Non duality = Entropy?

[Freekre8]

And isn't entropy the opposite of order?
(order and chaos)

So what I mean isn't non duality still part of duality?
(After all the non part in non duality represents the 0 in the binary between duality and non duality)

Not that any of this matters.
Here have some entropy:
(*";×÷(*;#$"(*;"£$*×*; #$(*;*£ouuoboj ¥€; ¥*; bij £€ iub£*;; €¥*(;€¥; €¥; €¥; €¥;obuuob; €¥kjbbjk (;*(;*bjkbkj; ¥€bjo (d'j (g^r5h7*k ₩0
Although if you anylize that gibberish you'll most likely find some sort of order.
Sometimes the numbers are just so big that you can't see the patterns, but they are there!!!!
#YouCantPossiblyComprahend xD

[shivatar]

And isn't entropy the opposite of order?
(order and chaos)

So what I mean isn't non duality still part of duality?
(After all the non part in non duality represents the 0 in the binary between duality and non duality)

Not that any of this matters.
Here have some entropy:
(*";×÷(*;#$"(*;"£$*×*; #$(*;*£ouuoboj ¥€; ¥*; bij £€ iub£*;; €¥*(;€¥; €¥; €¥; €¥;obuuob; €¥kjbbjk (;*(;*bjkbkj; ¥€bjo (d'j (g^r5h7*k ₩0
Although if you anylize that gibberish you'll most likely find some sort of order.
Sometimes the numbers are just so big that you can't see the patterns, but they are there!!!!
#YouCantPossiblyComprahend xD

Non-duality is not a part of duality.

If you want confirmation go google someone more eloquent than me. I've read a few articles before and they explain it pretty well that non-duality is something transcendent that is beyond duality.

[r6r6]

There exists only order with a finite, occupied space Universe.

Chaos is superficial resultant of mind/intellect/concept not finding the underlying order to the finite, occupied space Universe.

The closet we come to entropic disorder is in the seemingly, semi-orderly occurrence of prime numbers.

Six plus or minus one is where all prime numbers that exist, will be found, with 2 and being the exception.

This latter can be expressed in semi-2D Euclidean wave pattern, or in hexagonal set of six radii{ radial lines }.

Non-duality is a concept that does not exist ergo moot and irrelevant to mind/intellect,

macro-infinite non-occupied space, and

finite, occupied space Universe aka Uni-V-erse....( ^v )( v^ )

[shivatar]

I'm glad you have your beliefs so well thought out. However I don't believe the universe is finite.


There exists only order with a finite, occupied space Universe.

Chaos is superficial resultant of mind/intellect/concept not finding the underlying order to the finite, occupied space Universe.

The closet we come to entropic disorder is in the seemingly, semi-orderly occurrence of prime numbers.

Six plus or minus one is where all prime numbers that exist, will be found, with 2 and being the exception.

This latter can be expressed in semi-2D Euclidean wave pattern, or in hexagonal set of six radii{ radial lines }.

Non-duality is a concept that does not exist ergo moot and irrelevant to mind/intellect,

macro-infinite non-occupied space, and

finite, occupied space Universe aka Uni-V-erse....( ^v )( v^ )

[r6r6]

However I don't believe the universe is finite.
Finite = having integrity

Infinite = non-integral

If my concepts/scenarios, as presented, exist, then we have at minimum, the duality of macro-infinite non-occupied space and finite occupied space.

"U"niverse does not get any simpler than this dual set.

( ^v )( v^ )

( * )( * )

( * ) I ( * )

r6

[Freekre8]

I'm glad you have your beliefs so well thought out. However I don't believe the universe is finite.

You make a good point, but hypothetical infinities don't serve us well here on earth :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

OR perhaps they do, I have often thought ignorance may be evolutionary advantageous ^^

[shivatar]

Finite = having integrity

Infinite = non-integral

If my concepts/scenarios, as presented, exist, then we have at minimum, the duality of macro-infinite non-occupied space and finite occupied space.

"U"niverse does not get any simpler than this dual set.

( ^v )( v^ )

( * )( * )

( * ) I ( * )

r6

I have no idea what you mean. Is it possible for you to explain things any simpler?

