Peace.

[Iamit]

A pilgrim travelled to the temple and stood before Shiva. The warden came and said "It is our tradition not to point out feet towards Shiva". The pilgrim replied "Certainly Sir, if you will point to where Shiva is not".

From a non-dual perspective there is no peace until everything is included as Oneness manifesting, particularly the things we dont like and find unacceptable.

So although a resonance with All is One may have occurred, everything may not have been included. A clue is when you notice yourself thinking, and maybe even saying, that this or that needs to be overcome for peace to be achieved.

[Ground]

From a non-dual perspective there is no peace until everything is included as Oneness manifesting, particularly the things we dont like and find unacceptable.
That is a an expression of a rational analytical perspective (which may be based on wrong thinking), so 'From a non-dual perspective' is inappropriate.

What means 'peace'? Is it 'peace of mind' meaning 'being content and relaxed'? If so there are many people not adhering to your system of beliefs who are 'content and relaxed' independent of your concept of 'oneness'.

So although a resonance with All is One may have occurred, everything may not have been included. A clue is when you notice yourself thinking, and maybe even saying, that this or that needs to be overcome for peace to be achieved.
Well that's tricky because your doctrine quoted above may easily be understood as an exhortation to achieve or overcome due to 'there is no ... until ..., particularly the things we dont like and find unacceptable.'

[Iamit]

That is a an expression of a rational analytical perspective (which may be based on wrong thinking), so 'From a non-dual perspective' is inappropriate.

What means 'peace'? Is it 'peace of mind' meaning 'being content and relaxed'? If so there are many people not adhering to your system of beliefs who are 'content and relaxed' independent of your concept of 'oneness'.

Well that's tricky because your doctrine quoted above may easily be understood as an exhortation to achieve or overcome due to 'there is no ... until ..., particularly the things we dont like and find unacceptable.'
l
What is meant by peace is the peace of no longer feeling disconnected and the peace of feeling totally connected to all. The latter cannot happen until all is included as Oneness manifest.

The problem given to the mind to solve is the suffering of feeling disconnected. The nondual solution is that nothing needs to change for connection because Oneness is already you feeling disconnected!:).

However what also arises as a consequence is that you are therefore One with all there is! This challenges previously held views that one has found aspects of the manifestation unacceptable such as suffering and Hitler. Until all that stuff is included as Oneness manifest the initial resonance with All is One is not consolidated. This consolidation is not required for connection purposes because its already Oneness feeling that, so there is never an exortation to achieve anything for connection purposes

[FallingLeaves]

I feel like there are a lot of good descriptions of things out there, however, if I try to act on one in order to manifest the results people put barriers in the way. Personally, I think the system is rigged with pretty descriptions of things so that I will be happy to try to act on them in an effort to get things people seem to want to tell me I should like, but that people are just not going to let me have. It is very aggravating.

[Iamit]

I feel like there are a lot of good descriptions of things out there, however, if I try to act on one in order to manifest the results people put barriers in the way. Personally, I think the system is rigged with pretty descriptions of things so that I will be happy to try to act on them in an effort to get things people seem to want to tell me I should like, but that people are just not going to let me have. It is very aggravating.

One size does not seem to fit all.

Maybe the mind will find a size that fits your character. There are lots on offer. What seems the most promising so far?

[Ground]

l
What is meant by peace is the peace of no longer feeling disconnected and the peace of feeling totally connected to all. The latter cannot happen until all is included as Oneness manifest.

The problem given to the mind to solve is the suffering of feeling disconnected. The nondual solution is that nothing needs to change for connection because Oneness is already you feeling disconnected!:).

However what also arises as a consequence is that you are therefore One with all there is! This challenges previously held views that one has found aspects of the manifestation unacceptable such as suffering and Hitler. Until all that stuff is included as Oneness manifest the initial resonance with All is One is not consolidated. This consolidation is not required for connection purposes because its already Oneness feeling that, so there is never an exortation to achieve anything for connection purposes
I do not perceive 'Feeling disconnected' being negative nor do I perceive 'feeling totally connected to all' being positive.

your view is similar to buddhist view in that there is the claim of one phenomenon being utterly negative. Buddhists call it 'suffering', you call it 'Feeling disconnected'. But what buddhists call 'suffering' isn't appropriately called suffering because it isn't necessarily negative and what you call 'Feeling disconnected' isn't necessarily negative either.

Be that as it may I think your view is just an appeal to believe in what you call 'oneness' and referring to yourself it is a kind of auto-suggestion.


From my perspective - and here I am close to buddhism - feeling as such is the issue and 'feeling' here is the emotionality of liking or disliking. So it is one's emotional response towards phenomena that causes unease or emotional turmoil and therefore the contrary to peace [of mind].
In this context a kind of disconnection which then is called 'detachment' is not negative but conducive to peace.

