the Separate Self

[jimrich]

One of the goals of Advaita or non-duality is to find out who is suffering, enjoying, doing, etc and it always comes down to "I am" suffering, enjoying, doing, etc. Then the question is: Who or what is this 'I' that says it's suffering or doing such and such and that is where most folks stop because they do no know how to go any further to see or know who or what this 'I' or 'me' is that suffers, and does things, etc.
In the two videos below, Rupert Spira takes his Visitors into the question of Who is hurting or suffering and gradually the Visitors come to see that the Separate Self is suffering, etc. Then Rupert gently has the visitor LOOK FOR this Separate Self and the Visitor CANNOT find it!!! Rupert does not teach the Visitor that there is NO Separate Self or even say that it does not exist. He allows the Visitors to see and discover this fact for them selves after which they are both so RELIEVED to know that the one who is suffering is not real and does not even exist and SUDDENLY the Visitor's pain and personal issues VANISH.
Both Visitors are AMAZED that the Separate, egoic Self they had always believed exists is not and never did exist! They are left as just them self, WITHOUT a false or imagined Separate Self/ego. The simple fact that there is not and never was a "hurting" separate self blows their minds even though it seems so simple and obvious once they are shown how to examine and try to FIND this non-existent self or ego and once seen that the Separate Self doesn't exist, both Visitors become EXTREMELY HAPPY.

enjoy.........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVdsVwiRTvI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq248KMOh8I

There are many more examples in Rupert's videos of how to immediately see for your self that there is NO SEPARATE SELF and there never was and you don't have to get a teacher, take up a "practice", enter and ashram, go to India, shave your head, buy an orange robe, give away all your possessions, stop eating meat, light lots of candles, meditate, pray, chant, etc. to arrive at the the instantaneous realization that there is NO SEPARATE SELF/ego, and that you are NOW FREE to live your life WITHOUT a false self (no doer).
Rupert does not MAKE this happen. You make it happen just by LOOKING.
Is there a Separate Self in, around or anywhere near you? If yes, show me it. If no ....then WHO IS SUFFERING, DOING, HAVING, BEING, FEELING, etc.????....you or something that doesn't even exist????

[shiningstars]

jimrich,

Can you please consider to stop spamming this forum with the same materials/content masked as different topics?

Here is the original discussion thread:

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=110447

shiningstars

[Ground]

One of the goals of Advaita or non-duality is to find out who is suffering, enjoying, doing, etc and it always comes down to "I am" suffering, enjoying, doing, etc. Then the question is: Who or what is this 'I' that says it's suffering or doing such and such and that is where most folks stop because they do no know how to go any further to see or know who or what this 'I' or 'me' is that suffers, and does things, etc.
In the two videos below, Rupert Spira takes his Visitors into the question of Who is hurting or suffering and gradually the Visitors come to see that the Separate Self is suffering, etc. Then Rupert gently has the visitor LOOK FOR this Separate Self and the Visitor CANNOT find it!!! Rupert does not teach the Visitor that there is NO Separate Self or even say that it does not exist. He allows the Visitors to see and discover this fact for them selves after which they are both so RELIEVED to know that the one who is suffering is not real and does not even exist and SUDDENLY the Visitor's pain and personal issues VANISH.
Both Visitors are AMAZED that the Separate, egoic Self they had always believed exists is not and never did exist! They are left as just them self, WITHOUT a false or imagined Separate Self/ego. The simple fact that there is not and never was a "hurting" separate self blows their minds even though it seems so simple and obvious once they are shown how to examine and try to FIND this non-existent self or ego and once seen that the Separate Self doesn't exist, both Visitors become EXTREMELY HAPPY.

enjoy.........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVdsVwiRTvI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq248KMOh8I

There are many more examples in Rupert's videos of how to immediately see for your self that there is NO SEPARATE SELF and there never was and you don't have to get a teacher, take up a "practice", enter and ashram, go to India, shave your head, buy an orange robe, give away all your possessions, stop eating meat, light lots of candles, meditate, pray, chant, etc. to arrive at the the instantaneous realization that there is NO SEPARATE SELF/ego, and that you are NOW FREE to live your life WITHOUT a false self (no doer).
Rupert does not MAKE this happen. You make it happen just by LOOKING.
Is there a Separate Self in, around or anywhere near you? If yes, show me it. If no ....then WHO IS SUFFERING, DOING, HAVING, BEING, FEELING, etc.????....you or something that doesn't even exist????

Man ... the idea of 'separate self' is just an invention to be able to postuale an alleged 'real' or 'true' self as an absolute. :laughing6:

But the benefit of your linguistic tricks is that they reveal very clearly the difference between Advaita view and buddhist view.

[jimrich]

LOL......shining and ground both need to form a comedy team like Lucy and Desi or mutt and jeff! Two hilarious comics!!!!

[sky]

Man ... the idea of 'separate self' is just an invention to be able to postuale an alleged 'real' or 'true' self as an absolute. :laughing6:

But the benefit of your linguistic tricks is that they reveal very clearly the difference between Advaita view and buddhist view.