[r6r6]

I have no idea what you mean. Is it possible for you to explain things any simpler?
The word finite is in dictionary

So is the words having and integrity.

Start there, for starters. Then move on to next words. There all in english dictionary. IF you still cant figure out what those words mean I can try to assist you.

r6

[shivatar]

You make a good point, but hypothetical infinities don't serve us well here on earth :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

OR perhaps they do, I have often thought ignorance may be evolutionary advantageous ^^

Ignorance can be a really hurtful word when used like that -_-

So having different beliefs than yours is an evolutionary advantage?
I'm inclined to say yes, diversity certainly has it's advantages.

However are those beliefs consisting of ignorance as you use it, I say no.

In essence, you have your way of looking and understanding the world. I have mine. If we are going to have a discussion, an open minded discussion, then we can't begin by saying "my beliefs are the only true ones, yours are not".

If we can't move beyond the foundational understanding that neither of our beliefs are proven, that they are both ways of making sense of a mysterious world, then we are likely to just butt heads and trade insults, rather than grow intellectually.



It depends on what measure of success we want to use in determining what serves us well on earth.

Is the measure of a "good belief" how well it serves us on earth? Or is it more important how well a belief helps us serve others?
What does it mean to do well on earth? Does it mean to be more social? More wealthy? healthier? happier? To have more inner peace? More civilized? More spiritual? More wise? A mix of everything?

If it's about inner peace, then it doesn't have to be rational. One of the most rational things to us is to think "I'm gonna die someday! I need to live according to that truth!". And so we go around constantly devoid of inner peace. However if we can somehow overcome that obstacle, usually done through non-rational thinking or beliefs, then we can suddenly experience a profound level of inner peace.

[shivatar]

If my concepts/scenarios, as presented, exist, then we have at minimum, the duality of macro-infinite non-occupied space and finite occupied space.

"U"niverse does not get any simpler than this dual set.



Was more interested in a further explanation of this. not your sarcasm -_-

[r6r6]

Was more interested in a further explanation of this. not your sarcasm -_-

Huh? Shivatar, you appear to be bent out of shape "sarcasm" and I have no idea why you taking this stance.

It appears to me that you have taken offense unnecessarily{ without due cause }.

r6

[Freekre8]

Ignorance can be a really hurtful word when used like that -_-


Sorry this wasn't directed at you it was just an honest thought xD
I was mostly just thinking If you look at the world with untainted eyes your gonna end up nihilistic and basically do nothing productive or even care?

[Freekre8]

Finite = having integrity

Infinite = non-integral


This is probably the best explanation ever xD
Basically things fall apart in the realms of infinity

[r6r6]

This is probably the best explanation ever xD
Basically things fall apart in the realms of infinity
Realm is probably not the best word to use as it does not real-ly correlate to infinite. That is because there exists only two types or scenarios involving infinite.

1} Macro-infinite non-occupied space, and,

2} metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concepts of infinite ex concept of infinite set of numbers, apples, dogs, peanuts, fermions, bosones etc.

Real = real estate{ ex land }

Real = physical/energy ^v /\/\/

Real = fermions, bosons and aggregate collection thereof. imo

Real = occupied space 'things' that which we can quantise ergo observe via a finite measurement.

Real > Reality > Realm

https://nortonsafe.search.ask.com/web?q=realm&o=APN11918&prt=NSBU&chn=1000&geo=US&ver=22.10.1.10&locale=en_US&guid=56F6C6D3-C230-11E6-AD97-00266C8CF4B6&tpr=111&gct=sb&qsrc=2869&doi=2017-09-17



Realm

a royal domain; kingdom: the realm of England.


2.

the region, sphere, or domain within which anything occurs, prevails, or dominates: the realm of dreams.



3.

the special province or field of something or someone:

[Freekre8]

It was a metaphor/who cares xD

[LibraIndigo]

The idea of non duality is a trick to trap us.

The only people I hear say they dont beleive in duality are the people who do f_ed up sht.

This is the realm of cause and effect

[shivatar]

Sorry this wasn't directed at you it was just an honest thought xD
I was mostly just thinking If you look at the world with untainted eyes your gonna end up nihilistic and basically do nothing productive or even care?