So the fact that you are saying 'feeling disconnected' may hint at the actual issue which is just feeling as disliking.
And the fact that you are saying 'feeling totally connected to all' may hint at the actual issue which is just feeling as liking.
Feelings come and go and are utterly transient. If you are after certain feelings but reject other feelings that is an issue.

[FallingLeaves]

One size does not seem to fit all.

Maybe the mind will find a size that fits your character. There are lots on offer. What seems the most promising so far?

from what I've seen people doing with all this, I'm not sure if I even want to partake... I probably will though eventually :biggrin:

[Iamit]

from what I've seen people doing with all this, I'm not sure if I even want to partake... I probably will though eventually :biggrin:

What have you seen that is most unacceptable to you in the context you are talking about?

[FallingLeaves]

What have you seen that is most unacceptable to you in the context you are talking about?

it is like putting my hand in the fire, and everyone tells me that is a good thing to do, but to me it burns.

[Ground]

it is like putting my hand in the fire, and everyone tells me that is a good thing to do, but to me it burns.
you can be certain that you "know" better than everybody else. Actually everyone "knows" better than everybody else but most do not "know" the way how they "know" better. The objects depending on conceptuality can be very misleading and can cause (but not necessarily do cause) straying from that certainty.

[Iamit]

I do not perceive 'Feeling disconnected' being negative nor do I perceive 'feeling totally connected to all' being positive.

your view is similar to buddhist view in that there is the claim of one phenomenon being utterly negative. Buddhists call it 'suffering', you call it 'Feeling disconnected'. But what buddhists call 'suffering' isn't appropriately called suffering because it isn't necessarily negative and what you call 'Feeling disconnected' isn't necessarily negative either.

Be that as it may I think your view is just an appeal to believe in what you call 'oneness' and referring to yourself it is a kind of auto-suggestion.


From my perspective - and here I am close to buddhism - feeling as such is the issue and 'feeling' here is the emotionality of liking or disliking. So it is one's emotional response towards phenomena that causes unease or emotional turmoil and therefore the contrary to peace [of mind].
In this context a kind of disconnection which then is called 'detachment' is not negative but conducive to peace.

So the fact that you are saying 'feeling disconnected' may hint at the actual issue which is just feeling as disliking.
And the fact that you are saying 'feeling totally connected to all' may hint at the actual issue which is just feeling as liking.
Feelings come and go and are utterly transient. If you are after certain feelings but reject other feelings that is an issue.

If feeling disconnected is felt as suffering by the person feeling it thats accepted by me. Likewise with feeling positive about connection to all.

[Ground]

If feeling disconnected is felt as suffering by the person feeling it thats accepted by me. Likewise with feeling positive about connection to all.
I would prefer 'unease' because 'suffering' reminds me of this buddhist exaggeration when they use the term.

I wonder why you chose this dualism 'connected vs disconnected'.
your concept 'oneness' is a monistic concept but nevertheless you speak of 'connecting to oneness'. I mean if everything is already this 'oneness' then both, disconnecting from and connecting to is impossible.

In the translation of a text from Longchen Rabjam that I often refer to they also use the word 'oneness' but they use it as s synonym for a specific kind of 'awareness'. In contrast to you they at least explain what this word stands for and why it is applied:


Awareness - oneness - is the ground of all phenomena.
Although there is the appearance of multiplicity, to say that there is
no wavering from oneness
is to say that naturally occurring timeless awareness is
the single source.

Quoted from The Precious Treasury of The Way of Abiding, Padma Publishing 1998

So different things may be called 'one' if a common feature is focused on. I. e. a blue car and a blue shirt are 'one' considering their blueness.
Or - as in the quote - focusing on the posited 'one and only source' of phenomena different phenomena are 'one' in that they originate from the this 'one and only source'. Focusing on this 'one and only source' there is 'no wavering from oneness'.

[Iamit]

I would prefer 'unease' because 'suffering' reminds me of this buddhist exaggeration when they use the term.

I wonder why you chose this dualism 'connected vs disconnected'.
your concept 'oneness' is a monistic concept but nevertheless you speak of 'connecting to oneness'. I mean if everything is already this 'oneness' then both, disconnecting from and connecting to is impossible.

In the translation of a text from Longchen Rabjam that I often refer to they also use the word 'oneness' but they use it as s synonym for a specific kind of 'awareness'. In contrast to you they at least explain what this word stands for and why it is applied:

Quoted from The Precious Treasury of The Way of Abiding, Padma Publishing 1998

So different things may be called 'one' if a common feature is focused on. I. e. a blue car and a blue shirt are 'one' considering their blueness.
Or - as in the quote - focusing on the posited 'one and only source' of phenomena different phenomena are 'one' in that they originate from the this 'one and only source'. Focusing on this 'one and only source' there is 'no wavering from oneness'.