' the idead of separate self is just an invention '

Just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean that is does not exist.

[Ground]

' the idead of separate self is just an invention '

Just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean that is does not exist.
So you experienced what according to jimrich does not exist? :laughing6:


There are many more examples in Rupert's videos of how to immediately see for your self that there is NO SEPARATE SELF and there never was ...

Now don't you think that it is to be questioned why to come up with a new idea in order just to conclude that there is no correspondent existent?

It is to avoid to question the existence of self why one comes up with the idea of 'separate self'. Straw man strategy. :D

[jimrich]

I'll allow you to have the last word ~ awarness :laughing6:

[sky]

So you experienced what according to jimrich does not exist? :laughing6:



Now don't you think that it is to be questioned why to come up with a new idea in order just to conclude that there is no correspondent existent?

It is to avoid to question the existence of self why one comes up with the idea of 'separate self'. Straw man strategy. :D


What is the 'Self ' What is the 'I ' ????

[A human Being]

Love Rupert Spira, Jim, thanks for the links! :smile:

[Ground]

What is the 'Self ' What is the 'I ' ????
yours or mine? :laugh:

[7luminaries]

That's because whilst we incarnate as individuated consciousness tethered momentarily to a temporal body, we nonetheless exist only in interbeing with one another and with all that is -- even whilst physically incarnated. The drops in the ocean analogy is a simple one but it works well enough.

Peace & blessings,
7L

[jimrich]

What will be, will be!
It's all happening just as you, empty phenomenon, want it to happen.
This is it and its' all you.
Enjoy...........

[sky]

What will be, will be!
It's all happening just as you, empty phenomenon, want it to happen.
This is it and its' all you.
Enjoy...........


What is your understanding of ' Empty phenomenon ' Jim ?

[jimrich]

What is your understanding of ' Empty phenomenon ' Jim ?
Sky, before stepping into the doo-doo, I googled that phrase, Empty phenomenon, to see what it means and came up with a HUGE array of articles, links, posts, sites, etc. and stopped to read a few of those extremely complicated and DEEP writings since I am not all that clear about the word: empty and not much clearer about the word: phenomena.
This article is EXTREMELY thorough and detailed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%9A%C5%ABnyat%C4%81

LOL, here’s something from a page about Buddhism…..
As a Buddhist teacher said, “It is all just empty phenomena rolling on.”

An Amazing article!
http://www.purifymind.com/PhenomenaEmpty.htm

The following was taken from an article by Joseph Goldstein…….
“When we examine our experience, though, we see that there is not some core being to whom experience refers; rather it is simply “empty phenomena rolling on.” It is “empty” in the sense that there is no one behind the arising and changing phenomena to whom they happen. A rainbow is a good example of this. We go out after a rainstorm and feel that moment of delight if a rainbow appears in the sky. Mostly, we simply enjoy the sight without investigating the real nature of what is happening. But when we look more deeply, it becomes clear that there is no “thing” called “rainbow” apart from the particular conditions of air and moisture and light. Each one of us is like that rainbow - an appearance, a magical display, arising out of our various elements of mind and body.” ~ By Joseph Goldstein on no-self
Source: http://sharanam.tumblr.com/post/660317364/joseph-goldstein-on-no-self

jim: There is so much at google that it could take months to go through it all and maybe never understand that interesting phrase so, for me it means:

"Empty", i.e., indescribable or lacking explainable characteristics or unknowable, …"phenomena", i.e., whatever appears or is happening, manifestation, Isness, This, forms and conditions, presence, being, It, god(s) My simplest understanding is: the indescribable or ineffable Isness.
And as a personal experience, I'd say it means: I surrender!
And this understanding of or personal response to that phrase may change at any moment as I read some more of those dramatic but extremely deep and complicated articles.

When some scholarly, heady folks came to Ramana Maharshi to ARGUE with him about their “knowledge”, beliefs and complicated concepts, he often warned his followers to avoid these complicated and USELESS arguments about spirituality/metaphysics and just stick with the simple truth that each of us can find within our self by looking for and at our own being or self.
The basic question: Who/what am I? can and will cut to the bottom of all of these deep and tiresome, technical mind games to explain the unexplainable and LIBERATE the Seeker by seeing exactly who and what is looking and that the Seeker already is, was and always will be: empty phenomena (rolling on, i.e., existing eternally).
So, sky, what is your understanding of that phrase? :rolleyes:

[God-Like]

What is the 'Self ' What is the 'I ' ????

How I understand it ..

The Self is the ocean . The Self is the wave . The wave refers to I am the ocean or I am the wave (or both) . Self relates to itself as the wave . Self cannot relate to Self as the ocean . To deny the wave is to deny the ocean for they are the same .

That's why renouncing the Self aspect of I am self is not unifying .

It is about embracing and unification, not cutting bit parts off or casting the ego aside .

One has to know the wave as the ocean to know the ocean .


x daz x