. Indeed, this isn’t 100% random, but it can’t be predictable by a human and will suffice for the purpose.
Try the tarot spread on wonderfulsoul.com/Tarot.aspx
You won’t be able to predict the card that comes out when you “stack” the deck even if you are familiar with basic programming.

Uma
25-07-2012, 12:17 PM
What is probability really? Is physics divorced from the impact of trillions of minds creating networks of intention and attention? When you make a request of tarot, you are really calling the universe into a response (same as in prayer and meditation or affirmation) and the universe is everything. Whether or not you believe in an intelligent universe - there is some kind of programming that created the law of probability. That programming is subject to the same fluctuations as mind. One view is that things happen by coincidence, but they follow certain laws of physics, another is that some great mind or collective mind chooses the response - either way the same response will come.

So for me, it makes no difference whether a computer algorithm generates this or some "other" unseen force.

cleanheart82
04-09-2012, 06:16 PM
i generally use online tarots from a website the same way that i do a magic 8 ball( i have one from childhood and still get a kick out of it, lol!). I do, however, have a tarot ap on my phone. Since i have limited knowledge about how our energies influence machines, i know that is possible. I guess what I'm trying to say is that i use my ap more seriously than i do the website, but my actual decks trump all that stuff. i have gotten some accurate readings out of my phone ap, but i never ask things that i would consider serious. i woulf like to say that I'm still testing it.




clean heart

Spiritlite
05-09-2012, 02:56 AM
I have several APPS that are tarot cards, and I actually after a while found them pretty right on. But I've never received accurate readings from a website...kind of strange.
Spiritlite.

Inna0
09-09-2012, 09:34 PM
Well, I believe in them. Maybe it's silly, but here's why-in some readings, there are cards that tell you how you see
or feel about a situation or person, and those happened to be true. It's not that I convince myself that it's correct,
but they really described how I felt. Also, I used online tarot last summer for something,and it all happened to be true.
Now when I use it, it gives the most probable outcome, that I expect to happen, and it's true most of the time.
Even if it was "random", there is a reason why it turned out to be that way. Not like it's any less random when I shuffle
them with my hand.

shadedragon
10-09-2012, 03:03 AM
:) well, to put it one way, when I do readings online, a while back I got three drawing of the Exact same cards, for the same person. Considering the chances of this happening practically consecutively, and a ten card drawing at that, (the reason I say practically consecutive is that I did a different question for the person, get a different card layout then go back to the question and got the same ten cards, same order, often I normally get very similar cards in this situation so it was pretty unique) I think the Universe has that non random, non chance as is more based on the energy input, with the law of attraction and aspectual understanding. I get a great deal of wonderful readings for myself and others out of online cards, the site I use is @ http://www.facade.com/tarot

Aquarian
12-09-2012, 05:29 PM
On some other forum I read that the algorithm behind any randomly generated output is in fact quite predictable if you are a web programmer. There is no true randomness in computers. This makes me think: how can online tarot work? When the card spread is generated by the machine, can it still work?
Depends whether you can access the full range of possibilities, ideally with an equal chance.

Consider the short window of time you might choose to instigate the reading. You might for some reason or another press the button 5s earlier or later.

If the range of possible cards combination is limited over that 10s, then your state of mind during every single factor influencing when that 10s period happens will be manifesting the results. A messy reading to say the least.

I largely explain divination here:
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18873

blackraven
13-09-2012, 01:29 AM
On some other forum I read that the algorithm behind any randomly generated output is in fact quite predictable if you are a web programmer. There is no true randomness in computers. This makes me think: how can online tarot work? When the card spread is generated by the machine, can it still work?

embrace - The randomness of the generated computer program is just the case in point - random uselessness as far as I'm concerned. I have used Tarot cards, but when I've done a few online Tarot readings I've tested the sites by asking the same question repeatedly and gotten multiple answers that conflict with each other to a great degree. That is what made me a skeptic of online Tarot. It actually got me even thinking about the randomness of the flipping of cards on a given actual Tarot reading. It can yield different results as well. To be honest, I've migrated away from Tarot both online and in person for that reason unless I'm looking for pure entertainment and not answers to serious questions. I trust my higher consciousness/intuition for answers to life's serious issues, not Tarot.