I speak of feeling disconnected as a state referred to by seekers that they experience themselves being in. When that discomfort is passed to the mind for a solution to be found, should the mind feel that the nondual solution is appropriate for the character it serves. it may resonate strongly enough with that idea to end the feeling of disconnection.

[iamthat]

Solutions to the idea of separation are not to be found in the mind. The mind is very limited, and no thought or feeling can lead to the realisation of Unity or Oneness. The realisation of Unity/Oneness comes about through complete surrender, the letting go of everything.

Peace.

[Iamit]

Solutions to the idea of separation are not to be found in the mind. The mind is very limited, and no thought or feeling can lead to the realisation of Unity or Oneness. The realisation of Unity/Oneness comes about through complete surrender, the letting go of everything.

Peace.

If the concept of Oneness is embraced can it be seen that it must already be Oneness manifesting as the mind?

Consider your own experience. What is it that searches on your behalf to end feeling disconnected?

[iamthat]

Hi Iamit

Fortunately I do not feel disconnected nor am I searching. My own experience is that I am everywhere and nothing is separate from me. There is one thing everywhere. This has been my daily reality for over 30 years.

Peace.

[naturesflow]

A pilgrim travelled to the temple and stood before Shiva. The warden came and said "It is our tradition not to point out feet towards Shiva". The pilgrim replied "Certainly Sir, if you will point to where Shiva is not".

From a non-dual perspective there is no peace until everything is included as Oneness manifesting, particularly the things we dont like and find unacceptable.

So although a resonance with All is One may have occurred, everything may not have been included. A clue is when you notice yourself thinking, and maybe even saying, that this or that needs to be overcome for peace to be achieved.



Yes I relate and see where your coming from. In the inclusiveness it is not about how we relate, but more notice more complete what can be included..People use all kinds of techniques to dismiss, avoid and so they are using their mind to tell themselves it is not something they need to "enter into" in any other way of their own immersion.

I see a few reasons in this way all the same. People have there own unique way of processing, they make choices based on how they process the world. They also have unique life stories that can inflict and bring about this processing style more fixated and attached. I have learned that opening my mind, letting go of myself attached to myself in this way, allowed for a more inclusive immersion of myself to notice so much more that I was holding onto not connecting to peace of being. So in this way, I open my own interconnectedness/oneness to bridge more naturally with others.

Our aversions to the external are about us too. So clearing out those parts of you in the way of being more inclusive in yourself supports a more natural extension of you into the world as that peace.

Only you know through a more conscious self inquiry whether you have attachments in yourself to those things you avoid or detach from. Hold aversion too something etc..


When there is non reaction in your body peace naturally arises as I have learned. There is no "reaction" that signals separation from yourself in the full immersion or the "inclusion"...Your aware and noticing, moving more open and clear with what is..For me that is my interconnectedness/oneness reflecting itself through all life good and bad, right and wrong however you assess it with your mind.

[Ground]

Solutions to the idea of separation are not to be found in the mind. ...
Of course because it is only an idea. If you drop the idea you have found the solution because imputed separation then has ceased to exist.

But since ideas are the product of mind to say 'solutions are not to be found in the mind' isn't quite correct because it is the mind that produces ideas or doesn't produce ideas.

[Iamit]

Yes I relate and see where your coming from. In the inclusiveness it is not about how we relate, but more notice more complete what can be included..People use all kinds of techniques to dismiss, avoid and so they are using their mind to tell themselves it is not something they need to "enter into" in any other way of their own immersion.

I see a few reasons in this way all the same. People have there own unique way of processing, they make choices based on how they process the world. They also have unique life stories that can inflict and bring about this processing style more fixated and attached. I have learned that opening my mind, letting go of myself attached to myself in this way, allowed for a more inclusive immersion of myself to notice so much more that I was holding onto not connecting to peace of being. So in this way, I open my own interconnectedness/oneness to bridge more naturally with others.

Our aversions to the external are about us too. So clearing out those parts of you in the way of being more inclusive in yourself supports a more natural extension of you into the world as that peace.

Only you know through a more conscious self inquiry whether you have attachments in yourself to those things you avoid or detach from. Hold aversion too something etc..


When there is non reaction in your body peace naturally arises as I have learned. There is no "reaction" that signals separation from yourself in the full immersion or the "inclusion"...Your aware and noticing, moving more open and clear with what is..For me that is my interconnectedness/oneness reflecting itself through all life good and bad, right and wrong however you assess it with your mind.

Yes. All I would add as a reassurance to seekers is that even if all has not been included so far, you are not disconnected from Oneness for it must be Oneness not including:) Even though you may not yet feel One with that which you reject, it is impossible for you to be disconnected from Oneness for it is Oneness rejecting!