There's always the possibility.

I hear a lot of people go through stages of ego inflation wherein they believe they've had a mystical experience and believe they are looking at the world with untainted eyes but it's not true. A lot of times what happens is a person has a partial awakening, or a full awakening for a short period of time, and mistakes that for the real thing (which is similar in intensity and effect, but lasts longer and is more stable).

[shivatar]

Huh? Shivatar, you appear to be bent out of shape "sarcasm" and I have no idea why you taking this stance.

It appears to me that you have taken offense unnecessarily{ without due cause }.

r6

I would never tell someone who asked me a direct question to go look elsewhere, then come back to me to continue the conversation at a later point.

It's just rude. Maybe not where you are from but where I'm from it is.

And the words, having, integrity, finite.... do you honestly think I don't know what those words mean?

HAVING? you really think I don't know what the word HAVING means?

then you have the gall to tell me that I'm bent out of shape over nothing...

you basically tried to treat me as if I have a 5th graders intelligence, just because I asked you to put your ideas into a more simplistic form.



I wanted to know why you think what you do, and that would have came from a conversation.
If I wanted to know what you think, I could have simply looked up the terms.

[r6r6]

Libra, you have a differrent approach from most :wink: Love that signature. r6

The idea of non duality is a trick to trap us.
The only people I hear say they dont beleive in duality are the people who do f_ed up sht.
This is the realm of cause and effect

[Shivani Devi]

I have been trying to gather my thoughts enough to make a coherent reply to this one.

Duality and Non-Duality are both subjectively and perceptually experiential.

From Non-Duality the Duality issues forth and also through Duality, Non-Duality can be found as the primal impetus.

The only way I can explain it, is by reverting back and falling back on my tantric teachings.

Shiva manifests as Shakti, yet only through Shakti is Shiva known.

This means that Duality is as much a part of Non-Duality as Non-Duality is a part of Duality.

In the end, they totally negate each other in the awareness of the absolute, which is neither Dual or Non-Dual as that which transcends its own non-existence becomes the very essence of existence itself.

The entire conundrum of descriptive vernacular dissolves within the actualisation of state-specificity.

[LibraIndigo]

I dunno I am a fan of simplicity. Maybe there is no duality in the big picture but we aren't the big picture.

We aren't allowed for take guns on airplanes. What happens if we do? We go to jail. Federal agents take guns on airplanes all the time.

We arent federal agents, we're civilians.

I'm not a federal agent so I'm gonna follow the rules

and not take my gun on the airplane.

[Shivani Devi]

I dunno I am a fan of simplicity. Maybe there is no duality in the big picture but we aren't the big picture.

We aren't allowed for take guns on airplanes. What happens if we do? We go to jail. Federal agents take guns on airplanes all the time.

We arent federal agents, we're civilians.

I'm not a federal agent so I'm gonna follow the rules

and not take my gun on the airplane.For the sake of simplicity.

There is no duality and no non-duality as both are only relative mental concepts within the frame of that 'big picture'.

However, I am not here to convince you otherwise as to your own viewpoint and I fully respect it.

Suffice to say, I have also done my fair share of "f_ed up sht". :smile:

[Joe Mc]

"""""""""""""""""

[Freekre8]

I hear a lot of people go through stages of ego inflation wherein they believe they've had a mystical experience and believe they are looking at the world with untainted eyes but it's not true. A lot of times what happens is a person has a partial awakening, or a full awakening for a short period of time, and mistakes that for the real thing (which is similar in intensity and effect, but lasts longer and is more stable).

Slightly off topic now I know but I was thinking how spirituality has been around for like ever?
But most people aren't spiritual and if spirituality was really so advantageous wouldn't everybody be spiritual right now?
Like spirituality is almost like losing touch with your primal instincts in favour of higher truths?

[r6r6]

I have no idea what you mean. Is it possible for you to explain things any simpler?
Ive laid out my cosmic heirarchy in many threads around here over the years, and the primary set of cosmic threes from it in many other threads. My previous-- stated again below ---is pretty simple duality set and only involves the only two primary kinds of space.