Blackraven

Belle
27-09-2012, 08:06 PM
But - surely this is a call for the skeptics. Do you believe it's a turn of a friendly card and pure random or that your energy is connected to which card is chosen. Do you believe that on computer programs, you shuffle and nothing happens and that when you flick through the cards - it's just a nice thing to believe but that the card has already been randomly generated. And if it is already randomly generated perhaps there is a chance that you at that moment were drawn to that card.

Now, I don't know where I would draw the line. My problem with it the computer programming is lack of intepretation.

shadedragon
28-09-2012, 02:39 AM
Lack of interpretation can be solved by research or gradual accumation of knowledge on the cards. I started from scratch with the online tarot. After you read the description interpreted differently for each deck used, based on the card you begin to learn more and more about how to interpret the cards, eventually where you form your own conclusions just on looking at the cards drawn, without the descriptions, which you can always incorperate as well. :)

Belle
29-09-2012, 07:11 AM
That's a good point shadedragon, it's very easy (for me) to be lazy to just read the words and not use my intuition.

I was wondering tho, this issue of alogrithms - how much greater and more powerful is the universe to them?

annabelle239
17-12-2012, 09:00 AM
i thought they did at first but now i think nope. plus they can be very negative. i'm staying away from them.if i really want a tarot reading,i'll use my actual deck. havent had bad experience with that ever. online ones are harder to interpret as well and can have you overanalyzing imo.

annabelle239
17-12-2012, 09:05 AM
i agree with the person who said they are staying away from them in person as well.i remember erin pavlina once said on her website that they are limiting. while i think they can be good every once in awhile,they can affirm for you a little or give you a good sign,i think it's best when it's just that.

tealily
22-12-2012, 11:57 AM
I recall flipping through a tarot book once, I think it talked about Jung's theories? And how even if you pick cards 'at random', how can you say there wasn't a purpose behind these?

It gave the impression that even if you're not concentrating hard at all, any cards you pick out at random will be meaningful in a reading. I've only just started reading for other people, and I certainly don't feel like I'm concentrating very hard on picking 'special' cards... lol. To me it just feels like it's at random.

But I think intuition can be very useful in drawing links between cards. Now that's an area your average human still does way, way better than a computer.

kindheart
29-12-2012, 03:54 AM
I'm not usually a big fan of online tarot, I've never found them all that accurate... however, I came across this one by accident and tried it, and was pleasantly surprised by its accuracy (at least, the one time I tried it haha). I also very much like their tips on the side :)

I'd like you guys' input! How is this one for you? Have fun! :)
http://www.free-tarot-reading.net/free.php

travelgirlfl
29-12-2012, 04:30 AM
I'm no expert on any account, on using tarot or programming computers & things related.

I have limited experience with online tarot, but I THINK I used to use Lotus Tarot? It's been awhile, can't quite recall. Can't really recall if I thought it was accurate or not, either, because I've never really figured out if tarot reads reflects my own feelings and thoughts on the topic or brings insights/messages from a spirit/energy or whatever beyond me. I have more experience with my own paper card deck, but again, no level of mastery.

But I digress...

My thoughts on online tarot is that, at least in the one I used, though the cards were shuffled by the software XX amount of times that I chose, the deck was then laid out & *I selected the cards* for whatever type of spread I'd chosen...so even if the 'shuffling' isn't random (maybe it is, or not), I control the card selection, which is then guided by whatever the user believes is the influential factor in using any tools of divination. In which case, it's really not different from presuming that that same influential factor that exerts itself in the physical shuffling and selecting of cards in our hands would do thus online.

That's my 2 cents.

Lynn
29-12-2012, 05:56 AM
Hello

I have had some good results with the random computer generated pulling of cards. Its not that much different than laying out the whole deck and pulling one's

What is a bit more of a grey area is where one does not pull the cards but there are pre done questions one gets to choose.

Example "the card of the day" when ye click on something like that one is open to what ever the message is there and well does one not read a lot into that ????

Lynn

Belle
29-12-2012, 06:44 AM
I have a beautiful set of osho cards on my phone and whilst they might be randomly generated, my card of the day always makes me think for a minute or three. But, Osho is a thoughtful deck.