Finite = having integrity

Infinite = non-integral

If my concepts/scenarios, as presented, exist, then we have at minimum, the duality of macro-infinite non-occupied space and finite occupied space.

"U"niverse does not get any simpler than this dual set.

( ^v )( v^ )

( * )( * )

( * ) I ( * )

"U"niverse: The Cosmic Hierarchy
....1a} metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concept ergo concepts of God, Universe, Space, Concepts etc.....
........spirit-1 aka spirit-of-intent........

-----line---of---demarcation---------------------------------------------------

...1b} macro-infinite non-occupied space aka metaphysical-2

....1c} finite, occupied space Universe aka UniVerse

2) Universe: Occupied Space aka God, Cosmos, UniVerse etc....

....2a} fermions and bosons
......aka observed physical/reality as observed time aka spirit-2.........

......2b} gravity
...........aka quasi-physical or metaphysical-3 and spirit-3......

......2c} dark energy
.........aka quasi-physical or metaphysical-4 and spirit-4...........
================================

Here is a link to more twoness type stuff.
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=105282

I have other links to many other threads that are some of the same above or related directly or tangentally.

Here is a line{ ( } and has at minimum two parts concave and convex.

R6

[LibraIndigo]

Slightly off topic now I know but I was thinking how spirituality has been around for like ever?
But most people aren't spiritual and if spirituality was really so advantageous wouldn't everybody be spiritual right now?
Like spirituality is almost like losing touch with your primal instincts in favour of higher truths?
Maybe most of the people who found spirituality moved on to other places...and the rest of us flunkies are still here

[Freekre8]

Maybe most of the people who found spirituality moved on to other places...and the rest of us flunkies are still here

Thats very optimistic :D :D :D

[LibraIndigo]

Thats very optimistic :D :D :D

??????????

[Freekre8]

??????????
The idea that we could move onto a better place.

[LibraIndigo]

The idea that we could move onto a better place.
This is funny. I had a discussion with a Satanist on facebook. She agreed with me that there are better places, but she said however it is way too hard to get there and almost in impossible, therefore she is a Satanist . I guess to each their own

[r6r6]

Is 'simple place' better than 'complex', or vice versa?

Is a 'better place' a less complex place, or more complex place?

Little zen boat/vehicle{ less complex } is more concerned with saving the person/individual.

Big zen boat/vehicle{ more complex } is more concerning with saving humanity.

Mediation is simple.

Chanting is more complex.

Communication of concepts is more complex.

Communication of concepts, and integrating a group as cohesive whole to assemble an occupied space{ stuff } place to do all of the above inside out of rain and cold is more complex.

Universe is complex.

Humans are complex with woman being more complex than man ergo the most complex entity of Universe, barring scenarios that involve two or more humans ex Earth full of humans, in solar system in galaxy etc.

Frequency as physical/energy comes to us in two ways, lots of little bits ergo lots of smaller booms or larger set of little bits as a large/big BOOM!

Knowing this and or that, leads to understanding and understanding leads to comprehension of a greater whole.

r6

[LibraIndigo]

Is 'simple place' better than 'complex', or vice versa?

Is a 'better place' a less complex place, or more complex place?

Little zen boat/vehicle{ less complex } is more concerned with saving the person/individual.

Big zen boat/vehicle{ more complex } is more concerning with saving humanity.

Mediation is simple.

Chanting is more complex.

Communication of concepts is more complex.

Communication of concepts, and integrating a group as cohesive whole to assemble an occupied space{ stuff } place to do all of the above inside out of rain and cold is more complex.

Universe is complex.

Humans are complex with woman being more complex than man ergo the most complex entity of Universe, barring scenarios that involve two or more humans ex Earth full of humans, in solar system in galaxy etc.

Frequency as physical/energy comes to us in two ways, lots of little bits ergo lots of smaller booms or larger set of little bits as a large/big BOOM!

Knowing this and or that, leads to understanding and understanding leads to comprehension of a greater whole.

r6

Better places as in other planets and or dimensions with higher frequencies. Interestingly enough I also had this conversation with a NASA physicist that I met at a bar (yes a bar!). Being in the scientific community that he is in...it is so uncool to believe in God. He explained to me that religion is bull**** because once one starts to understand physics, what one might perceive as an "angel" or angellic being could simply being a being in a different dimension. He also believed in reincarnation but he said he believed that it had nothing to do with God and that and that it is mostly simply a part of the laws of nature that we don't understand yet. We pretty much butted heads on almost everything but we did agree on one thing, that what most people perceive as "heaven" is simply another dimension.

[Freekre8]

This is funny. I had a discussion with a Satanist on facebook. She agreed with me that there are better places, but she said however it is way too hard to get there and almost in impossible, therefore she is a Satanist . I guess to each their own

Its too hard to accend so might as well descend?
That is quite the polarization :D

[Freekre8]

Frequency as physical/energy comes to us in two ways, lots of little bits ergo lots of smaller booms or larger set of little bits as a large/big BOOM!

r6

E=mc2 a perfect example of short and too the point: with all the energy you waste on words you might do better to invest making what you say more accessible to read.
Imagine this: if you put more energy down range than you need when driving a car you get wheel spin making over exertion counter productive.
But thats just some advice take it or leave it. :tongue:

[shivatar]

Slightly off topic now I know but I was thinking how spirituality has been around for like ever?
But most people aren't spiritual and if spirituality was really so advantageous wouldn't everybody be spiritual right now?
Like spirituality is almost like losing touch with your primal instincts in favour of higher truths?

Yes spirituality has been around for practically ever. I don't have the article to link it but I remember hearing once that in a study of chimpanzees there was a rudamentary religious system. Apparently religion and spirituality isn't unique to humans.

I realize that most people are not deeply religious or spiritual, however I've found that most people have some form of basic spiritual beliefs that guide their life. For example "this is good, I need to do good things", or "God is real". It's like saying everybody has a little bit of spirituality, but only a minority are very disciplined in their practice of it.

Also the definition of spirituality is very loosely defined. Some people define spirituality as something like "the beliefs that give our life purpose". So atheism and agnosticism and even science are all spiritual systems in some way. Science especially, it gives so many people structure to how they see the world, and often people follow science as if it were a religion. I've also heard great philosophers, like Alan Watts, consider science to be a form of religion and spirituality. However he described science as "the religion of no religion".

Spirituality, at least the forms I know about, mostly tells us to be aware of things and accept them as they are. This doesn't mean rejecting one thing in favor of another that we perceive as higher.

As for advantageous, there are systems of spirituality that aim to help us live in harmony with the material world. There are systems that tell us we should not participate in the "rat race" and that we should be more focused on our inner world.

[shivatar]

Ive laid out my cosmic heirarchy in many threads around here over the years, and the primary set of cosmic threes from it in many other threads. My previous-- stated again below ---is pretty simple duality set and only involves the only two primary kinds of space.

Finite = having integrity

Infinite = non-integral

If my concepts/scenarios, as presented, exist, then we have at minimum, the duality of macro-infinite non-occupied space and finite occupied space.

"U"niverse does not get any simpler than this dual set.

( ^v )( v^ )

( * )( * )

( * ) I ( * )

"U"niverse: The Cosmic Hierarchy
....1a} metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concept ergo concepts of God, Universe, Space, Concepts etc.....
........spirit-1 aka spirit-of-intent........

-----line---of---demarcation---------------------------------------------------

...1b} macro-infinite non-occupied space aka metaphysical-2

....1c} finite, occupied space Universe aka UniVerse

2) Universe: Occupied Space aka God, Cosmos, UniVerse etc....

....2a} fermions and bosons
......aka observed physical/reality as observed time aka spirit-2.........

......2b} gravity
...........aka quasi-physical or metaphysical-3 and spirit-3......

......2c} dark energy
.........aka quasi-physical or metaphysical-4 and spirit-4...........
================================

Here is a link to more twoness type stuff.
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=105282

I have other links to many other threads that are some of the same above or related directly or tangentally.

Here is a line{ ( } and has at minimum two parts concave and convex.

R6

Thank you. This is a lot more helpful

[shivatar]

Its too hard to accend so might as well descend?
That is quite the polarization :D

From what I hear and understand it's much harder to descend.

What I would define as descension is that things become more painful, more rough and abrasive, more confusing.

What I would define as ascending is that things become more clear (but not necessarily less painful, sometimes more painful), things become simplistic and intuitive, and that there are other beings willing to help with whatever the obstacle or challenge may be.


From what I hear of Satanists, they typically describe their spiritual path as one of ascension (although they may call it a descent). However if we take the Christian viewpoint and consider satanism we would call it a descent that is full of the illusion of ascension. Also the two systems arose from each other. Satanism is based on Christianity, so naturally there is going to be enmity between the two. It's cats and dogs.


I've never traveled both paths fully so I can't speak to either. However it seems like it's more a debate of terminology than anything else.

Also if a person has come to believe they are worthy of hell and pain, as many satanistis believe, then they would feel as if descent is the right choice to make. However, is it ever the right choice to encourage harmful and negative self talk?

As a rational and stable person, if my inner dialogue tells me to punch myself in the face I tell it I'm gonna punch it in the face! I most certainly don't go "well, I guess I deserve a punch in the face." EVEN IF i feel as if I do deserve a punch in the face, I act on what I believe not what I feel.

[LibraIndigo]

From what I hear and understand it's much harder to descend.

What I would define as descension is that things become more painful, more rough and abrasive, more confusing.

What I would define as ascending is that things become more clear (but not necessarily less painful, sometimes more painful), things become simplistic and intuitive, and that there are other beings willing to help with whatever the obstacle or challenge may be.


From what I hear of Satanists, they typically describe their spiritual path as one of ascension (although they may call it a descent). However if we take the Christian viewpoint and consider satanism we would call it a descent that is full of the illusion of ascension. Also the two systems arose from each other. Satanism is based on Christianity, so naturally there is going to be enmity between the two. It's cats and dogs.


I've never traveled both paths fully so I can't speak to either. However it seems like it's more a debate of terminology than anything else.

Also if a person has come to believe they are worthy of hell and pain, as many satanistis believe, then they would feel as if descent is the right choice to make. However, is it ever the right choice to encourage harmful and negative self talk?

As a rational and stable person, if my inner dialogue tells me to punch myself in the face I tell it I'm gonna punch it in the face! I most certainly don't go "well, I guess I deserve a punch in the face." EVEN IF i feel as if I do deserve a punch in the face, I act on what I believe not what I feel.

I was really tempted to read the Satanic Bible after having a discussion with her. She seemed so sure it was the right path. However, I am not sure what types of things can be corded to me just from reading it so I decided to read about it on Wikipedia.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Bible

From simply reading briefly about it what I gather from my limited information is that their "ascension" consists of their conscious mind programming and taking control of the subconscious mind. I would say it's an ascension but a limited one where additional power and energy would have to be stolen from others. From my understanding, full ascendion is when the conscious mind allows the superconcious to program both it and the subconscious and everything becomes one.
That part about what their "ascension" is in only speculation.


http://i66.tinypic.com/11m7p0z.jpg

[LibraIndigo]

I didnt mean for the picture to be that big

[Freekre8]

I didnt mean for the picture to be that big

I have a similar viewpoint to that picture except the collective would ofc be linking more than one consciousness together, like a mountain range.

[Freekre8]

As for advantageous, there are systems of spirituality that aim to help us live in harmony with the material world. There are systems that tell us we should not participate in the "rat race" and that we should be more focused on our inner world.

I guess in small doses it gives direction and meaning.
but in higher doses its probably doesn't help, after all its the rat race that gets stuff done.
(evolutionarily speaking)

[shivatar]

I guess in small doses it gives direction and meaning.
but in higher doses its probably doesn't help, after all its the rat race that gets stuff done.
(evolutionarily speaking)

The Buddha would say something here about the middle way and not overdoing or underdoing.

There are so many different ways of interpreting the world... soo many. For some the spirtual is the ideal, for some the material (rat race) is the ideal. By ideal I mean what they imagine the ultimate reality to be. Some think that beyond life is the real deal, some believe that life is all there is.

What I'm trying to say is you need to go deep into our own spirituality and also learn by following others paths is the only way to find out for sure.